Is it true what they say about Cannondale?

In article ,
SMS wrote:

It's Chris wrote:
Maybe they should scale back for a while, return to their roots and
resume building the best bike bags and packs on the market?

Just a thought ;-3)

Yeah, as soon as bicycle touring comes back into style and creates a
market for high quality packs and bags. I think all of the U.S. pannier
manufacturers have folded. Kangaroo Baggs used to make panniers that
rivaled Arkel, but the market for high quaility panniers is tiny. I'm
glad Arkel is holding on.

Cannondale's claim to fame in bicycles was that they were using aluminum
when everyone else was using steel. They somehow turned using a
cheaper, less desirable, material into a marketing advantage. Once
everyone else realized how cheap aluminum was, that was the end of
Cannondale.

Cannondale isn't in any trouble that I know of. They're not Trek, but
then they didn't get to closely associate with Lance Armstrong. Steel is
nice enough as a material for bicycles, but aluminum is a great material
in its own right.

Cannondale has progressively been moving towards carbon fibre, and this
year most of their top-line bicycles (road and mountain) are carbon
fibre from end to end.

Not only do they still make a touring model, it even has a retro logo:

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-8TR1.html

Full disclosu Cannondale is a past sponsor of my bike club. I don't
own one of their bikes, but the guys in our club who did seemed very
happy. I gather they are stiff yet compliant.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Cannondale isn't in any trouble that I know of.

LOL, well that proves it!

See
"http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2007/12/gilding-lily-building-better-bike.html"

"There are literally people standing in front of vending machines right
now and asking themselves, “Hmm, I could buy this bag of peanut M&Ms, or
I could own half of Cannondale.” And you know what they’re doing?
They’re buying the freaking candy!"

On Jan 13, 3:03*pm, SMS wrote:

snipped

Cannondale's claim to fame in bicycles was that they were using aluminum
* when everyone else was using steel. They somehow turned using a
cheaper, less desirable, material into a marketing advantage.

Cannondale's road to success invilved ripping off Gary Klein and
making an affordable frame that was light, stiff and very marketable.
It also provided a nice, fat profit to Cannondale.


Once everyone else realized how cheap aluminum was, that was the end of
Cannondale.

Aluminum frames became really cheap when production moved to Asia.
That's when they lost their "high end" cachet.

SMS" wrote in message
... Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Cannondale isn't in any trouble that I know of.

LOL, well that proves it!

See
"http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2007/12/gilding-lily-building-better-bike.html"

"There are literally people standing in front of vending machines right
now and asking themselves, “Hmm, I could buy this bag of peanut M&Ms, or I
could own half of Cannondale.” And you know what they’re doing? They’re
buying the freaking candy!"

Oh come on. The whole blog is a FICTITIOUS (according to the blog)
re-telling of the behind-the-scenes story based upon THIS ad copy-

"Our Cannondale Vredestein team thought we were insane, 'Why would you want
to change something that’s perfect?' Our engineers asked, 'What would make
it better?' The team responded, 'More travel, lighter, stiffer.' Done."

The blogger himself later comments-

"The post was all in fun of course. I tried to stay as far away from actual
facts as possible."

This is not to say that Cannondale isn't in a serious position. They need
either a huge influx of cash (not likely from those presently owning most of
the company) or a plan to restore profitability or... liquidation, with the
name becoming yet one more you'll eventually find at bikesdirect.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Jan 14, 11:44*am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

snipped

This is not to say that Cannondale isn't in a serious position. They need
either a huge influx of cash (not likely from those presently owning most of
the company) or a plan to restore profitability or... liquidation, with the
name becoming yet one more you'll eventually find at bikesdirect.


Will the seatstays proclaim: "Machine Made in the PRC"? ;-)

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

SMS wrote:

Cannondale's claim to fame in bicycles was that they were using aluminum
when everyone else was using steel. They somehow turned using a
cheaper, less desirable, material into a marketing advantage.

Cannondale's road to success invilved ripping off Gary Klein and
making an affordable frame that was light, stiff and very marketable.
It also provided a nice, fat profit to Cannondale.

Someone else, maybe several someones, surely made a fat-tubed aluminum
frame before Gary Klein. They, like Gary Klein, didn't do what
Cannondale did, though. C'dale put fat-tubed frames in your LBS and
mine, where we could see them and (as you point out) afford to buy
them.

Chalo

On Jan 14, 12:06*pm, Chalo wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:

SMS wrote:

Cannondale's claim to fame in bicycles was that they were using aluminum
* when everyone else was using steel. They somehow turned using a
cheaper, less desirable, material into a marketing advantage.

Cannondale's road to success involved ripping off Gary Klein and
making an affordable frame that was light, stiff and very marketable.
It also provided a nice, fat profit to Cannondale.

Someone else, maybe several someones, surely made a fat-tubed aluminum
frame before Gary Klein. *They, like Gary Klein, didn't do what
Cannondale did, though. *C'dale put fat-tubed frames in your LBS and
mine, where we could see them and (as you point out) afford to buy
them.


AFAICT, Klein was the first with a welded, fat-tubed, heat treated
aluminium frame. He held one or more patents on such frames, FWTW.

In article ,
SMS wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Cannondale isn't in any trouble that I know of.

LOL, well that proves it!

See
"http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2007/12/gilding-lily-building-better-bike.htm
l"

"There are literally people standing in front of vending machines right
now and asking themselves, ³Hmm, I could buy this bag of peanut M&Ms, or
I could own half of Cannondale.² And you know what they¹re doing?
They¹re buying the freaking candy!"

As I pointed out previously, Cannondale is now privately held by Pegasus
Partners. They are the owners of 100% of the Cannondale what makes the
bikes.

The Cannondale that Bike Snob refers to is a shell of the bankrupted
entity. It has no relation to anything that currently makes bikes.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

AFAICT, Klein was the first with a welded, fat-tubed, heat treated
aluminium frame. He held one or more patents on such frames, FWTW.

I think he was just first on the market with a fat tubed aluminum
frame. I have seen claims elsewhere about this or that hobbyist or
academic having built an oversized aluminum frame in c.1970, so
chances are the first one was even earlier than that. You're probably
right about the heat treating part, though. The process was probably
too exotic for even an ambitious and knowledgeable enthusiast in those
days, unless he already did it at work.

In many cases, holding a patent on something just means that you were
the first to patent it. Heck, _I've_ probably done things with bikes
that will one day be patented by someone else.

None of this diminishes the significance of what Gary Klein did, nor
the accomplishments of those who did comparable things before him.
Cannondale's feat was one of design, production, and marketing rather
than invention. They were like Merlin or Kestrel-- not the pioneers
of a novel frame material, but the ones who awakened public
consciousness about its potential.

Chalo

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

AFAICT, Klein was the first with a welded, fat-tubed, heat treated
aluminium frame. He held one or more patents on such frames, FWTW.

I think he was just first on the market with a fat tubed aluminum
frame. I have seen claims elsewhere about this or that hobbyist or
academic having built an oversized aluminum frame in c.1970, so
chances are the first one was even earlier than that. You're probably
right about the heat treating part, though. The process was probably
too exotic for even an ambitious and knowledgeable enthusiast in those
days, unless he already did it at work.

In many cases, holding a patent on something just means that you were
the first to patent it. Heck, _I've_ probably done things with bikes
that will one day be patented by someone else.

None of this diminishes the significance of what Gary Klein did, nor
the accomplishments of those who did comparable things before him.
Cannondale's feat was one of design, production, and marketing rather
than invention. They were like Merlin or Kestrel-- not the pioneers
of a novel frame material, but the ones who awakened public
consciousness about its potential.

This is fair comment, but I think it underestimates how devilish and
useful it is to get the design and production (not to speak of the
marketing) right.

Production processes matter, because of the massive influence they have
on price.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing