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14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 9th 17, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 2:56 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that
idea.

12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are
electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.

No, I don't have electronics on my bike except my garmin and
after the bomb, I figure I won't need that.
But it's been a while since I've seen a car without an
electronic ignition.


A matchbook and some meatware are sufficient for setting
mechanical breaker points.


I know. I used to carry points, rotor and condenser in my glove box. But
that was with a '69 Camaro with a 283. Long time ago.


I don't remember how but I had a '72 Camaro 350 SS. After I also had a '68 Mustang 289.
Ads
  #32  
Old May 9th 17, 03:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On 5/8/2017 2:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but they still work almost as well as new.



The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work nearly as well as any of the new stuff today.


That's true only for certain values of "not work nearly as well," and
for certain amounts of persnicketiness.

There are "princess and pea" types who claim to detect and fuss over
1/10 second delays in rear shifts. Among them are those who spend time
hooking their electronic derailleurs up to their computer to customize
the feel of the shifting.

And there are others who are content with a reasonably high gear, a low
enough gear for hills, and maybe 10% increments in between. The kindest
thing to say is, those extremes are a matter of taste.

But the latter guy will probably never need a taxi ride home because of
a virus in his shifter. ;-) The former guy can set out on a thousand
mile ride and know he can fix any likely problem with the half pound of
tools in his saddlebag.

Kind of like a fool saying the drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better than the new fancy dandy computer cars today.


I just don't think the differences in bike equipment are nearly as
extreme.

As an example: In about '65 the carbureted car I drove got about 20
mph, IIRC. The car I drive now is nothing fancy and not particularly
expensive. It's not even a hybrid. But the current tank of gas showed
42.6 mph when I pulled into the drive this evening.

Now I didn't start "serious" bicycling until 1973. But if my bike had
improved by that amount since 1973, I'd be averaging 30 mph on most
rides and able to knock off double centuries every couple weeks. Sadly,
that's not the case.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #34  
Old May 9th 17, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:56:11 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-08 04:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:53:29 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:
...after I properly re-sorted the spacers in the rear cassette.
Duh.

robert

It's pretty amazing how well a lot of the 1980s (or a lot earlier)
stuff still works if it's maintained reasnonably well rather than
abused. I have a bicycle with the old Shimano 600 EX stuff on it
including the scallop headset and I never have problems with it.


And if that choice words deleted scalloped headset shakes loose all
the time there is a solution which works to this day on my road bike:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG


I have NEVER needed to resort to the use of a hoseclamp on any headset on any of my bicycles.


You probably only ride on fairly smooth asphalt. I have a share of dirt
and other rough turf during most of my rides. The countering action of
the top nut just ain't sufficient for that no matter how hard it is torqued.


A small drop of LocTite will solve that and it won't cut your finger
like a hoser clamp.


At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually
didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep
technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put
in a new non-600 headset.


  #35  
Old May 9th 17, 03:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Mon, 08 May 2017 14:45:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that idea.


12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.

The crank came as standard equipment right up to about 1948 in north
america and well into the 60s in britain. (Anflias, Prefects,) I know
a lot of the mid 60's BMC stuff still had cranks in the boot - the MG
right up untill the end of the MGA.
  #36  
Old May 9th 17, 03:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:56:11 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-08 04:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:53:29 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:
...after I properly re-sorted the spacers in the rear cassette.
Duh.

robert

It's pretty amazing how well a lot of the 1980s (or a lot earlier)
stuff still works if it's maintained reasnonably well rather than
abused. I have a bicycle with the old Shimano 600 EX stuff on it
including the scallop headset and I never have problems with it.


And if that choice words deleted scalloped headset shakes loose all
the time there is a solution which works to this day on my road bike:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG


I have NEVER needed to resort to the use of a hoseclamp on any headset on any of my bicycles.


You probably only ride on fairly smooth asphalt. I have a share of dirt
and other rough turf during most of my rides. The countering action of
the top nut just ain't sufficient for that no matter how hard it is torqued.


A small drop of LocTite will solve that and it won't cut your finger
like a hoser clamp.


At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually
didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep
technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put
in a new non-600 headset.


I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers
  #37  
Old May 9th 17, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Mon, 08 May 2017 14:45:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that idea.


12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.


No electrics? One assumes that your bicycle has a crank instead :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #38  
Old May 9th 17, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:56:11 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-08 04:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:53:29 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:
...after I properly re-sorted the spacers in the rear cassette.
Duh.

robert

It's pretty amazing how well a lot of the 1980s (or a lot earlier)
stuff still works if it's maintained reasnonably well rather than
abused. I have a bicycle with the old Shimano 600 EX stuff on it
including the scallop headset and I never have problems with it.


And if that choice words deleted scalloped headset shakes loose all
the time there is a solution which works to this day on my road bike:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG


I have NEVER needed to resort to the use of a hoseclamp on any headset on any of my bicycles.


You probably only ride on fairly smooth asphalt. I have a share of dirt
and other rough turf during most of my rides. The countering action of
the top nut just ain't sufficient for that no matter how hard it is torqued.


A small drop of LocTite will solve that and it won't cut your finger
like a hoser clamp.


At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually
didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep
technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put
in a new non-600 headset.


I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers


Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be
loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming
out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on
a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32"
thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and
have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #39  
Old May 9th 17, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Mon, 08 May 2017 19:06:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/8/2017 5:37 PM, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 2:56 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 2:37 PM, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2017 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2017 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:06:57 AM UTC-5,
wrote:



It's no surprise that not only have they survived but
they still work
almost as well as new.


The problem is even when new, the old stuff did not work
nearly as
well as any of the new stuff today. Kind of like a fool
saying the
drum brakes and carburetor on his 65 Pontiac was better
than the new
fancy dandy computer cars today.


Agreed, dependable/repairable/cheap is not the same as
best performance.
People have personal preferences based on various
not-shared criteria.

That said, after the Chinese run their high altitude EMP
device, my
no-electronics cars will run and yours won't.


You have a crank on the front of that model A Andrew?
Unless you mean your bike and then I'm all in with that
idea.

12V electrical system without semiconductors, EPROMS or ICs.

p.s. Model T had a crank (at first anyway through 1919),
model A are
electric start. I own neither.

No electronics on my bikes either.

No, I don't have electronics on my bike except my garmin and
after the bomb, I figure I won't need that.
But it's been a while since I've seen a car without an
electronic ignition.

A matchbook and some meatware are sufficient for setting
mechanical breaker points.


I know. I used to carry points, rotor and condenser in my glove box. But
that was with a '69 Camaro with a 283. Long time ago.


I love my 283. I think Mr Slocumb would agree it's
everything an Ariel Four is not. One might say a small block
283 is the Sturmey Archer AW of the auto world.


Actually the 265's were the big deal. When they first appeared a
fellow installed a bog standard 265 in a gas fuel, non blown, dragster
chassis and brought it out to the strip. He whipped every V-8 Ford
that would run against him. The next month there were more Chevy
engines and it wasn't long before the Ford flat head was a museum
item.

I suspect that the very first 283's were probably some of the 265 boys
that owned a boring bar :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #40  
Old May 9th 17, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 4:06:01 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:56:11 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-08 04:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:53:29 PM UTC-4, Robert Latest wrote:
...after I properly re-sorted the spacers in the rear cassette.
Duh.

robert

It's pretty amazing how well a lot of the 1980s (or a lot earlier)
stuff still works if it's maintained reasnonably well rather than
abused. I have a bicycle with the old Shimano 600 EX stuff on it
including the scallop headset and I never have problems with it.


And if that choice words deleted scalloped headset shakes loose all
the time there is a solution which works to this day on my road bike:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Hoseclamp.JPG


I have NEVER needed to resort to the use of a hoseclamp on any headset on any of my bicycles.


You probably only ride on fairly smooth asphalt. I have a share of dirt
and other rough turf during most of my rides. The countering action of
the top nut just ain't sufficient for that no matter how hard it is torqued.

A small drop of LocTite will solve that and it won't cut your finger
like a hoser clamp.


At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually
didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep
technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put
in a new non-600 headset.


I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers


Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be
loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming
out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on
a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32"
thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and
have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.


Which confirms my statement that the headset locknut was not installed correctly.

Cheers
 




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