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#11
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bulbs to LEDs
On 13/08/13 15:04, TimC wrote:
On 2013-08-13, James (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: On 12/08/13 16:43, Trent W. Buck wrote: James writes: On 06/08/13 18:41, Trent W. Buck wrote: I suspect the responses are all gonna be "I hate dynamos! Batteries are not that hard, just HTFU" so I haven't bothered to dig up hub specs &c, but I'll do so if there's interest. The bulb claims to be a Philips HPR60, 3.6V 2.4W. Interesting that the bulb is rated for such low voltage. What is the rating of the hub dynamo you have? Most dynamos and the required bulb are rated something like 6V, 3W. Now you've got me freaked out, because I tried a "HPR53 4V0.85A JAPAN" in it, and it didn't light up *at all*. (A replacement bulb finally arrived from LBS, and that's working, hooray.) Ah, well that's good. Perhaps the light housing has a voltage limiting zener diode or similar, to protect the 3.6V bulb from the full 6V. Or perhaps the original lighting circuit had the front and rear bulbs wired in series, so that the 6V was shared across two bulbs. I can't tell from here. Dynamos are current sources (not voltage sources). LEDs are current sinks (not voltage sinks). That's one way to look at it. Dynamos have sort of regulated current output due to the inductive impedance increasing proportionally with speed (X = wL). And yes, the I-V curve of LEDs has a fairly flat voltage independent of current, once a threshold of current is reached. Your 3W LED will typically have about 3 or less volts across it, and if you wired it up to a non-current limited 12v power supply, it would blow. Absolutely. However I have 4 LEDs, each with about 3.5V across at up to 1A, configured as a full bridge rectifier and connected directly across my 6V 3W dynamo. (Two LEDs in series, in parallel with two LEDs in series but connected to conduct in the opposite direction. And yes the reverse polarity breakdown threshold of each is about 5V, well above 3.5V.) If you hooked up an appropriate resistor in series with your 3W LED, and then the un-current-limited 12V power supply, then you'd end up with a voltage divider and the appropriate current flowing through the LED that caused it to have a ~3V voltage drop (with 9V and most of the power being dissipated by the resistor). But in the ideal case of having a current source, then the LED will just sink as much current as the source supplies. Both will match their voltage if you've got no resistor or anything else in the circuit. But of course, you don't presumably know the actual current limit of the dynamo - at least I've never seen it documented before. I measured the output voltage and current from my dynamo at home at various speeds with a fixed resistor load, and recorded and graphed the result. It gave me a good understanding of the output characteristics. There is also a set of test results for various dynamos he http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html. It's also instructive to consider the electrical model as an AC voltage source proportional to speed, and a resistive and inductive element. Note that the inductive reactance increases linearly with speed like the internally generated voltage. This is what limits the current. But given they are ~3W, it should be more or less right. The LED won't work perfectly at 2.9W and blow catastrophically at 3.1W. LEDs of different types *have* to be wired in series (the current source will just double its voltage output in order to maintain the same current going to 2 equal LEDs in series). Only if the LEDs can both handle the same current. You can get away with very similar lights being in parallel, until they age. Then one will start taking more current, until the power supply starts overpowering it, and there'll be thermal runaway and that LED will completely short out, rendering you with a Dark Emitting Diode. Well, my home made headlight has been in regular use (3 times a week) for the past year. I've descended some pretty big hills as well. Zero defects thus far. -- JS |
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#12
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bulbs to LEDs
TimC writes:
On 2013-08-13, James (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: Ah, well that's good. Perhaps the light housing has a voltage limiting zener diode or similar, to protect the 3.6V bulb from the full 6V. Or perhaps the original lighting circuit had the front and rear bulbs wired in series, so that the 6V was shared across two bulbs. I can't tell from here. LEDs of different types *have* to be wired in series (the current source will just double its voltage output in order to maintain the same current going to 2 equal LEDs in series). You can get away with very similar lights being in parallel, until they age. Then one will start taking more current, until the power supply starts overpowering it, and there'll be thermal runaway and that LED will completely short out, rendering you with a Dark Emitting Diode. FWIW, when the front halogen bulb was absent, the rear LED still worked fine -- and it would even activate a bit (maybe blinking, I don't remember, it's normally constant-on) when backing up, which it doesn't do with the working bulb in the front. Based on my high school electronics, I took that to mean they're wired in parallel. |
#13
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bulbs to LEDs
On 13/08/13 17:00, Trent W. Buck wrote:
TimC writes: On 2013-08-13, James (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: Ah, well that's good. Perhaps the light housing has a voltage limiting zener diode or similar, to protect the 3.6V bulb from the full 6V. Or perhaps the original lighting circuit had the front and rear bulbs wired in series, so that the 6V was shared across two bulbs. I can't tell from here. LEDs of different types *have* to be wired in series (the current source will just double its voltage output in order to maintain the same current going to 2 equal LEDs in series). You can get away with very similar lights being in parallel, until they age. Then one will start taking more current, until the power supply starts overpowering it, and there'll be thermal runaway and that LED will completely short out, rendering you with a Dark Emitting Diode. FWIW, when the front halogen bulb was absent, the rear LED still worked fine -- and it would even activate a bit (maybe blinking, I don't remember, it's normally constant-on) when backing up, which it doesn't do with the working bulb in the front. Based on my high school electronics, I took that to mean they're wired in parallel. Yup. I don't know what's in the rear light, but it could just use a resistor to limit the current to something safe for the LED inside with 6V supplied. Along similar lines, I've been thinking about adding a small low power LED to my headlight circuit, on a bendable lead so I can have a light over my bike computer at night. -- JS |
#14
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bulbs to LEDs
Zebee Johnstone writes:
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 07 Aug 2013 11:10:14 +1000 Trent W. Buck wrote: Zebee Johnstone writes: The dollar's just dived so it ain't as easy as it was, but look at bike24.de and see if there's anything you can come at. A couple of weeks ago my OEM bulb headlamp decided to get stuck on "dim" instead of the more useful on/auto/off settings it started with. So I finally got around to buying an LED-based replacement from bike24. IIRC it worked out at AUD70, of which about a third was shipping. Meh; I tend to view capital expenses as an investment. Arrived Tue, installed it Wed. Brief panic because until I hooked up the ground, the rear light was lighting up, but the front one wasn't. Used it the last two nights and it's *definitely* nicer than the bulb one, thanks for putting me onto bike24. It's not *super* bright, but I'm OK with that. Assuming both spec sheets are honest, I went from 17lux to 25lux. Most of my commute is under street lighting anyway. The light output is much whiter than the bulb, and the output is mostly in two rectangles, with the upper-middle bit brightest: +---+-------+---+ | | | | | +-------+ | | | +---------------+ But it does some funky optics so there's also dimmer light spilling around the edges (inc. straight down) as well. And it has a capacitor, so when stopped or going up a steep hill, it stays on. That always annoyed me with the previous one. One thing I didn't expect, is that it flickers a bit even at speed, whereas with a bulb that was only noticable when the bulb was only just getting enough juice to light up. The model I got was a B+M Classic (IIRC the "CSNDI" flavour). |
#15
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bulbs to LEDs
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:04:50 +1100
Trent W. Buck wrote: Zebee Johnstone writes: In aus.bicycle on Wed, 07 Aug 2013 11:10:14 +1000 Trent W. Buck wrote: Zebee Johnstone writes: The dollar's just dived so it ain't as easy as it was, but look at bike24.de and see if there's anything you can come at. A couple of weeks ago my OEM bulb headlamp decided to get stuck on "dim" instead of the more useful on/auto/off settings it started with. So I finally got around to buying an LED-based replacement from bike24. IIRC it worked out at AUD70, of which about a third was shipping. Meh; I tend to view capital expenses as an investment. There might be cheaper places, but I haven't found anything much cheaper as it seems to be more expensive EUR-AU than US-AU. Arrived Tue, installed it Wed. Brief panic because until I hooked up the ground, the rear light was lighting up, but the front one wasn't. Used it the last two nights and it's *definitely* nicer than the bulb one, thanks for putting me onto bike24. Yeah, I found that going from halogen on my 'bent to the LED IQ Fly. One thing I didn't expect, is that it flickers a bit even at speed, whereas with a bulb that was only noticable when the bulb was only just getting enough juice to light up. HAven't seen that on mine, wonder if it's an effect of the low power? OR maybe just a bad connection somewhere? Zebee |
#16
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bulbs to LEDs
Zebee Johnstone writes:
One thing I didn't expect, is that it flickers a bit even at speed, whereas with a bulb that was only noticable when the bulb was only just getting enough juice to light up. Haven't seen that on mine, wonder if it's an effect of the low power? OR maybe just a bad connection somewhere? I might still have a short in the wiring somewhere... |
#17
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bulbs to LEDs
On 14/11/13 01:04, Trent W. Buck wrote:
Zebee Johnstone writes: In aus.bicycle on Wed, 07 Aug 2013 11:10:14 +1000 Trent W. Buck wrote: Zebee Johnstone writes: The dollar's just dived so it ain't as easy as it was, but look at bike24.de and see if there's anything you can come at. A couple of weeks ago my OEM bulb headlamp decided to get stuck on "dim" instead of the more useful on/auto/off settings it started with. So I finally got around to buying an LED-based replacement from bike24. IIRC it worked out at AUD70, of which about a third was shipping. Meh; I tend to view capital expenses as an investment. Arrived Tue, installed it Wed. Brief panic because until I hooked up the ground, the rear light was lighting up, but the front one wasn't. Used it the last two nights and it's *definitely* nicer than the bulb one, thanks for putting me onto bike24. It's not *super* bright, but I'm OK with that. Assuming both spec sheets are honest, I went from 17lux to 25lux. Most of my commute is under street lighting anyway. The light output is much whiter than the bulb, and the output is mostly in two rectangles, with the upper-middle bit brightest: +---+-------+---+ | | | | | +-------+ | | | +---------------+ But it does some funky optics so there's also dimmer light spilling around the edges (inc. straight down) as well. And it has a capacitor, so when stopped or going up a steep hill, it stays on. That always annoyed me with the previous one. One thing I didn't expect, is that it flickers a bit even at speed, whereas with a bulb that was only noticable when the bulb was only just getting enough juice to light up. The model I got was a B+M Classic (IIRC the "CSNDI" flavour). I'm waiting for this one... http://www.xxcycle.com/busch-and-mul...ndi-04,,en.php -- JS |
#18
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bulbs to LEDs
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