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Chain waxing



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 8th 18, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,299
Default Chain waxing

On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for a
chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed by
a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I apply
White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy stuff
in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a Q-Tip to
dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings depending
on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets dirtier on roads.
40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The upside is that this
method does not require me to take the chain off the bike which I would
really dread.


OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.

Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/

Ads
  #32  
Old June 8th 18, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,163
Default Chain waxing

On 6/7/2018 8:02 PM, sms wrote:

Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/


From Scharf's "World's Greatest Expert" website just above:

"Last Update: 2 December 2013"

Since then:

Tests of bike chain lubricants for the go-fast crowd:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests
Plain wax lube is best. "The most efficient lubes in perfect conditions
are likely not the fastest when the going gets rough, with the exception
of paraffin." And "Paraffin wax, our clear winner..." (including when
the chain was doused with dust, gravel and mud).

You could spice it up with a little teflon or moly and save another
couple Watts:
https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/ne...formula-36424/
but I've never felt the need. I do add a small percentage of oil when I
first melt the wax cake. YMMV.

Experiences of cyclists who have actually tried it:
http://www.ecovelo.info/2010/05/30/c...-clean-freaks/
That's as opposed to Scharf, who forms his opinion first, then looks for
ways to justify it.

Real world, on-road tests from back in 1977:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/

And in industry?
https://www.klueber.com/en/lubricant...icating-waxes/

All these links have been posted here many times since Scharf's "last
update." But Scharf doesn't change his web sites even if he's been
caught in a blatant lie.

I don't sell wax or try to make any money from it. Some people try wax
and don't like it, and that's fine. I don't care if people prefer
rinsing their chains with smelly concoctions, scrubbing them with
toothpicks, enclosing them in oddball cases, paying $100 per gallon for
re-packaged chainsaw oil, or even replacing them with belts. But let's
not _totally_ ignore actual data!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #33  
Old June 8th 18, 06:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,178
Default Chain waxing

On 07/06/18 21:40, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-07 12:15, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/06/18 07:13, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:50:29 AM UTC+1, ERSHC wrote:


[...]

I'm much too lazy to waste energy on internal
gears or on oiling a chain every 100 miles.

Now that's the sort of cyclist I like hearing about. Though I don't
quite see how an IGH would "waste" your energy. A Rohloff, for
instance, has 14 evenly spaced gears, a fat range, and an instant
change, through several gears in an instant, if you wish. Oh, and the
Rohloff is definitely more efficient than a dirty chain and
derailleur, according to reliable German tests.


Me, I'd keep my dérailleur clean and solve that problem.* Save some
weight as well.


And a TON of money.


Yep. IHGs are a bit of a niche market. 4 of my current bikes have
them, one has a derailleur. That Derailleur is dry miles only and is a
good solution. The others are rain, ice, snow, salt & grit. IHG are a
better solution.

I've tried the Hebie chain gliders as well, and haven't been so
impressed with them, but if you have IHGs, a good chain case is really a
must or you lose some of the advantages.

I have two Rohloffs. Are they worth it, not compared to an Alfine-11
imho, but, they are very, very nice. In red of course, cos that goes
faster :-)
  #34  
Old June 8th 18, 07:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ERSHC
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Posts: 30
Default Chain waxing

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 22:13:38 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:50:29 AM UTC+1, ERSHC wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 20:18:36 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT),
jbeattie wrote:

...
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 07:44:01 -0700 (PDT),
Andre Jute wrote:


Seems to me chain cleaning and waxing is another
sadomasochistic practice that cyclists without the
imagination to do something more productive have brought on
themselves.

Of course, if chain cleaning and waxing defines who you
are, like going to church on Sundays, don't pay any
attention to me; I wouldn't dream of criticizing your
religion.

Seriously, it's a very simple process, and less work than cleaning
and relubing a chain. I'm not advocating it as suitable for
anyone else, just desribing how it works for me. If that warrants
chastising, I have to wonder who are the real religious zealots.


Really simple, and something I do ONCE in the chain's life. Hot wax
bath, then on to the bike. 3000 miles and .25% elongation later, it's
into the thrash and a new $12.50 chain (currently SRAM PC850s) gets
installed. Cheap and easy. And I ride in the rain and snow as well as
good weather in NYC.

The best internally geared hubs don't have the efficiency of a dirty
chain on derailure cogs.


You might want to check your facts on that one before you express the same fallacy in a less forgiving venue.


Point me to something reasonably unbiased and more recent than the
2001 Cycling Science article that supports this, and I'll be glad to
change my opinion. But not my gear train. Like chain waxing, it works
for me, and that is really what I care about.

  #35  
Old June 8th 18, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,411
Default Chain waxing

On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote:
On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.


OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.


So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are married
clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench.


Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/


I know some people who boil their chains in wax and reported good
results but it's a major chore. Such reports also have to be taken with
a grain of salt because not everyone rides on pristine asphalt. Some of
us ride singletrack where the front wheel generates a plume of dust and
the chain is right in the middle of that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #36  
Old June 8th 18, 03:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Chain waxing

On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote:
On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.


OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.


So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are married
clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench.


The bike is already on the stand for washing. I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes. Not that I care much how you clean your
chain. Just answering your question.



Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/


I know some people who boil their chains in wax and reported good
results but it's a major chore. Such reports also have to be taken with
a grain of salt because not everyone rides on pristine asphalt. Some of
us ride singletrack where the front wheel generates a plume of dust and
the chain is right in the middle of that.


I think James uses wax and I doubt that he rides only on pristine
asphalt. Why do you care what other people do to clean their chains?
  #37  
Old June 8th 18, 05:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,411
Default Chain waxing

On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote:
On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote:
On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.


So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.


The bike is already on the stand for washing.



Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.


... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.



Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.


... Not that I care much how you clean your
chain. Just answering your question.



Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/


I know some people who boil their chains in wax and reported good
results but it's a major chore. Such reports also have to be taken
with a grain of salt because not everyone rides on pristine asphalt.
Some of us ride singletrack where the front wheel generates a plume of
dust and the chain is right in the middle of that.


I think James uses wax and I doubt that he rides only on pristine
asphalt. Why do you care what other people do to clean their chains?



Never said I did.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #38  
Old June 8th 18, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,300
Default Chain waxing

On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 9:17:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote:
On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote:
On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.


So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.


The bike is already on the stand for washing.



Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.


... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.



Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.


What? No shelves? You can buy shelves at Home Depot you know. Is it about your wife? Does she check your wash buckets to make sure they're clean inside with no biodegradable solvent-filled chain cleaning machines in them? Mine too! She was up at like 2:00 AM this morning going through all my buckets in the garage . . . totally ****ed off at the condition of some of my bike cleaning brushes. So I asked her about the dust under the refrigerator . . . "have you seen that . . . have you? How could any self-respecting wife allow that disgusting accumulation? And your hair in the drain! It's like stringy snot! I want a divorce!"

-- Jay Beattie.
  #39  
Old June 8th 18, 06:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Chain waxing

On 08/06/2018 12:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote:
On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote:
On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive
found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the
job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for
a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed
by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I
apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy
stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a
Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with
a Kleenex.

That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings
depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets
dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The
upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off
the bike which I would really dread.

OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?!

Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand).
Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean
solvent until the chain runs clean.

Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean
on the inside.

When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube.


So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including
the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are
married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on
some bench.


The bike is already on the stand for washing.



Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The
MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense.



The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense...


************************* ************ ... I have a pan in my shed
with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable)
and the Park chain cleaner in the pan.* Takes a few minutes to fill up
the tool and run the chain through it.* The pan catches the slosh. I
don't usually change the degreaser.* A couple minutes in the chain
cleaner works well enough for me.* Hose out everything and let it dry
while the bike is drying.* Certainly takes less time than what you
describe with the toothbrushes.



Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the
shelf as is. Not gonna happen here.



You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the
bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time.

**************** ... Not that I care much how you clean your
chain.* Just answering your question.



Above all, avoid hot wax.

http://nordicgroup.us/chain/


I know some people who boil their chains in wax and reported good
results but it's a major chore. Such reports also have to be taken
with a grain of salt because not everyone rides on pristine asphalt.
Some of us ride singletrack where the front wheel generates a plume of
dust and the chain is right in the middle of that.


I think James uses wax and I doubt that he rides only on pristine
asphalt.* Why do you care what other people do to clean their chains?



Never said I did.


You sure write a lot about it then...
  #40  
Old June 8th 18, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 5,753
Default Chain waxing

On 08/06/18 03:18, Theodore Heise wrote:

Jay makes a great point. If I rode in the rain a lot (or even
much), I probably would not be using wax.


I recently rode a one week supported tour over 800km with two wet days.
I didn't bother re-applying my wax/oil lube for another few hundred kms
after I got back home. No squeaks or dry chain sound.

--
JS
 




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