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  #21  
Old January 11th 18, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,847
Default handlebar

On 1/11/2018 12:31 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2018 9:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 5:57 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

But unlike aluminum ones, stainless steel bars are
very rare, if not nonexistent.

Just because your weight-weenie, replace after one season
or die, racer LBS
doesn't carry them?* Chances are it doesn't offer full
Joergian-strength
cromo bars either.


Here in America, aluminum seems to be the default material
for handlebars on any adult bike above department store
quality. Steel handlebars are typically found on budget
bikes. There are some steel handlebars available for higher
quality bikes, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of
a set made of stainless steel.

The aluminum upright bars I bought came from a bike shop in
a major city selling a wide variety of good bikes, including
(for example) a very sweet Bianchi city bike that I
test-rode. The bars cost me $7 on sale. They have been on
the city bike I built for perhaps five years now. I've not
replaced them this season or any other season, and I doubt I
ever will; and I very much doubt that they'll kill me.

A few shapes I remember Utopia offers, or at least used to
offer, in
stainless steel aren't in ergotec's 2018 issue.* They
might slowly get
replaced by "MAS-Nb" steel.* But it still shows some.


Jute claimed aluminum ones were "specialty items." Which are
more common in the catalog - stainless steel or aluminum?



British made Raleigh Sports had the original chromed steel North Road
handlebar and the Raleigh Sprite came with the All Rounder shape also in
chromed steel. These were both high volume popular models and much
copied for many years after their demise.


But only very rarely in _stainless_ steel, AFAIK.

And it raises the question: Why would someone choose to manufacture or
to buy a _stainless_ steel handlebar? What would be the practical
advantage over chromed steel?


--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #22  
Old January 11th 18, 06:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,847
Default handlebar

On 1/11/2018 12:31 PM, sms wrote:
On 1/11/2018 2:57 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But unlike aluminum ones, stainless steel bars are
very rare, if not nonexistent.


Just because your weight-weenie, replace after one season or die,
racer LBS
doesn't carry them?* Chances are it doesn't offer full Joergian-strength
cromo bars either.

I chuckled at your "non-existent" stainless steel bars. It's so dumb,
nobody will believe it. I have two stainless steel handlebars on
bikes in
the loft, and probably more in boxes of components. One I chose from the
Humpert catalogue to be fitted to my Utopia Kranich as a temporary
measure
just to see how I liked something different from my normal North Road
Bars.
In Europe Humpert bars are the mainstream for upscale bikes, and they're
nutters for testing components. If they list stainless bars, you may be
absolutely certain there is nothing wrong with stainless bars.

You should check your facts, Franki-boy.
Andre Jute
Always happy to help

PS The Humpert catalogue also comes in English


http://ergotec.de/files/service/downloads/Humpert-Katalog_2018.pdf

A few shapes I remember Utopia offers, or at least used to offer, in
stainless steel aren't in ergotec's 2018 issue.* They might slowly get
replaced by "MAS-Nb" steel.* But it still shows some.


You can also order stainless steel bars via Aliexpress, the consumer
branch of Alibaba:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-stainless-steel-Arcuate-one-shaped-handlebar-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter-recreational-old-cycling/32730342044.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-stainless-steel-swallow-shaped-handlebar-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter-recreational-old-bar/32654022918.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-Accessories-stainless-steel-U-shaped-handlebar-bend-to-the-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter/32653525372.html


I think there's only a very short list of things one _cannot_ buy from
China.

The presence of an item on Ali Express doesn't indicate its popularity,
let alone its value.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #23  
Old January 11th 18, 06:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 743
Default handlebar

Frank Krygowski wrote:

I think there's only a very short list of
things one _cannot_ buy from China.

The presence of an item on Ali Express
doesn't indicate its popularity


The best way to test this is to put on a pair
of brand new shoes and go to the city and
investigate 100 bikes.

The only (?) problem is, isn't it true that
while steel is magnetic, aluminium is
nonmagnetic, only stainless steel is
nonmagnetic as well!

How does one separate the the cat from
the ermines?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #24  
Old January 11th 18, 08:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 105
Default handlebar

On 11/01/2018 1:42 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

I think there's only a very short list of
things one _cannot_ buy from China.

The presence of an item on Ali Express
doesn't indicate its popularity


The best way to test this is to put on a pair
of brand new shoes and go to the city and
investigate 100 bikes.

The only (?) problem is, isn't it true that
while steel is magnetic, aluminium is
nonmagnetic, only stainless steel is
nonmagnetic as well!

How does one separate the the cat from
the ermines?


Depends on the iron content in the stainless among other things. Some
are magnetic and some are not.
  #25  
Old January 11th 18, 08:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 743
Default handlebar

Duane wrote:

Depends on the iron content in the stainless
among other things. Some are magnetic and
some are not.


OK, at least the A4 stainless steel boltware
I have isn't magnetic.

So now we're at:

aluminium - nonmagnetic;

steel - magnetic, only

stainless steel - sometimes magnetic

How can anything be easier than using a magnet?
Well, it seems how easy something is to do
isn't the only parameter...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #26  
Old January 11th 18, 08:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 105
Default handlebar

On 11/01/2018 3:12 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

Depends on the iron content in the stainless
among other things. Some are magnetic and
some are not.


OK, at least the A4 stainless steel boltware
I have isn't magnetic.

So now we're at:

aluminium - nonmagnetic;

steel - magnetic, only

stainless steel - sometimes magnetic

How can anything be easier than using a magnet?
Well, it seems how easy something is to do
isn't the only parameter...


What are is your interest in the material? Weight? Strength? Rust?

  #27  
Old January 11th 18, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,384
Default handlebar

On 1/11/2018 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 12:31 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2018 9:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 5:57 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

But unlike aluminum ones, stainless steel bars are
very rare, if not nonexistent.

Just because your weight-weenie, replace after one season
or die, racer LBS
doesn't carry them? Chances are it doesn't offer full
Joergian-strength
cromo bars either.

Here in America, aluminum seems to be the default material
for handlebars on any adult bike above department store
quality. Steel handlebars are typically found on budget
bikes. There are some steel handlebars available for higher
quality bikes, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of
a set made of stainless steel.

The aluminum upright bars I bought came from a bike shop in
a major city selling a wide variety of good bikes, including
(for example) a very sweet Bianchi city bike that I
test-rode. The bars cost me $7 on sale. They have been on
the city bike I built for perhaps five years now. I've not
replaced them this season or any other season, and I doubt I
ever will; and I very much doubt that they'll kill me.

A few shapes I remember Utopia offers, or at least used to
offer, in
stainless steel aren't in ergotec's 2018 issue. They
might slowly get
replaced by "MAS-Nb" steel. But it still shows some.

Jute claimed aluminum ones were "specialty items." Which are
more common in the catalog - stainless steel or aluminum?



British made Raleigh Sports had the original chromed steel
North Road handlebar and the Raleigh Sprite came with the
All Rounder shape also in chromed steel. These were both
high volume popular models and much copied for many years
after their demise.


But only very rarely in _stainless_ steel, AFAIK.

And it raises the question: Why would someone choose to
manufacture or to buy a _stainless_ steel handlebar? What
would be the practical advantage over chromed steel?



At least in USA for the past 50 years, stainless is
vanishingly rare for bicycle handlebars. Given chinese
character and business practices generally, I would fully
expect a 'stainless' handlebar to be mild steel with UCP plate.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #28  
Old January 11th 18, 09:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,847
Default handlebar

On 1/11/2018 3:12 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

Depends on the iron content in the stainless
among other things. Some are magnetic and
some are not.


OK, at least the A4 stainless steel boltware
I have isn't magnetic.

So now we're at:

aluminium - nonmagnetic;

steel - magnetic, only

stainless steel - sometimes magnetic

How can anything be easier than using a magnet?
Well, it seems how easy something is to do
isn't the only parameter...


The appearance of the metals is often a clue, as can be their response
to tapping with a small object.

I think you should develop some experience telling them apart. Perhaps
take a magnet to various metal objects around your home. Many of your
kitchen utensils will probably be stainless steel - things like forks,
spoons, knives, perhaps measuring cups. I suspect few if any will be
aluminum.

In my kitchen, I find that knives are magnetic. They're almost certainly
martensitic stainless steel, which can be hardened. Our measuring cups
and measuring spoons are non-magnetic, which means they're probably
austenitic. Most of our metal bowls and pots are non-magnetic, but one
pot is magnetic. But all are very different in appearance from aluminum.
Also, obviously, aluminum is noticeably less dense. Unless it's
anodized, it's also softer (i.e. easier to scratch).

Also check the bikes you have available. On all but the cheapest bikes,
the caliper brakes, cranks, rims, hubs, brake and shift levers will
probably be aluminum. Usually, only spokes and perhaps cables are
stainless steel objects on bikes. Cranks, rims and things that might be
steel on lower-quality bikes are much more likely to be chrome plated
instead of made of stainless steel. Stainless tends to be expensive and
much more difficult to work with.

Admittedly, it's not 100% easy to tell the difference every time, since
there are various coatings available. But experience can teach you a lot.

BTW, why are you interested in telling the difference between handlebar
materials?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old January 11th 18, 10:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 220
Default handlebar

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 9:12:49 PM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

Depends on the iron content in the stainless
among other things. Some are magnetic and
some are not.


OK, at least the A4 stainless steel boltware
I have isn't magnetic.

So now we're at:

aluminium - nonmagnetic;

steel - magnetic, only

stainless steel - sometimes magnetic

How can anything be easier than using a magnet?
Well, it seems how easy something is to do
isn't the only parameter...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


Anybody with some knowledge can tell the difference between a stainless steel handlebar or a aluminum handlebar without a magnet. Trust me your bikes don't have a stainless steel handlebar. What is the purpose of your silly questions? Oh never mind...

Lou
  #30  
Old January 11th 18, 10:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,626
Default handlebar

On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 6:22:27 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2018 12:31 PM, sms wrote:
On 1/11/2018 2:57 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But unlike aluminum ones, stainless steel bars are
very rare, if not nonexistent.

Just because your weight-weenie, replace after one season or die,
racer LBS
doesn't carry them?* Chances are it doesn't offer full Joergian-strength
cromo bars either.

I chuckled at your "non-existent" stainless steel bars. It's so dumb,
nobody will believe it. I have two stainless steel handlebars on
bikes in
the loft, and probably more in boxes of components. One I chose from the
Humpert catalogue to be fitted to my Utopia Kranich as a temporary
measure
just to see how I liked something different from my normal North Road
Bars.
In Europe Humpert bars are the mainstream for upscale bikes, and they're
nutters for testing components. If they list stainless bars, you may be
absolutely certain there is nothing wrong with stainless bars.

You should check your facts, Franki-boy.
Andre Jute
Always happy to help

PS The Humpert catalogue also comes in English

http://ergotec.de/files/service/downloads/Humpert-Katalog_2018.pdf

A few shapes I remember Utopia offers, or at least used to offer, in
stainless steel aren't in ergotec's 2018 issue.* They might slowly get
replaced by "MAS-Nb" steel.* But it still shows some.


You can also order stainless steel bars via Aliexpress, the consumer
branch of Alibaba:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-stainless-steel-Arcuate-one-shaped-handlebar-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter-recreational-old-cycling/32730342044.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-stainless-steel-swallow-shaped-handlebar-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter-recreational-old-bar/32654022918.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-Accessories-stainless-steel-U-shaped-handlebar-bend-to-the-retro-Vintage-bike-handlebar-city-commuter/32653525372.html


I think there's only a very short list of things one _cannot_ buy from
China.


Crap. I buy stuff from China all the time, and the holes in their manufacture lists really display the perils of central planning, for instance by massive overproduction of the most popular items with zero production of useful, needful and wanted but less popular items. You shouldn't spout forth on economics, Franki-boy. You don't know **** about it.

The presence of an item on Ali Express doesn't indicate its popularity,
let alone its value.


Oh, dear. More cod-economics from Franki-boy. In fact, what the presence of an item on Aliexpress signals is precisely it's popularity or perceived popularity. See also above.

As for value, you're behind the times, Franki-boy. It used to be that the Japanese manufacturer of high-value high-voltage hi-fi I designed for him had to go to China and throw items not built to the spec I approved on the floor, and indulge in shouting matches, to get components I wouldn't reject when the production sample arrived, but that was fifteen. twenty years ago. You're just ignorant and prejudiced, Krygowski.

As for value, the Chinese offer superb value to those who know what they want and how to evaluate it. Much of what you buy in America under familiar brand names is made in China.

- Frank Krygowski


Why are the opinions you peddle so useless, and ofttimes untrue, Franki-boy?

Andre Jute
The power of experience and adaptability
 




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