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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution



 
 
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  #51  
Old May 8th 18, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-07 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:50:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

Re-shaping knobbies can be ok but people use these to deepen the
valleys as well. Also, take a closer look at the video and you can
see how he damages the "meat" next to the knobbies. That can
trigger a progressing hair fracture in the rubber next to the
knobbies and then somewhere in the boonies ... *POOF* ... tire is
gone. I won't likely cause injury but a non-rideable dirt bike 50mi
from anywhere can be very unpleasant.


Tread cutting is done regularly by MTB racers.
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...-to-cut-tires/ And,
of course, motorcycle racers. It doesn't lead to a failure unless you
penetrate the casing, and then you get a flat -- and not some
massive, tire-ending failure. The tire is not gone. I've booted
innumerable casing cuts and ridden home.



I also don't see how putting some shoe goo-ish substance on a
scuffed sidewall is so dangerous. I've ridden plenty of tires
with scuffed sidewalls with no patch at all. I just wore them
out. It's not like Doug is patching some gash, and in fact,
looking at the tire, it's hard to see the scuff.



Pictures Doug posted earlier clearly showed compromised and frayed
threads. These do not re-gain any strength whatsoever from such a
cosmetic "repair". It's like smearing Bondo over a structural crack
on a vehicle. We all know what can happen if the front road bike
tire blows on a fast downhill section of road.


Doug says it was minor and nothing in the pictures indicates a
serious problem.


Not serious? Put on your glasses and look again at the left side he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0

Even here you can see the thread starting to fray and fail almost
everywhere along a sort of "equator line":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.


Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure (which I
doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear flat if the
resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a dollar bill, boot
the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home. Yawn. None of this will
or could happen if he just kept an eye on the tire, which he is
doing. Bad casings will bulge long before they burst, if they every
burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?


But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine a
blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...



I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The kaboom
made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a stampede of the
rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was cleaning up the pieces
that had flown off the bike they came back. Probably curious enough
to see what's going on.


Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at 1,000
PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the ground,
landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off and smashed the
rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the light were found in
numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where the kaboom happened (took
a while to get the MTB to a stop, downhill). It also took out a charge
controller circuit board for the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some
metal pieces. Plus a hole in the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS and
cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are protected by an
aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The top trunk now rides on
a plywood plate which also allows me to quickly move it between MTB and
road bike or use the bare plate to faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front and back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick aluminum
false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to make
such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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  #52  
Old May 8th 18, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:00:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-05-07 06:43, sms wrote:
On 5/4/2018 4:51 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-04 15:07, sms wrote:
On 5/4/2018 10:52 AM, Doug Landau wrote:

With a $45 tire I do not expect to have to rant snipped

I spent another few minutes and $1 of gorilla snot on this tire :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdsokmbfixi7jf2/tire.jpg?dl=0

I'll get my 3K miles out of this gatorskin, no problem

OMG, what a terribly ridiculous thing to do to save a few bucks.


It reminds me of the guys who used some sort of glorified soldering
iron to cut "new tread" into their car tires when they were bald. To
save the expense of having to buy new ones.


https://www.hardlineproducts.com/product/tread-doctor-knobby-cutting-tool-for-usa/


Yup. Another accident waiting to happen. The ones I saw in Europe had
sort of a heated "cutting box" at the tip to "dregde" the tread valley.
It's really sick, just like glueing tire side walls is.



Really sick? Just as a fingernail file and a bent nail are when used
as a chain tool?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #53  
Old May 8th 18, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-07 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:50:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

Re-shaping knobbies can be ok but people use these to deepen the
valleys as well. Also, take a closer look at the video and you can
see how he damages the "meat" next to the knobbies. That can
trigger a progressing hair fracture in the rubber next to the
knobbies and then somewhere in the boonies ... *POOF* ... tire is
gone. I won't likely cause injury but a non-rideable dirt bike 50mi
from anywhere can be very unpleasant.


Tread cutting is done regularly by MTB racers.
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...-to-cut-tires/ And,
of course, motorcycle racers. It doesn't lead to a failure unless you
penetrate the casing, and then you get a flat -- and not some
massive, tire-ending failure. The tire is not gone. I've booted
innumerable casing cuts and ridden home.



I also don't see how putting some shoe goo-ish substance on a
scuffed sidewall is so dangerous. I've ridden plenty of tires
with scuffed sidewalls with no patch at all. I just wore them
out. It's not like Doug is patching some gash, and in fact,
looking at the tire, it's hard to see the scuff.



Pictures Doug posted earlier clearly showed compromised and frayed
threads. These do not re-gain any strength whatsoever from such a
cosmetic "repair". It's like smearing Bondo over a structural crack
on a vehicle. We all know what can happen if the front road bike
tire blows on a fast downhill section of road.


Doug says it was minor and nothing in the pictures indicates a
serious problem.


Not serious? Put on your glasses and look again at the left side he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0

Even here you can see the thread starting to fray and fail almost
everywhere along a sort of "equator line":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.


I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw some Shoe Goo on it.

Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure (which I
doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear flat if the
resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a dollar bill, boot
the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home. Yawn. None of this will
or could happen if he just kept an eye on the tire, which he is
doing. Bad casings will bulge long before they burst, if they every
burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles.



But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine a
blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...


I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The kaboom
made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a stampede of the
rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was cleaning up the pieces
that had flown off the bike they came back. Probably curious enough
to see what's going on.


Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at 1,000
PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the ground,
landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off and smashed the
rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the light were found in
numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where the kaboom happened (took
a while to get the MTB to a stop, downhill). It also took out a charge
controller circuit board for the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some
metal pieces. Plus a hole in the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS and
cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are protected by an
aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The top trunk now rides on
a plywood plate which also allows me to quickly move it between MTB and
road bike or use the bare plate to faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front and back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick aluminum
false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to make
such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal road bike not so much.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #54  
Old May 8th 18, 03:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 5/7/2018 9:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles.


On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the
front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel.
Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a
replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best
we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to
the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away.

On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest
of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as
I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to
that bike shop.

I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #55  
Old May 8th 18, 04:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:02:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2018 9:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles.


On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the
front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel.
Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a
replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best
we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to
the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away..

On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest
of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as
I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to
that bike shop.

I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi?


No, Joerg's tire would have exploded violently, blowing his body parts all over the road. He would have been mailed home in a giant Ziplock bag. Mundane mechanical failures are catastrophic, life endangering events for Joerg.

BTW, you guys sure did go north. I was further south on the Bikecentennial alignment through Colorado, Kansas and then Missery. It was an unremarkable trip from a tire standpoint except that the locals always wanted to know how many tires we had gone through. It was the question right after "where are you from." The only memorable part tire-wise was buying a couple Michelin tubes that I couldn't get to hold a patch. The mold release was nasty, and I had to sand the hell out of them to get anything to stick. I still have my first-generation Specialized folding Turbo spare from that trip -- which I never had to use and couldn't use now because its a 27" -- because that's what was more available back then (and Schrader valves).

-- Jay Beattie.



  #56  
Old May 8th 18, 11:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Mon, 7 May 2018 18:28:44 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-07 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:50:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip

Re-shaping knobbies can be ok but people use these to deepen the
valleys as well. Also, take a closer look at the video and you can
see how he damages the "meat" next to the knobbies. That can
trigger a progressing hair fracture in the rubber next to the
knobbies and then somewhere in the boonies ... *POOF* ... tire is
gone. I won't likely cause injury but a non-rideable dirt bike 50mi
from anywhere can be very unpleasant.

Tread cutting is done regularly by MTB racers.
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...-to-cut-tires/ And,
of course, motorcycle racers. It doesn't lead to a failure unless you
penetrate the casing, and then you get a flat -- and not some
massive, tire-ending failure. The tire is not gone. I've booted
innumerable casing cuts and ridden home.



I also don't see how putting some shoe goo-ish substance on a
scuffed sidewall is so dangerous. I've ridden plenty of tires
with scuffed sidewalls with no patch at all. I just wore them
out. It's not like Doug is patching some gash, and in fact,
looking at the tire, it's hard to see the scuff.



Pictures Doug posted earlier clearly showed compromised and frayed
threads. These do not re-gain any strength whatsoever from such a
cosmetic "repair". It's like smearing Bondo over a structural crack
on a vehicle. We all know what can happen if the front road bike
tire blows on a fast downhill section of road.

Doug says it was minor and nothing in the pictures indicates a
serious problem.


Not serious? Put on your glasses and look again at the left side he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0

Even here you can see the thread starting to fray and fail almost
everywhere along a sort of "equator line":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.


I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw some Shoe Goo on it.

Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure (which I
doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear flat if the
resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a dollar bill, boot
the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home. Yawn. None of this will
or could happen if he just kept an eye on the tire, which he is
doing. Bad casings will bulge long before they burst, if they every
burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife
from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles.



But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine a
blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...


I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The kaboom
made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a stampede of the
rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was cleaning up the pieces
that had flown off the bike they came back. Probably curious enough
to see what's going on.

Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at 1,000
PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the ground,
landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off and smashed the
rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the light were found in
numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where the kaboom happened (took
a while to get the MTB to a stop, downhill). It also took out a charge
controller circuit board for the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some
metal pieces. Plus a hole in the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS and
cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are protected by an
aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The top trunk now rides on
a plywood plate which also allows me to quickly move it between MTB and
road bike or use the bare plate to faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front and back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick aluminum
false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to make
such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic smashing rof a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal road bike not so much.

-- Jay Beattie.


One of the many things that one might speculate on is that MTB
professionals do not seem have the same, or even similar, tire
problems as reported here. And by professional I'm talking about
people who do things for a living.

We read that the only possible way for an amateur to complete a ride
on a single set of tires is to use the cheapest Thai made tires that
can be found and super thick inner tubes. 'Cause if you don't the side
walls blow out.

Are people who ride mountain bikes for a living running the cheapest
available Thai made tires? Are professional riders crippled with side
wall blow outs?

Of course, I'm not a professional but I can't even remember a side
wall blowing out, snakebite flats, yes, but seriously, I don't
believe I ever had a side "blow" out, an explosive event that
destroyed the side wall of the tire.

But Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. Lets see, Left foot on the
pedal, right leg over the frame, right, left, right, left...


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #57  
Old May 8th 18, 03:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-07 18:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-07 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:50:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip


[...]

Pictures Doug posted earlier clearly showed compromised and
frayed threads. These do not re-gain any strength whatsoever
from such a cosmetic "repair". It's like smearing Bondo over a
structural crack on a vehicle. We all know what can happen if
the front road bike tire blows on a fast downhill section of
road.

Doug says it was minor and nothing in the pictures indicates a
serious problem.


Not serious? Put on your glasses and look again at the left side
he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0

Even here you can see the thread starting to fray and fail almost
everywhere along a sort of "equator line":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.


I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not
bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire
(they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw some
Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!


Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure (which
I doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear flat if
the resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a dollar bill,
boot the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home. Yawn. None of
this will or could happen if he just kept an eye on the tire,
which he is doing. Bad casings will bulge long before they burst,
if they every burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your
wife from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next
10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking
about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire,
I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill
for many, many miles.


If I see this on a tire, it'll be gone after I get home.



But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine
a blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...


I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The
kaboom made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a stampede
of the rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was cleaning up the
pieces that had flown off the bike they came back. Probably
curious enough to see what's going on.

Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at
1,000 PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target
practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the
ground, landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off
and smashed the rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the
light were found in numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where
the kaboom happened (took a while to get the MTB to a stop,
downhill). It also took out a charge controller circuit board for
the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some metal pieces. Plus a hole in
the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS
and cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are
protected by an aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The
top trunk now rides on a plywood plate which also allows me to
quickly move it between MTB and road bike or use the bare plate to
faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front and
back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick
aluminum false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to
make such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic
smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a
scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about
exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax
ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal
road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way back
home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane tunnel and I
wanted to beat the traffic light that guided direction. The long descent
before the tunnel helped me get to speed. I must have hit some sort of
pothole in the fairly dark tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that
tunnel but separated from my road bike and the school pack came rolling
out last according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on one
side because the other hurt a lot.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #58  
Old May 8th 18, 03:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-08 03:18, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2018 18:28:44 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-07 14:03, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:50:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
snip

Re-shaping knobbies can be ok but people use these to deepen
the valleys as well. Also, take a closer look at the video
and you can see how he damages the "meat" next to the
knobbies. That can trigger a progressing hair fracture in the
rubber next to the knobbies and then somewhere in the boonies
... *POOF* ... tire is gone. I won't likely cause injury but
a non-rideable dirt bike 50mi from anywhere can be very
unpleasant.

Tread cutting is done regularly by MTB racers.
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...-to-cut-tires/
And, of course, motorcycle racers. It doesn't lead to a failure
unless you penetrate the casing, and then you get a flat -- and
not some massive, tire-ending failure. The tire is not gone.
I've booted innumerable casing cuts and ridden home.



I also don't see how putting some shoe goo-ish substance
on a scuffed sidewall is so dangerous. I've ridden plenty
of tires with scuffed sidewalls with no patch at all. I
just wore them out. It's not like Doug is patching some
gash, and in fact, looking at the tire, it's hard to see
the scuff.



Pictures Doug posted earlier clearly showed compromised and
frayed threads. These do not re-gain any strength whatsoever
from such a cosmetic "repair". It's like smearing Bondo over
a structural crack on a vehicle. We all know what can happen
if the front road bike tire blows on a fast downhill section
of road.

Doug says it was minor and nothing in the pictures indicates a
serious problem.


Not serious? Put on your glasses and look again at the left side
he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z270cz94b...30730.jpg?dl=0



Even here you can see the thread starting to fray and fail almost
everywhere along a sort of "equator line":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5r35u5y7...30742.jpg?dl=0



That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.

I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not
bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire
(they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw
some Shoe Goo on it.

Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure
(which I doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear
flat if the resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a
dollar bill, boot the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home.
Yawn. None of this will or could happen if he just kept an eye
on the tire, which he is doing. Bad casings will bulge long
before they burst, if they every burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call
your wife from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the
next 10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're
talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the
front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted
with a $1 bill for many, many miles.



But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine
a blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...


I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The
kaboom made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a
stampede of the rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was
cleaning up the pieces that had flown off the bike they came
back. Probably curious enough to see what's going on.

Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at
1,000 PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target
practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the
ground, landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off
and smashed the rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the
light were found in numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where
the kaboom happened (took a while to get the MTB to a stop,
downhill). It also took out a charge controller circuit board for
the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some metal pieces. Plus a hole
in the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS
and cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are
protected by an aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The
top trunk now rides on a plywood plate which also allows me to
quickly move it between MTB and road bike or use the bare plate
to faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front
and back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick
aluminum false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and
stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to
make such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some
epic smashing rof a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding
a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about
exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax
ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal
road bike not so much.

-- Jay Beattie.


One of the many things that one might speculate on is that MTB
professionals do not seem have the same, or even similar, tire
problems as reported here. And by professional I'm talking about
people who do things for a living.

We read that the only possible way for an amateur to complete a ride
on a single set of tires is to use the cheapest Thai made tires that
can be found and super thick inner tubes. 'Cause if you don't the
side walls blow out.

Are people who ride mountain bikes for a living running the cheapest
available Thai made tires? Are professional riders crippled with
side wall blow outs?

Of course, I'm not a professional but I can't even remember a side
wall blowing out, snakebite flats, yes, but seriously, I don't
believe I ever had a side "blow" out, an explosive event that
destroyed the side wall of the tire.

But Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. Lets see, Left foot on the
pedal, right leg over the frame, right, left, right, left...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoCSzVmhhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnf7VdofZF0


--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #59  
Old May 8th 18, 03:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On 2018-05-07 17:35, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:00:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-05-07 06:43, sms wrote:
On 5/4/2018 4:51 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-04 15:07, sms wrote:
On 5/4/2018 10:52 AM, Doug Landau wrote:

With a $45 tire I do not expect to have to rant snipped

I spent another few minutes and $1 of gorilla snot on this tire :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdsokmbfixi7jf2/tire.jpg?dl=0

I'll get my 3K miles out of this gatorskin, no problem

OMG, what a terribly ridiculous thing to do to save a few bucks.


It reminds me of the guys who used some sort of glorified soldering
iron to cut "new tread" into their car tires when they were bald. To
save the expense of having to buy new ones.

https://www.hardlineproducts.com/product/tread-doctor-knobby-cutting-tool-for-usa/


Yup. Another accident waiting to happen. The ones I saw in Europe had
sort of a heated "cutting box" at the tip to "dregde" the tread valley.
It's really sick, just like glueing tire side walls is.



Really sick? Just as a fingernail file and a bent nail are when used
as a chain tool?


That works. File usually not even needed, just a hardened nail (the kind
to drive into concrete, pointy tip ground down) and a steel nut on the
other side. The first five decades of my life I did not have a chain
tool yet managed to change dozens of chains. The ones I used rarely had
a missing link. I had to make sure that I did that job when the folks in
the apartment below weren't home because the process is loud.

However, I just splurged and in a few days this will arrive:

https://www.crankbrothers.com/produc...nt=53958754055

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #60  
Old May 8th 18, 04:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
snip

That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went.


I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not
bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire
(they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw some
Shoe Goo on it.


I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some
threads showing? Aw, heck!


Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars. We're not talking about MTBs. We're not talking about a fox in a box. We're talking about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin.



Assuming his casing scuff developed into a casing failure (which
I doubt), he would get a rear blow-out -- or just a rear flat if
the resulting hole were small. He could fold-over a dollar bill,
boot the tire, put in a spare tube and ride home. Yawn. None of
this will or could happen if he just kept an eye on the tire,
which he is doing. Bad casings will bulge long before they burst,
if they every burst.


And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your
wife from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next
10-20 days?


Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking
about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire,
I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill
for many, many miles.


If I see this on a tire, it'll be gone after I get home.



But things are different out in the wild west Jay. Imagine
a blowout when the mountain lions are circling. ...


I had cattle around me when that happened last time. The
kaboom made them run away. Luckily that didn't cause a stampede
of the rest of the herd. Strangely, while I was cleaning up the
pieces that had flown off the bike they came back. Probably
curious enough to see what's going on.

Pieces flying off the bike? What? Do you run your tires at
1,000 PSI? Are you using your wheels for shotgun target
practice?


No, 55-60psi, gnarly section with loose rocks. Rear came off the
ground, landed ... *KABOOM* ... thwock. A chunk of tire flew off
and smashed the rear light off of the bike. The remnants of the
light were found in numerous pieces in a 10ft radius around where
the kaboom happened (took a while to get the MTB to a stop,
downhill). It also took out a charge controller circuit board for
the Li-Ion lighting battery. Then some metal pieces. Plus a hole in
the trunk bag.

I learned my lesson from that. Now anything electronic is in ABS
and cast aluminum enclosures. That and the upper trunk are
protected by an aluminum strut that is shaped as a U-profile. The
top trunk now rides on a plywood plate which also allows me to
quickly move it between MTB and road bike or use the bare plate to
faster larger loads.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

The bike still looks the same except now it has 8" rotors front and
back.

There is also a third protection layer in the shape of a thick
aluminum false bottom below, mainly to catch rocks, mud and stuff:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

This has turned out to be almost indestructible but you have to
make such stuff yourself. The industry doesn't get it.


Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic
smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a
scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about
exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax
ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal
road bike not so much.


Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way back
home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane tunnel and I
wanted to beat the traffic light that guided direction. The long descent
before the tunnel helped me get to speed. I must have hit some sort of
pothole in the fairly dark tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that
tunnel but separated from my road bike and the school pack came rolling
out last according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other
side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on one
side because the other hurt a lot.


So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires?

You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers.

BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash. Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped pedaling. http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.




 




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