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#31
July 28th 03, 07:20 AM
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Unbridled Hostility
Kevan Smith /\/\
wrote in part: Do they have one for donuts, too? I think I can sweep all your club trophies. Think again, pal. I'm close enough to Mike K's area that I could be your competition and only a fool would bet against a cop in a donut eating contest. I've been training diligently for 20 years. ;-) Regards, Bob Hunt 
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#33
July 28th 03, 05:37 PM
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Unbridled Hostility
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:59:30 -0700, Zoot Katz
wrote: One tofu veggie dog is sufficient for me, thanks. That would be more than enough for me. larry -- To reply by e-mail, be polite. Rudeness will get you nowhere.
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#34
July 28th 03, 08:13 PM
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Unbridled Hostility
In article ,
(Claire Petersky) wrote: Pray for me, friends, pray for me. You got it Claire! Dave in Minnesota
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#35
July 29th 03, 03:04 AM
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Unbridled Hostility
I'm hanging this off of Tom's post, but it's sort of a longish reply
to a number of them... (Steve McDonald) wrote in message ... The resistance of the mansion-dwellers to bikes near their homes is due to simple, primitive thinking. They feel that if people on lowly, cheap vehicles can pass nearby, then their most substantial display of conspicuous consumption will be degraded. Actually, generally speaking, you can't see these people's houses. The steep slope and number of trees between the road and the where the houses sit on the lake or up on the hill means that they are hidden. Don't bother confronting or trying to reason with them, but find ways to ignore or bypass them. The real audience is the City Council. But if the City Council does not want discord when the recommendation is presented to them – that would be unseemly. They want all the yelling to happen before that time. If we can't compromise, nothing will be done. The road will continue to deteriorate; unsafe conditions will only worsen for everyone. etent (Trudi Marrapodi) wrote in message ... I think what Claire has run into is your typical people who think, now that they're wealthy (or maybe because they've always been wealthy), they can throw money at anything they personally don't like, for whatever reason, and make it go away. Sounds like the spoiled brats need to learn a lesson. Which is why, when we won in Redmond, the mayor of the City of Woodinville wrote a letter in congratulations to the Redmond City Council, for standing up to the wealthy lakeside homeowners. I'm don't know if our council has similar balls. When I asked a parkway resident what alternative the cars should take, rather than the parkway, the answer was 164th Avenue, ie, mostly a neighborhood of these little 1950s starter home ramblers that probably have the lowest housing values in our city. I was sorely tempted to ask why people who live right on a road (rather than having major set-backs with a big curtain of trees) should have all the cars whizzing by, but again, this was my time to listen, not argue. Patrick Lamb wrote in message ... Just out of curiosity, has anyone surveyed the area for the density of Asperger's Syndrome-afflicted residents? It sounds to me as though this should be a support group, instead of a city-sponsored barbecue. (If AS support group isn't already an oxymoron!) Y'know, I have some AS members of my immediate and extended family, and I'd much rather deal with Aspies than deal with this crowd. My experience with Aspies is that they have no hidden agenda – what you see is what you get – and ones I know are terribly concerned with fairness. I could work with Aspies. (I should guess that there's probably a high proportion of residents, if it is a MS suburb, that's getting to middle age and finding it difficult to keep up with the endless 20-hour work days, enormous pressure, and unrealistic deadlines. And if they've been there long enough to buy the multi-million houses with the proceeds of stock options, they probably don't know or don't remember that sane work places exist. Or that it's possible to work AND have a life...) I will just note that I believe that people who live along the lake are generally not Microsofties, nor do Microsofties live along the lake. Rather, it is the Microsoft employees who are targeted here as the Evil Ones who speed along the parkway, desperate to make it into the enslavement camp in a timely fashion. In fact, you'd find a number of current and former MS employees among the cyclists who will be fighting for these facilities, as the parkway is a major bike-commuting route. Thinking of the Redmond effort, I'm now realizing that nearly all of the people who fought for the bicycle and pedestrian improvements were either existing or former MS employees, or married to one, or both. Rather, the people who I met at the barbecue were older (50s and 60s) boating types. If I were to guess their PRIZM demographic group, I'd say Pools and Patios (http://houseandhome.msn.com/pickaplace/demographicdetail.aspx?id=4&NHName=Bellevue+(98008 )&Zip=98008&County=King&State=WA&sRegion=p%3a7600& src=nf or if you prefer: http://tinyurl.com/cf3c) (Chalo) wrote in message . com... The Eastside is lost, Claire. There really isn't anything there worth trying to improve. That area suffers the characteristic blight of many suburbs; it's an anti-community of people who chose their place of residence based on what they were trying to avoid, rather than on an environment they wanted to be a part of. It's a living testament to how fear, greed, arrogance and hate are antithetical to right action. Move into town; you'll recognize a lot more rational human beings around you. Someone from a bicycling organization deigned to come to the Eastside (first time that's happened that I've noticed) and attended the barbecue. Someone else from the bike-ped advisory group and I talked with him for a bit, and rather than him having anything constructive to say, he spent 90% of his air time with us putting down the Eastside. Chalo, I know you meant only the best when you wrote unpleasant things about where I grew up and where I've lived about three-quarters of my life, because you invited me to leave it and go to some place that you consider to be more enlightened. However, believe it or not, I like my house and my little neighborhood, and unlike your stereotypes, not all people around me are full of all the nasty attributes you listed. You may not believe that there is anything to improve – maybe I should leave it as that I beg to differ. (Tom Keats) speculated in message ... I wonder if there are any Native land claims on this area. Archeology shows that natives lived along the lake as early as 6,000 years ago, with a major settlement at the Redmond end of the lake around 1000 BCE. In the 1850s, the Sammamish clan of the Duwamish tribe numbered about one hundred. The usual hostilities ensued between white settlers and the natives, and they were eventually either killed or disbursed. The remnants of this band currently live with the Tulalips near Everett. Warm Regards, Claire Petersky ) Home of the meditative cyclist: http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/ Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
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#36
July 29th 03, 07:05 AM
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Unbridled Hostility
Claire Petersky wrote:
One of the things that was very helpful was having *local* residents speak on the behalf of the project. As a Bellevue resident, I mostly kept my mouth shut publicly, and having a Seattle person speak would have been at best neutral. I doubt it would matter who spoke out. These people are all part of the religion of "No Change". They are comfortable in their niche, and they don't care about anything else. Anything that changes their environment is greeted not with a rational balancing of relative good and bad aspects, but rationalization. i.e. I don't like it, so here's a list of reasons to justify why I don't like it. I know I would like to see the project go through, because I do use the road everyday. I travel on the side of the road that is decently traffic friendly (even if the pavement does needs work). But I do hate to see the bike commuters coming the other way (riding against traffic). Ick. -- Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "Nothing says 'This is serious' like a corpse on the floor." -Thanks to Michelle Wincek
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#37
July 29th 03, 08:34 PM
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Unbridled Hostility
Claire wrote:
... One of the things that was very helpful was having *local* residents speak on the behalf of the project. As a Bellevue resident, I mostly kept my mouth shut publicly, and having a Seattle person speak would have been at best neutral. One thing that will help is that out of my forty-ahem years of life, all but ten of them have been spent as a Bellevue resident. You know about the popsicle index? It's a measure of the quality of life for a community, and it works like this: it's the percentage of people who would feel comfortable sending their kid to the local convenience store to buy a popsicle. When I was a kid, my best friend lived on the lake (when normal people could afford to live on the lake), and we'd walk from her house to the Little Store to buy popsicles. I can tell that story, and ask, what's the popsicle index for that road today? Outside agitators, especially spandex clad and from Seattle, are highly, highly suspicious. If you say you are a local resident, when you come in with your kids, when you talk about safety for your children, not just yourself -- these are winners. What would be great would be to find a lakeside resident willing to speak on the behalf of the project, but peer pressure is very great. On the Redmond project we had lakeside residents tell us privately that they supported the City's improvements, but didn't dare say anything because they have to live next door to all these people for the rest of their lives, and don't want to stick their necks out.... How about contacting the local school and finding someone in the PTO who's an advocate for the Safe Routes to School thing? Although the Pool & Patio types are pretty much out of the kid business, there's gotta be some older dad with a young wife who is So Concerned About Our Children. Last fall I attended a SRTS seminar (co-sponsored by state DOT) and met with a Mother type who lives in a 'hood with a golf course and no sidewalks. Their fear is that the 19th-holers will hit children trying to walk anywhere, so it's "soccer moms, start your engines!" They wanted more concrete to make themselves feel safe. I turned her on to the idea of a walk/bike to school day, and hallelulah! She became the local contact for this effort! (I also suggested increased enforcement around closing time, traffic calming, neighborhood watch to get the kids to & from safely, and other non-engineering endeavors.) You could also sneak in some info on property values from other locales where rail-trails are being implemented. Not quite the same thing, but even those who typically voiced the loudest opposition (about vagrants riding out from the rail yards and dumping trash, stealing their stuff, and urinating) change their tune when the trail turns out to be a realtor feature. Maybe the car repair angle? Those busted-up roads have to be affecting the suspension in the Beemer. Traffic safety? Swerving around potholes might smash into someone's land yacht or landscaping. Fire truck thing: sounds like an earthquake-sort of land use to me. Can they get insurance? Are they on city water (with hydrants)? They can always make their lucious approach drives into switchbacks and landscape the heck out of them. Maybe they need private fire service on a higher elevation. As for private gated road: not if they want maintenance and police protection and mail delivery. HTH. What a potential headache. --Karen M.
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#38
July 30th 03, 08:10 AM
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Unbridled Hostility
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