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Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 20th 18, 02:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,507
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the whole
long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit that as
a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #2  
Old March 20th 18, 05:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On 3/20/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the whole
long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit that as
a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?


Well, my favorite map is a map.

I'm lucky that AAA issues a special "Northeast Ohio" map. It's at a
relatively large scale (1" = 3.5 miles or so) and shows almost all
roads, down to the gravel lanes in Amish country to the north.

I've also got two ancient sets of the bicycle maps put out by the state
back in the 1980s. These are on waterproof paper and show a recommended
road every five miles or so, sort of a rough grid of recommendations for
touring cyclists. I knew the DOT official in charge of generating these
maps back then. She just hired college students for the summer and had
them search data bases showing traffic count and road width for paved
roads. IOW there was little or no on-the-ground testing; but I've found
they still work pretty well.

I have collections of county maps. If I'm heading out on a long ride,
I'll throw the appropriate ones into my bike bag. The three above maps
cover most of my long-distance day ride explorations.

I led a team that produced a bike map for our two county area. We did do
a lot of on-the-road ride testing. The idea was to rate the well-known
or major roads, and to hopefully find nice "beginner" streets and roads
on a roughly one mile grid. I sometimes throw that in my bike bag for
rides to unfamiliar parts of the city.

A few years ago, I planned a cross-Ohio tour for my wife and I plus a
friend by using one of these books:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/575993 It worked well.

I've also referred to USGS maps to plan rides and tours. The 1:24000
series is so detailed it shows individual buildings in less dense areas.
It also shows things like fence lines, railroads, etc. and are quite
beautiful, IMO. I have four of them that cover territory surrounding our
house mounted on a wall for reference or inspiration for local rides.
And I've used the 1:250,000 series to choose roads for rides out of the
area. I appreciate the contour information, especially if I'm going to
try a long ride into a hilly area, like to Pittsburgh.

Trouble is, I think USGS maps are no longer available in paper. I
treasure the ones I have.

If you're setting out on a long tour, the Adventure Cycling maps are
good, as long as you're willing to stick to their routes. We ran into
complications on one tour when we deviated from the route and had a hard
time finding anything more detailed than a state map.

Of course, I'm talking about riding on (shudder!) roads! With CARS!! ;-)

I'm lucky to live in a part of the country that was settled long before
there were cars. Because of that, we have a wonderful network of country
roads. And I'm pretty good at telling, from a map, which roads will have
less traffic (which I prefer). I also use clues like streams and
railroads to find less hilly routes (which I also prefer).

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old March 20th 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,507
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On 2018-03-20 10:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/20/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the
whole long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit
that as a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?


Well, my favorite map is a map.

I'm lucky that AAA issues a special "Northeast Ohio" map. It's at a
relatively large scale (1" = 3.5 miles or so) and shows almost all
roads, down to the gravel lanes in Amish country to the north.

I've also got two ancient sets of the bicycle maps put out by the state
back in the 1980s. These are on waterproof paper and show a recommended
road every five miles or so, sort of a rough grid of recommendations for
touring cyclists. I knew the DOT official in charge of generating these
maps back then. She just hired college students for the summer and had
them search data bases showing traffic count and road width for paved
roads. IOW there was little or no on-the-ground testing; but I've found
they still work pretty well.

I have collections of county maps. If I'm heading out on a long ride,
I'll throw the appropriate ones into my bike bag. The three above maps
cover most of my long-distance day ride explorations.

I led a team that produced a bike map for our two county area. We did do
a lot of on-the-road ride testing. The idea was to rate the well-known
or major roads, and to hopefully find nice "beginner" streets and roads
on a roughly one mile grid. I sometimes throw that in my bike bag for
rides to unfamiliar parts of the city.

A few years ago, I planned a cross-Ohio tour for my wife and I plus a
friend by using one of these books:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/575993 It worked well.

I've also referred to USGS maps to plan rides and tours. The 1:24000
series is so detailed it shows individual buildings in less dense areas.
It also shows things like fence lines, railroads, etc. and are quite
beautiful, IMO. I have four of them that cover territory surrounding our
house mounted on a wall for reference or inspiration for local rides.
And I've used the 1:250,000 series to choose roads for rides out of the
area. I appreciate the contour information, especially if I'm going to
try a long ride into a hilly area, like to Pittsburgh.

Trouble is, I think USGS maps are no longer available in paper. I
treasure the ones I have.

If you're setting out on a long tour, the Adventure Cycling maps are
good, as long as you're willing to stick to their routes. We ran into
complications on one tour when we deviated from the route and had a hard
time finding anything more detailed than a state map.

Of course, I'm talking about riding on (shudder!) roads! With CARS!! ;-)


Or course, I do not want maps where many bike paths and most of all
singletrack routes are missing.


I'm lucky to live in a part of the country that was settled long before
there were cars. Because of that, we have a wonderful network of country
roads. And I'm pretty good at telling, from a map, which roads will have
less traffic (which I prefer). I also use clues like streams and
railroads to find less hilly routes (which I also prefer).


Here in the Wild West you need to sometimes use satellite view to find
hidden gems among the trails, especially in the true wilderness. That's
a bit tough with paper maps. Also, I'd like to occasionally zoom in and
find out what's cooking at a particular location. That way I found more
gems such as this:

https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...4GsFBSCA/o.jpg

I had no clue that there was a brewery with tap room almost on the El
Dorado Trail (singletrack). These guys don't advertize much. One day I
was looking for connector roads I could use up there and a "Brewery" tab
showed up ... WHAT?! ... zoomed in some more ... Yeehaw!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #4  
Old March 20th 18, 08:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On 3/20/2018 2:09 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 10:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/20/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the
whole long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit
that as a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?


Well, my favorite map is a map.

I'm lucky that AAA issues a special "Northeast Ohio" map. It's at a
relatively large scale (1" = 3.5 miles or so) and shows almost all
roads, down to the gravel lanes in Amish country to the north.

I've also got two ancient sets of the bicycle maps put out by the state
back in the 1980s. These are on waterproof paper and show a recommended
road every five miles or so, sort of a rough grid of recommendations for
touring cyclists. I knew the DOT official in charge of generating these
maps back then. She just hired college students for the summer and had
them search data bases showing traffic count and road width for paved
roads. IOW there was little or no on-the-ground testing; but I've found
they still work pretty well.

I have collections of county maps. If I'm heading out on a long ride,
I'll throw the appropriate ones into my bike bag. The three above maps
cover most of my long-distance day ride explorations.

I led a team that produced a bike map for our two county area. We did do
a lot of on-the-road ride testing. The idea was to rate the well-known
or major roads, and to hopefully find nice "beginner" streets and roads
on a roughly one mile grid. I sometimes throw that in my bike bag for
rides to unfamiliar parts of the city.

A few years ago, I planned a cross-Ohio tour for my wife and I plus a
friend by using one of these books:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/575993* It worked well.

I've also referred to USGS maps to plan rides and tours. The 1:24000
series is so detailed it shows individual buildings in less dense areas.
It also shows things like fence lines, railroads, etc. and are quite
beautiful, IMO. I have four of them that cover territory surrounding our
house mounted on a wall for reference or inspiration for local rides.
And I've used the 1:250,000 series to choose roads for rides out of the
area. I appreciate the contour information, especially if I'm going to
try a long ride into a hilly area, like to Pittsburgh.

Trouble is, I think USGS maps are no longer available in paper. I
treasure the ones I have.

If you're setting out on a long tour, the Adventure Cycling maps are
good, as long as you're willing to stick to their routes. We ran into
complications on one tour when we deviated from the route and had a hard
time finding anything more detailed than a state map.

Of course, I'm talking about riding on (shudder!) roads! With CARS!!
;-)


Or course, I do not want maps where many bike paths and most of all
singletrack routes are missing.


I'm lucky to live in a part of the country that was settled long before
there were cars. Because of that, we have a wonderful network of country
roads. And I'm pretty good at telling, from a map, which roads will have
less traffic (which I prefer). I also use clues like streams and
railroads to find less hilly routes (which I also prefer).


Here in the Wild West you need to sometimes use satellite view to find
hidden gems among the trails, especially in the true wilderness. That's
a bit tough with paper maps. Also, I'd like to occasionally zoom in and
find out what's cooking at a particular location. That way I found more
gems such as this:

https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...4GsFBSCA/o.jpg

I had no clue that there was a brewery with tap room almost on the El
Dorado Trail (singletrack). These guys don't advertize much. One day I
was looking for connector roads I could use up there and a "Brewery" tab
showed up ... WHAT?! ... zoomed in some more ... Yeehaw!


Well, I'm not surprised my advice wouldn't work for you.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old March 20th 18, 11:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,887
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 07:57:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.


True. Google maps are sent as "tiles" which have all the text
imbedded in the image.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the whole
long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit that as
a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.


I haven't checked but is Open Cycle Map any different or better?
https://www.opencyclemap.org

Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?


How about these?
http://www.eldoradobikemap.com/applications/10/embed#10/38.7471/-120.5873

https://www.traillink.com/trail/el-dorado-trail/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #6  
Old March 20th 18, 11:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,507
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On 2018-03-20 16:22, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 07:57:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.


True. Google maps are sent as "tiles" which have all the text
imbedded in the image.


That means they really botched it.


Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the whole
long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit that as
a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.


I haven't checked but is Open Cycle Map any different or better?
https://www.opencyclemap.org


Same, the whole El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. It is an
official trail, with signs and all. Also, when I keed in "USA" it didn't
find it, had to scroll across the ocean. It started out above the UK so
maybe they still see us as a colony :-)


Mapquest isn't great either anymore. It auto-fills nonsensical stuff
into the search field and so on.

Those among you not using GPS, what do thee consult for cycling maps
outside these three main ones?


How about these?
http://www.eldoradobikemap.com/applications/10/embed#10/38.7471/-120.5873


That is a little better but lacks descriptors such as trail names. It
has the El Dorado Trail so people would probably find it with that. On
the American River South Fork Trail people would get lost near Magnolia
and Cronan Ranch though because you really need to know the trail names
there.


https://www.traillink.com/trail/el-dorado-trail/


Requires registration, password and all that. Why do people do this?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #7  
Old March 21st 18, 12:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,887
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:56:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
https://www.traillink.com/trail/el-dorado-trail/

Requires registration, password and all that. Why do people do this?


For money, of course.

I just tried Bing maps. No trails.

This one requires registration but no fees:
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/california/el-dorado-trail-from-smithflat

Yet another:
http://eldoradotrail.com/trail-map/

Do you want a map for Windoze or for Android?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #8  
Old March 21st 18, 12:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,887
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:34:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

If you have a Garmin map display thing:
https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/696/
https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/53
https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/ca

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #9  
Old March 21st 18, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,071
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 07:57:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The only Google service I used until recently was Googe maps. However,
now they have made the font so small that it has become almost
unreadable and to me, therefore, useless on any of my computers. From
what I read in online searches that cannot be corrected by the user
because it is supposedly rendered as graphics.


True. Google maps are sent as "tiles" which have all the text
imbedded in the image.

Open Street Map is lacking a lot of information. For example, the whole
long El Dorado Trail singletrack is missing. Yeah, one can edit that as
a user but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.


I haven't checked but is Open Cycle Map any different or better?
https://www.opencyclemap.org


I just took a look at my neighborhood. It looks just like the cycling
layer in openstreetmap, and has the same problem: no highway numbers.
Many of the numbered state highways here are perfectly reasonable for
cycling, being cobbled together out of surface streets. The street
names tend to change frequently, so highway numbers are quite helpful
for navigation. The limited access freeways are not at all suitable for
cycling, but they are still some of the most reliable landmarks
available.
  #10  
Old March 21st 18, 02:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,507
Default Better map service for cycling than Google Maps?

On 2018-03-20 17:34, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:56:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
https://www.traillink.com/trail/el-dorado-trail/

Requires registration, password and all that. Why do people do this?


For money, of course.

I just tried Bing maps. No trails.

This one requires registration but no fees:
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/california/el-dorado-trail-from-smithflat

Yet another:
http://eldoradotrail.com/trail-map/


Same thing, just a few dashed brown lines without any trail names. It's
ok to find a general area where trails are but not for orientation.


Do you want a map for Windoze or for Android?


Windows. I don't have a smart phone yet because I don't see much use for it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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