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Op zaterdag 10 april 2021 om 16:21:46 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit. Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to specify with your unit conversions. Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have Whitworth stuff. Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my Series IIa. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be the most frequently used chart in my work area. -- - Frank Krygowski Pfff.. really. I have no chart hanging in my 'Workshop', never needed one. Its M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M10 or M12 and I can indentify them by just looking at them and then I also know what wrench, allen key or torx bit to use. It the very rare case I end up with other fasteners the part end up in the garbage bin. Lou |
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#22
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On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the Range Rover towed when it broke down. |
#23
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On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:04:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op zaterdag 10 april 2021 om 16:21:46 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski: On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit. Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to specify with your unit conversions. Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have Whitworth stuff. Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my Series IIa. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be the most frequently used chart in my work area. -- - Frank Krygowski Pfff.. really. I have no chart hanging in my 'Workshop', never needed one.. Its M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M10 or M12 and I can indentify them by just looking at them and then I also know what wrench, allen key or torx bit to use. It the very rare case I end up with other fasteners the part end up in the garbage bin. That is certainly true of my bicycle "workshop." With bikes, your options are pretty limited in terms of fasteners, and many of the fasteners are part specific, so you just look at them and know what works with what -- and typically you order specific replacements and don't pick one out of a bolt drawer at home or at the hardware store. I do measure OD of plumbing parts and then check on line for pipe thread size. https://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Fi...es-threads.pdf -- Jay Beattie. |
#24
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On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 11:32:28 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the Range Rover towed when it broke down. Huh. I've watched a few National Geographic shows over the past half century and all of them showed Range Rovers and Land Cruisers driving around the Sahara or Burma. Vehicles that looked like they had been in service since Japan or England conquered and subjugated the land and people. I always thought of Range Rovers as being reliable. When you are driving across Africa with lions and elephants and water buffalo chasing you, reliability is kind of important. |
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:32:27 -0700, sms
wrote: On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the Range Rover towed when it broke down. Chuckle. My former palatial office was conveniently located near a freeway off ramp. Therefore, my office was regularly visited by friends and customers (the difference is that the customers actually pay me) for emergency automobile service, usually late at night, when they knew I would still be working. The usual problems were flat tires, cooling system problems, and blown fuses. One such visitor arrived with a rather old Range Rover that I expressed an interest in purchasing. It literally fell apart as it entered the parking lot. There was hardware and fluids all over the road. It's common knowledge that a British car that does NOT leak fluids has something wrong with it, but this was ridiculous. I wasted two days patching together the Range Rover so that it could be safely driven to a mechanic. For obvious reasons, I elected not to buy it. As for towing a Land Rover (not a Range Rover), I drove it about 150,000 miles and only needed to be towed once (when I drove it into a ditch). What I found amazing was the number of parts that could fall off the Land Rover, and it would continue to run. I was also not thrilled with having to spend every Saturday under the car fixing something. It seems that early Land Rovers were built in layers. When a problem was discovered, a suitable band-aid was contrived to hide the problem. It was probably considered sacrilege to admit to a design problem, much less to fix it. My favorite example was a metal "heat shield" that was installed between the spark plugs and the firewall. Getting access to the spark plugs was possible, but would have been much easier if the heat shield was removed. So, I removed it. Nothing happened until I reached about 45 mph, when the engine compartment transformed itself into a rather loud giant whistle or flute. Apparently, the "heat shield" was not a heat shield but rather a method of detuning the acoustic resonance of the engine compartment. Despite all the horror stories, I really miss my 1970 Land Rover Series IIa. It turned driving and commuting into an adventure. http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/land_rover1.jpg http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/index.html#land_rover3.jpg Sniff... -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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On 4/10/2021 9:54 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip That is certainly true of my bicycle "workshop." With bikes, your options are pretty limited in terms of fasteners, and many of the fasteners are part specific, so you just look at them and know what works with what -- and typically you order specific replacements and don't pick one out of a bolt drawer at home or at the hardware store. I do measure OD of plumbing parts and then check on line for pipe thread size. https://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Fi...es-threads.pdf We have an awesome fastener store near me, Olander https://www.olander.com/. Very old school, no online ordering. You used to be able to just go to the sales desk and buy what you want but they're closed for in-person sales due to Covid. So you have to submit a quote online and someone calls you back with the pricing and then you send them your credit card information and do a pick-up in the parking lot. A few years ago they got tired of non-commercial customers ordering extremely small quantities so they now have a $5 per line-item requirement. I really like the M5 Cup Washer Head bolts for things like water bottle cages and racks, even though they are not Allen head. |
#27
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#28
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On 4/10/2021 9:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 7:21:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit. Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to specify with your unit conversions. Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have Whitworth stuff. Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my Series IIa. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be the most frequently used chart in my work area. Perhaps you can remind me since I've forgotten, but isn't thread count counted in inches? i.e. A British BB thread is 24 threads per inch but so is an Italian BB. Thinking back the differences were in the threads with Italian threads being triangular and British flattened on the top. Yes, historically Italy was an early mover to industrialization, adopting metric diameters but with British made lathes 55-degree Whitworth form (sinusoid; not pointy) inch threads. Metric threads are formally 'advancement', that is, how far it moves per revolution. I have no idea why that makes any more sense than measuring peak to peak which is the same number. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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On 4/10/2021 12:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:32:27 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth hardware. One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the Range Rover towed when it broke down. Chuckle. My former palatial office was conveniently located near a freeway off ramp. Therefore, my office was regularly visited by friends and customers (the difference is that the customers actually pay me) for emergency automobile service, usually late at night, when they knew I would still be working. The usual problems were flat tires, cooling system problems, and blown fuses. One such visitor arrived with a rather old Range Rover that I expressed an interest in purchasing. It literally fell apart as it entered the parking lot. There was hardware and fluids all over the road. It's common knowledge that a British car that does NOT leak fluids has something wrong with it, but this was ridiculous. I wasted two days patching together the Range Rover so that it could be safely driven to a mechanic. For obvious reasons, I elected not to buy it. As for towing a Land Rover (not a Range Rover), I drove it about 150,000 miles and only needed to be towed once (when I drove it into a ditch). What I found amazing was the number of parts that could fall off the Land Rover, and it would continue to run. I was also not thrilled with having to spend every Saturday under the car fixing something. It seems that early Land Rovers were built in layers. When a problem was discovered, a suitable band-aid was contrived to hide the problem. It was probably considered sacrilege to admit to a design problem, much less to fix it. My favorite example was a metal "heat shield" that was installed between the spark plugs and the firewall. Getting access to the spark plugs was possible, but would have been much easier if the heat shield was removed. So, I removed it. Nothing happened until I reached about 45 mph, when the engine compartment transformed itself into a rather loud giant whistle or flute. Apparently, the "heat shield" was not a heat shield but rather a method of detuning the acoustic resonance of the engine compartment. Despite all the horror stories, I really miss my 1970 Land Rover Series IIa. It turned driving and commuting into an adventure. http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/land_rover1.jpg http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/index.html#land_rover3.jpg Sniff... With 150,000 miles you likely knew this but for others, here's a reminder to use the proper maintenance products: https://www.orarc.org/?p=2348 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#30
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 14:46:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
With 150,000 miles you likely knew this but for others, here's a reminder to use the proper maintenance products: https://www.orarc.org/?p=2348 Also see: https://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm Chuckle. Very clever. However, Lucas Electric solved the problem for me at about 100,000 miles by detonating the EOL (end of life) smoke signal simultaneously in the generator, regulator, dashboard wiring, about 6 fuses, some lamps, and my 144/440MHz radio. Basically, the alternator output went from 12V nominal, to a much higher voltage. Despite the extensive damage, I was able to add enough clip leads and wires to drive the car home before the battery died. While waiting for a wiring harness from Atlantic British, I decided that the Lucas electrical hardware was hopeless. So, I dropped in a Motorola alternator/regulator. After fixing my wiring errors, I was back on the road in about 2 weeks (including shipping delays). Unfortunately, I didn't have the time, money, or sense to also replace the Lucas points, ignition coil, capacitor, RFI filters, etc with an electronic ignition. Those failed just at about 140,000 miles in a rather large puff of black rubbery smoke. I managed to push the car out of the gas station before the attendant was about to spray my car with whatever was in the ominous looking canister he was wielding. The subsequent installation of the electronic ignition was a bit of a kludge, but it worked well and never failed. I also replaced the carburetor with a larger Rochester carb, asbestos drum brakes with something less toxic, and rear seats with something compatible with garbage hauling. The spare tire on the hood was iconic but blocked my view. I moved the tire to the rear door. However, these defficiencies could not be blamed on Lucas. Replacing all the Lucas electrical parts in the vehicle would have been uneconomical and time consuming. So, I continued to repair or replace light switches, receptacles, rotten wiring, ignition switch, etc until I blew the transmission and sold it as-is. I'm not sure of the final mileage, but I think it around 200,000 miles. I never heard from the buyer so I assume everything went well. Judging by our final discussion, he probably parted it out. Sniff... -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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