Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-18 08:31, wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 4:13:19 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 4:19:21 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 8:26:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:56:17 PM UTC-7, John B.
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:08:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/16/2017 9:33 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-15 18:20, jbeattie wrote:


That ship sailed when you got Octalink.


When buying an MTB that isn't completely
custom-assembled there isn't much choice.

Poor Joerg.

All my bikes were "custom assembled". Some more then once
:-) New wheels, new crank set, new hand;e bars, new
seat..... the list just goes on and on.

But thanks to Joerg I no longer answer, "Yup, did it
myself" when someone asks me something like did I replaced
the seat. Now when asked "Oh! How did you get that new
seat?" I reply, "custom assembled".

Sort of OT, but I discovered my Cannondale CX commuter bike
frame was broken while cleaning it on my work stand, so I
just stripped off the parts and continued cleaning the frame
to get it ready to take back to the local dealer. I took it
back and was called later because the Cannondale rep wanted
to see the "whole bike" to make sure it hadn't been crashed,
etc. So, I ended up taking pictures of the parts -- which,
except for the shifters and cable discs, we're all
replacements. The OE Truvativ Isis crank was crap. I was
going through ISIS BBs like Kleenex. That got replaced. The
bars broke on my way to work (Cinelli). The stem was too
short. The rear derailleur wore out. The OE Cannondale hubs
wore out in less than two years -- they had ****ty, draggy
seals and open bearings that couldn't hack all the wet
weather. I built a new set of wheels including a generator
front wheel. I changed the seatpost and saddle. I'm on a
Cinelli saddle from 1976 -- great saddle -- and a Thompson
post. The OE seat post and Fizik saddle is on my son's CAAD
9 and is worn out. I threw in a new headset at year ten.

I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS
was the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with
your car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a
big fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner
would be up in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected
to find this perfectly normal?


BTW, the pictures of all the non-OE stuff were good enough.
My new frame is in. Warranty replacement after 12 years --
free of charge. That's my fifth (?) Cannondale replacement
since 1984. It's going to hang on the wall for a while since
I already bought a replacement. My next big purchase will be
replacement for my roof-rack catastrophe SuperSix. That's
underway -- a Trek direct from my friends at the company.
I've totally shifted brand loyalty.

I think that as stiff as the new types of bikes are that they
simply break themselves apart on the bad road conditions. I
have a road I ride on and it has sections of old pavement
interspersed with new. Rolling from one to the other on my
aluminum or carbon bikes was an entirely new experience from a
steel bike.


I prefer steel. I am wondering what will happen to the many CX
bikes and MTBs made with carbon frames. Those that haven't turned
into garage queens but see a few thousand hard miles per year like
my bicycles do.


Aluminum has a fatigue life, but I figure 12 years of hard use
followed by a free replacement is pretty good.


It depends. Aircraft frames can endure 30+ years without major
structural replacements unless the owner let corrosion fester. My
aluminum frame MTB impresses me by how stiff and robust the frame
is (a reason why I bought that particular model). Not even a dent
underneath the fat down tube where all the rocks hit. Rocks that
when they hit my shins make the blood flow.



I've gotten used to the steel bikes now and they feel like they
hit bumps hard but they don't throw me off the saddle or demand
that I get up off the saddle like the carbon bikes did. I no
longer trust in "new" and "modern".

I was riding my old CAAD 9 while visiting my son in SLC last
weekend. It's his second bike and my go-to bike when visiting.
It's a lively frame that is very steel-like -- except the weight.
It is definitely more forgiving in the front-end than my last
Columbus SP frame.

At one point riding with my son, I thought the CAAD 9 was too
limber in the front end when I got a nasty speed wobble at about
60mph -- but then I realized that I was just terrified and stiff
through the shoulders and was causing my own problems.


I get antsy if the speedometer climbs reaches around 45mph. It did
yesterday. The speed limit was .. ahem .. 25mph.


... I put my knees against the top tube and relaxed my shoulders
and the bike railed the rest of the downhill. I do lots of
descending around here, but its mostly twisty and steep and often
not that long. It's like slalom skiing where you shell speed in
the corners. Around SLC, you can hit these long open 7-8%
descents where you can hit terminal velocity -- which was an
adjustment for me.


And then the front tire decides to have a side wall blow-out ...


The twisting canyons around SLC are like riding around here
except they're two or three times as long and some are
super-narrow -- like driveway narrow. You can't pick up that much
speed unless you're wiling to take a chance encountering a car on
the other side of a blind corner -- or go flying off a cliff. On
the big canyons with wider roads, the descents can be scary
because of the high volume of car traffic. It seems that driving
on mountain roads is a weekend pastime for people in SLC -- and
so is riding. Some of the easier routes (up Emigration Canyon)
looked like ant trails of cyclists. It was impressive.


This cornering stuff concerned me a bit ever since I was a kid. One
kid in our town over-cooked a curve on dirt, went over a cliff,
sailed 100ft or so in free fall and died. Hopefully on impact and
not after a lot of suffering.

Joerg - that's a false comparison. Cars are not designed for the
ultimate in light weight.


Sure they do. Now they even have to because of stringent fleet
consumption regulations.


... A car brake disk is 3/8" thick and can be
refaced several times. A bicycle disk must be replaced in total the
first time it gets any grooves in it or if it has heat distortion.


Gimmee a 3/8" front rotor for the MTB and I'd be all smiles. With all
the mods my MTB weighs over 40lbs anyhow so who cares?


The engine, transmission and differential all are in lubrication
baths. Wheel bearings and such are two to three times heavier than
the maximum calculated loads.


It would not be a problem to run a bicycle BB in a lubrication bath.
It's also not much bigger than dirt bike wheel bearings who are exposed
to much more hammering yet last a lot longer.

Anyhow, a guy in Germany recommended to replace the ES25 with a ES51.
More pricey but if it last longer it would be fine.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-08-18 11:20, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/18/2017 10:35 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 6:55:32 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:22:59 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-16 18:34, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:33:41 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 18:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 7:16:29 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-14 18:37, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:04:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
much snipped

Gimmee a BB that weighs a pound and lasts forever.

That ship sailed when you got Octalink.


When buying an MTB that isn't completely custom-assembled there isn't
much choice.


... Square drive -- maybe, but
it would require maintenance. Any sealed unit (internal or external
bearing) will fail after a period of time -- sometimes a very long
period.


I now have a sealed UN-55 BB in my road bike which has square taper
cranks. So far there were adjustable Shimano 600 BBs in there but
those
have become unobtanium, at least at reasonable prices.


Seek and thou shall find:
http://tinyurl.com/yapw9ats
US$2.42
Or a complete set with bearings, spindle and a wrench US$ 24.03

I think I have written about talking to a Chinese wholesaler at a
trade show here who would, in volume, supply the three piece BB's for
US$1.00 each.


Which will last what? Three rides?

I have no idea, but given that, according to what I read, China makes
60% of the world's bicycles, and 86% of the bicycles sold in the U.S.,
I suspect that it is a bit more then three rides.

Shimano, for example, has a major factory in China so very possible
your ES25 bottom brackets could have been made there.

It's my understanding that Shimano only manufactures 105 through
DuraAce in Japan and anything below that is make in China. While it
doesn't work as good as the top level parts it seems to last as long
to me.


Significant Shimano production is in Malaysia just as significant
Campagnolo production is in Romania.


I really don't care where it's made. China can do quality stuff, some of
the electronics I designed are produced there. Assuming proper
production quality controls the durability of a part like a BB is all in
the design. And that's what I am trying to figure out. Which Octalink-V2
compatible BB is best regardless of weight and price (within reason)?

After being recommended the ES51 and also a ES71 I researched a bit and
found all sorts of reviews, from "best thing since sliced bread" to
"expletive censored, broke after just a few rides".

I couldn't find much about the Shimano ES300. Says Cro-Moly spindle (are
the others Cro-Moly?) but maybe it's too new to have much in reviews.
Does anyone have experience with the ES300 Shimano BB?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-08-17 19:51, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:21:47 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-16 18:43, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:35:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 18:07, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2017 7:55 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:24:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 08:29, wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

There is no space down there on the MTB for outboard bearings.

There most certainly is. The cranks are recessed for the added width
or they are simply wider. ...


Right now there is less than 0.020" clearance so this would require
buying new cranks and throwing out the current ones I have that are
still good (less a tooth here and there but who cares). I'd also have to
try my best to calculate the chain line before ordering, often from
scarce data.


... They do not start creaking after a short
time as was stated and they have lower rotational friction under
load.


I understand that. What I don't understand is this: I have helped
replace wheel bearings on offroad motorcycles. These weren't much bigger
and they are exposed to way more load and hammering. Fully loaded bike,
rider, tent, food, booze, clothes, air mattress and so on, blasting over
rutted trails at 40mph or more. Those bearings lasted north of 50k
miles. They weren't even shot, it was just PM.

If there just was an ES25 replacement where the left cup isn't plastic
I'd be happy. For my 1982 road bike there was but maybe I am out of luck
for the MTB even though it's a 2103 model year.

You keep talking about that plastic cup. Is this because you *think*
it might fail or because it *has* failed? I suspect the former as had
it actually failed you would have trumpeted the fact to the Heavens.


I have not seen those fail but lot of other plastic parts on bicycles.
Many of which I then replaced with aluminum.


Mr. Muzi probably has more experience with those cartridge BB's then
(again) probably the rest of the group combined. I wonder whether he
might care to comment on the frequency, in his experience, that those
plastic cups fail?

Of course Mr. Muzi is not from California and I'm sure he doesn't
spend all his time drinking home brewed beer, but still, his
experiences might prove informative.


You are correct. Nylon cups, while ugly and inexpensive (perhaps a
feature, maybe merely declasse) are much less trouble than steel or
aluminum cups. They don't move, corrode or crack as metal cups sometimes
do /in extremis/ .


Thanks. Then I'll just rip the thing out and replace it with another
ES25. And then 5k miles later another ...

At a cost of $0.004296 a mile.


Oh, the cost of that won't matter. It's the hassle of having to crack
out the wrenches for that so often. And cleaning the MTB down there
where the horse poop and all tends to cake up.

Yup, it certainly is a hassle to check the bike. One can sympathize.
Of course a casual look occasionally might have prevented some or all
of your many problems.

As a 1.5mm, 1 x 19, stainless, cable has a Minimum breaking load (MBL)
of 190 kg. or 480 lbs. your famous account of the breaking brake cable
was undoubtedly due to a lack of maintenance.


Nope. One of them was almost brand new new. The round top piece had
simply stripped off. I showed the LBS where I bought it, he said "Well,
that happens" and gave me a new one. And yes, he did say he was sorry
for my bruises.


As for how much more wonderful your automobile is, my wife just took
here small Honda in for it's routine checkup. 66,466 Km and the cost
of repairs was US$425.00. Never been driven off the road, only driven
by an old lady of 75 and never crashed or wrecked.

The major problems were both lower, front, suspension members, "wings"
the Honda book has it, required replacing and both rear hub bearings
were bad.


That is highly unusual for a top brand Japanese vehicle. My wife has a
Toyota Corolla and the only critical part that ever wore on it was the
contact for the starter. A $25 spare part. In 22 years.


I might add that the main reason for the size of the bill is that they
no longer repair anything. The rear hub bearings (front wheel drive)
were rough so they replaced the entire hub. When I asked why not just
change the bearings they told me that Honda's policy, and the parts
stocked, required a hub replacement.


That is part of it. Then there are the 3rd party products which cost
only a fraction.


In terms of your bicycle that would be equal to replacing the front
fork and both wheel hubs.


That is way off in comparison as that would equal about 25% of the whole
vehicle price as new. I doubt your Honda cost less that $2k new. That's
what my MTB costs new and the Manitou fork alone runs over $350, without
labor.


... But since the practice is not to repair the
bits and pieces simply replace the entire member it would have been
the front forks and both wheels.


That's what it almost is these days. Have you asked your LBS what a
complete fork disassembly service job costs and compared that to a new
fork? In reality it means people no longer have their forks and rear
shocks serviced and when they ooze oil all over the place they simply
buy new once. Because that costs less.


Yes Sir! Auto's are better.


In terms of quality, most are. Those of certain brands are not but I
don't buy those. As with most products there is always a risk that you
end up with a lemon.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 19:10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2017 7:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:


I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS was
the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with your
car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a big
fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner would be up
in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected to find this
perfectly normal?

There are choices, Joerg. You (like most of us here) choose to buy sport
bikes - that is, bikes that compete in the market by trying to be fairly
lightweight, bikes that use "innovative" designs for components, bikes
designed for higher performance or off-road banging about.


Since when is a XC MTB a sport bike? Also, I have an SUV, a _sport_
utility vehicle. In over 20 years not even a bulb in a dome light has
ever dared to burn out.


You have the opportunity to buy bikes with much stouter components. Buy
yourself one of the upright Dutch utility bikes! Every part of it would
probably last much longer than what you chose to buy. Yes, it may weigh
50 pounds, but you've repeatedly told us you don't care about weight.


Having lived in the Netherlands I have ridden those. Guess what, they
broke. The first thing I thoroughly crunched was ... the BB. All the way
so riding home had become immpossible.


You're like a guy who buys an Alfa Romeo and complains that it's more
fragile than his neighbor's dump truck.


Nope. I'd never buy an Alfa, that's not for me. Just like I won't buy
some super-light carbon fiber deal for a bicycle.

So even a Dutch bike isn't rugged enough for you?

Then buy yourself one of these http://www.worksmancycles.com/indtrikes.html
and stop whining. Sheesh.

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 4:32:50 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
Having lived in the Netherlands I have ridden those. Guess what, they
broke. The first thing I thoroughly crunched was ... the BB. All the way
so riding home had become immpossible.
Snipped
So even a Dutch bike isn't rugged enough for you?

Then buy yourself one of these http://www.worksmancycles.com/indtrikes.html
and stop whining. Sheesh.

- Frank Krygowski

That's why keep teling Joerg to buy a motorcycle and then have it convertedto pedal power. LOL VBEG

Cheers

On 2017-08-18 13:32, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 19:10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2017 7:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:


I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS was
the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with your
car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a big
fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner would be up
in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected to find this
perfectly normal?

There are choices, Joerg. You (like most of us here) choose to buy sport
bikes - that is, bikes that compete in the market by trying to be fairly
lightweight, bikes that use "innovative" designs for components, bikes
designed for higher performance or off-road banging about.


Since when is a XC MTB a sport bike? Also, I have an SUV, a _sport_
utility vehicle. In over 20 years not even a bulb in a dome light has
ever dared to burn out.


You have the opportunity to buy bikes with much stouter components. Buy
yourself one of the upright Dutch utility bikes! Every part of it would
probably last much longer than what you chose to buy. Yes, it may weigh
50 pounds, but you've repeatedly told us you don't care about weight.


Having lived in the Netherlands I have ridden those. Guess what, they
broke. The first thing I thoroughly crunched was ... the BB. All the way
so riding home had become immpossible.


You're like a guy who buys an Alfa Romeo and complains that it's more
fragile than his neighbor's dump truck.


Nope. I'd never buy an Alfa, that's not for me. Just like I won't buy
some super-light carbon fiber deal for a bicycle.

So even a Dutch bike isn't rugged enough for you?


I was by far not the only one breaking them.


Then buy yourself one of these http://www.worksmancycles.com/indtrikes.html
and stop whining. Sheesh.


Have you looked more closely at the cranks and BB area? Appears to be
similar to what one finds on department store MTB. If so, how long will
that last?

http://www.worksmancycles.com/media/2014/m2620.jpg

If my MTB ever gives up so badly or suffers a crash that a repair isn't
economical I will be looking for a DH-MTB. 8" suspension travel, 8"
rotors, double-crown fork, the works. Always learning. However, the
frame I picked out is already a rather good one. It's the mounted parts
that are failing and that isn't much different for other riders around
here. Not all of them being clydes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 4:10:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-18 13:32, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 19:10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2017 7:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:


I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS was
the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with your
car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a big
fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner would be up
in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected to find this
perfectly normal?

There are choices, Joerg. You (like most of us here) choose to buy sport
bikes - that is, bikes that compete in the market by trying to be fairly
lightweight, bikes that use "innovative" designs for components, bikes
designed for higher performance or off-road banging about.


Since when is a XC MTB a sport bike? Also, I have an SUV, a _sport_
utility vehicle. In over 20 years not even a bulb in a dome light has
ever dared to burn out.


You have the opportunity to buy bikes with much stouter components. Buy
yourself one of the upright Dutch utility bikes! Every part of it would
probably last much longer than what you chose to buy. Yes, it may weigh
50 pounds, but you've repeatedly told us you don't care about weight.


Having lived in the Netherlands I have ridden those. Guess what, they
broke. The first thing I thoroughly crunched was ... the BB. All the way
so riding home had become immpossible.


You're like a guy who buys an Alfa Romeo and complains that it's more
fragile than his neighbor's dump truck.


Nope. I'd never buy an Alfa, that's not for me. Just like I won't buy
some super-light carbon fiber deal for a bicycle.

So even a Dutch bike isn't rugged enough for you?


I was by far not the only one breaking them.


Then buy yourself one of these http://www.worksmancycles.com/indtrikes.html
and stop whining. Sheesh.


Have you looked more closely at the cranks and BB area? Appears to be
similar to what one finds on department store MTB. If so, how long will
that last?

http://www.worksmancycles.com/media/2014/m2620.jpg

If my MTB ever gives up so badly or suffers a crash that a repair isn't
economical I will be looking for a DH-MTB. 8" suspension travel, 8"
rotors, double-crown fork, the works. Always learning. However, the
frame I picked out is already a rather good one. It's the mounted parts
that are failing and that isn't much different for other riders around
here. Not all of them being clydes.

You have a mid-fi Fuji with parts that are at least a decade old (if it has Octalink). You purport to thrash that bike. Expect to replace parts. Bike parts do not last as long as car parts. Cars parts do not last as long as brass toilet parts. Brass toilet parts do not last as long as Egyptian pyramids. Egyptian pyramids do not last as long as the sun. The material world has a shelf-life. Embrace it.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/18/2017 8:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 4:10:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-18 13:32, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 19:10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2017 7:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:


I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS was
the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with your
car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a big
fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner would be up
in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected to find this
perfectly normal?

There are choices, Joerg. You (like most of us here) choose to buy sport
bikes - that is, bikes that compete in the market by trying to be fairly
lightweight, bikes that use "innovative" designs for components, bikes
designed for higher performance or off-road banging about.


Since when is a XC MTB a sport bike? Also, I have an SUV, a _sport_
utility vehicle. In over 20 years not even a bulb in a dome light has
ever dared to burn out.


You have the opportunity to buy bikes with much stouter components. Buy
yourself one of the upright Dutch utility bikes! Every part of it would
probably last much longer than what you chose to buy. Yes, it may weigh
50 pounds, but you've repeatedly told us you don't care about weight.


Having lived in the Netherlands I have ridden those. Guess what, they
broke. The first thing I thoroughly crunched was ... the BB. All the way
so riding home had become immpossible.


You're like a guy who buys an Alfa Romeo and complains that it's more
fragile than his neighbor's dump truck.


Nope. I'd never buy an Alfa, that's not for me. Just like I won't buy
some super-light carbon fiber deal for a bicycle.

So even a Dutch bike isn't rugged enough for you?


I was by far not the only one breaking them.


Then buy yourself one of these http://www.worksmancycles.com/indtrikes.html
and stop whining. Sheesh.


Have you looked more closely at the cranks and BB area? Appears to be
similar to what one finds on department store MTB. If so, how long will
that last?

http://www.worksmancycles.com/media/2014/m2620.jpg

If my MTB ever gives up so badly or suffers a crash that a repair isn't
economical I will be looking for a DH-MTB. 8" suspension travel, 8"
rotors, double-crown fork, the works. Always learning. However, the
frame I picked out is already a rather good one. It's the mounted parts
that are failing and that isn't much different for other riders around
here. Not all of them being clydes.

You have a mid-fi Fuji with parts that are at least a decade old (if it has Octalink). You purport to thrash that bike. Expect to replace parts. Bike parts do not last as long as car parts. Cars parts do not last as long as brass toilet parts. Brass toilet parts do not last as long as Egyptian pyramids. Egyptian pyramids do not last as long as the sun. The material world has a shelf-life. Embrace it.

-- Jay Beattie.


+1
Especially on that spline crank thing, "It's for selling"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:56:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/17/2017 9:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:13:22 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 4:19:21 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 8:26:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:56:17 PM UTC-7, John B.
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:08:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/16/2017 9:33 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-15 18:20, jbeattie wrote:


It depends. Aircraft frames can endure 30+ years without major
structural replacements unless the owner let corrosion fester. My
aluminum frame MTB impresses me by how stiff and robust the frame is (a
reason why I bought that particular model). Not even a dent underneath
the fat down tube where all the rocks hit. Rocks that when they hit my
shins make the blood flow.


That isn't true as aircraft undergo almost continuous inspections and
any damage is immediately repaired. The B-52H, for example, which was
built starting in 1961 had a major structural modification of the wing
structure in 1964. The DC-3 (C-47) which was used for the initial "gun
ships" in Vietnam days had literally thousands of modification orders.


mmmmm, electric Gatling guns...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKOrpyO0z48

skip to 1:30

I was stationed at Nha Trang where one squadron of gun-ships were
based. Our brag was that if we got there before the V.C. got through
the wire (actually got inside the fort) that we never lost.

Which sounds sort of grandiose except that the Special Forces who
manned the "forts" said the same thing.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 12:07:36 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-18 08:31, wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 4:13:19 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 4:19:21 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 8:26:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:56:17 PM UTC-7, John B.
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:08:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/16/2017 9:33 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-15 18:20, jbeattie wrote:


Much Snipped

This cornering stuff concerned me a bit ever since I was a kid. One
kid in our town over-cooked a curve on dirt, went over a cliff,
sailed 100ft or so in free fall and died. Hopefully on impact and
not after a lot of suffering.

Joerg - that's a false comparison. Cars are not designed for the
ultimate in light weight.


Sure they do. Now they even have to because of stringent fleet
consumption regulations.

Not true at all. In fact most car parts are designed to be the
cheapest possible to manufacture. Look at all the stamped parts as
opposed to the same, and much lighter structure built of welded
tubing, for example.

The lower front suspension members I mentioned that were replaced on
my wife's car were stamped metal with a rolled lip all the way around.
Probably 10 or 15 lbs. each. I can, and have, fabricated much lighter
and stronger suspension members out of 4130 chromalloy tubing.


... A car brake disk is 3/8" thick and can be
refaced several times. A bicycle disk must be replaced in total the
first time it gets any grooves in it or if it has heat distortion.


Gimmee a 3/8" front rotor for the MTB and I'd be all smiles. With all
the mods my MTB weighs over 40lbs anyhow so who cares?


Any, even marginally competent machine shop can make bicycle brake
disks and the likely material is also very cheap. One can only
speculate on why you don't have them.

The engine, transmission and differential all are in lubrication
baths. Wheel bearings and such are two to three times heavier than
the maximum calculated loads.


It would not be a problem to run a bicycle BB in a lubrication bath.
It's also not much bigger than dirt bike wheel bearings who are exposed
to much more hammering yet last a lot longer.

Anyhow, a guy in Germany recommended to replace the ES25 with a ES51.
More pricey but if it last longer it would be fine.

But you'll never know until you spend the big bucks to buy one and
test it yourself. Based on your continuous complaints about lousy bike
parts I assume that you will be singing your sad songs about yet
another lousy bottom bracket within the year.