dumb chain removal question

Hi,

I have aquired 2 old Raleigh bikes, I'd guess around 15 years old. One
is a kids racer, one a first bike.

I'd like to thoroughly clean and lubricate them, but I cannot see how
to remove the chains. I'm reasonably technical, but new to bikes. I
assumed there would be a removable link or rivet to "break" the chain
and enable me to remove it from the triangle of the rear frame.

Am I not looking hard enough or are these chains never intended to be
removed by owners ? No link looks any different than any other. Maybe
they need some more cleaning.

I can make out a made in Germany mark on the chain, but both are
Raleigh models.



Any pointers gratefully received.

Jonathan Ives wrote:
I have aquired 2 old Raleigh bikes, I'd guess around 15 years old. One
is a kids racer, one a first bike.

I'd like to thoroughly clean and lubricate them, but I cannot see how
to remove the chains. I'm reasonably technical, but new to bikes. I
assumed there would be a removable link or rivet to "break" the chain
and enable me to remove it from the triangle of the rear frame.

Most derailleur chains don't have a special link. They don't have the
bulky joining link some single speed or hub-geared bikes have because one
would interfere with gear changing or rub on neighbouring sprockets.

A special tool is required instead - which is used to push pins in and out
(partially) so the chain can be broken and joined. The tools are quite
cheap and reasonably easy to use once you get the knack. Re-joining is
more difficult and there's a danger of creating a stiff link - but there
are ways of curing that (see below).

If got a friendly bike shop nearby, perhaps you could buy a tool and get a
demonstration with it.

Alternatively, a very good tool of its type is available for only two quid
(post free) from:
http://www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp?..._company=TOOLS -
"Chain link remover"

Instructions:
http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQchnRe.shtml

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQtchan.shtml

There are special links available separately for derailleur chain which
make it easy to break and join a chain with no tools at all (SRAM
Powerlink is one good example), but I'm not sure there are any for 5 or
6-speed chains - which I suspect your bikes have. How many sprockets on
the back of each?

.......or are these chains never intended to be
removed by owners

A lot of owners won't ever remove their own chains. They'll either clean
chain while on bike (not so good) or never bother!

~PB

Jonathan Ives wrote:

Hi,

I have aquired 2 old Raleigh bikes, I'd guess around 15 years old. One
is a kids racer, one a first bike.

I'd like to thoroughly clean and lubricate them, but I cannot see how
to remove the chains. I'm reasonably technical, but new to bikes. I
assumed there would be a removable link or rivet to "break" the chain
and enable me to remove it from the triangle of the rear frame.

Am I not looking hard enough or are these chains never intended to be
removed by owners ? No link looks any different than any other. Maybe
they need some more cleaning.


If they're the original chains, which it sounds like, then no - there's no
special link. You need a link removal tool which any decent bike shop
should stock. An example is below:

http://www.parktool.com/tools/CT_5.shtml

Alternatively, since you'll need to buy a tool anyway - a mechanical chain
cleaner may be simpler:

http://www.parktool.com/tools/CG_2.shtml

Regards

Alex

Pete Biggs wrote:

There are special links available separately for derailleur chain which
make it easy to break and join a chain with no tools at all (SRAM
Powerlink is one good example), but I'm not sure there are any for 5 or
6-speed chains - which I suspect your bikes have.

Sorry if I'm completely wrong here, but surely chains used with anything
up to 7 speed are all the same, ie 3/32nd. Apart of course from hub
gears and single speeds which often use i/8th chains. The only other
size of chain is for 9 and 10 speed bikes. SRAM Powerlinks come in 8 and
9 speed sizes, but an 8 speed chain is the same width as a chain found
on a 5,6 or 7 speed bike... Hence you can get a powerlink.

Personally I dont bother with them as I know more than one person who
has had the link spontaneously release when sprinting out of the saddle,
with a fairly unpleasant outcome.

--

-Alex

----------------------------------


http://alexpg.ath.cx:3353/cycling.php
http://www.westerleycycling.org.uk
----------------------------------

"Adrian Boliston" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ives" wrote in message
om...

I'd like to thoroughly clean and lubricate them, but I cannot see how
to remove the chains. I'm reasonably technical, but new to bikes. I
assumed there would be a removable link or rivet to "break" the chain
and enable me to remove it from the triangle of the rear frame....

I think I have seen some chains with a "special" link, but all the chains
I
have ever used have had all the links the same and I have just broken
*any*
link with a "chain tool" which are about a fiver if I remember rightly.

Strange, when I was a kid they had a special link (three speed), and now in
the past few years they have a special link SRAM. But for some reason in
between they went off the idea?

Pete Biggs wrote:

3/32 is the *internal* width and that is the same with all derailleur
chains - right up to 9 (and 10?) speed - but the outside width varies.
It's the outside that is relevant to Powerlinks.

Barnetts Manual (that I've just checked) implies 6-speed chains are the
same as 7-speed: 7.2 to 7.4mm. But there's no mention of 5sp. I can't
find any outside widths at all on Sheldon Brown or Park Tools.

5 speed bikes are still made (kids bikes) and they use a normal 5/6/7
chain (PC48) or equiv. I have a 7 speed bike and I use a PC58 chain
which is nominally 8sp. So I think we should conclude that 5/6/7 all use
the same spacing between sprockets and everything and can use the same
chain, although different manafacturers in different eras make and made
slightly different outside widths. Or something like that


I've never used 7sp on my bikes but I remember noticing that 8sp chains
looked narrower than the old 5 & 6sp chains that I used to use.

I think I know what you mean now I come to think of it

"Pete Biggs" wrote in message ...
Jonathan Ives wrote:


Most derailleur chains don't have a special link. They don't have the
bulky joining link some single speed or hub-geared bikes have because one
would interfere with gear changing or rub on neighbouring sprockets.

When I was a teenager the chain broke on my 24" wheel racer (remember
them?) in the middle of nowhere and a very helpful motorist stopped
and fixed it with one of those old fashioned circlippy type links
which he just happened to have in his toolbox. I was eternally
grateful until I took off down the road to find it fouled the rear
mech at the first turn of the pedals. Imagine riding several miles
having to pedal one revolution, then reverse pedal etc etc to stop the
link reaching the mech! almost as much fun as riding across London
with one pedal! (fortunately had toeclips)

martin wrote:
When I was a teenager the chain broke on my 24" wheel racer (remember
them?) in the middle of nowhere and a very helpful motorist stopped
and fixed it with one of those old fashioned circlippy type links
which he just happened to have in his toolbox. I was eternally
grateful until I took off down the road to find it fouled the rear
mech at the first turn of the pedals. Imagine riding several miles
having to pedal one revolution, then reverse pedal etc etc to stop the
link reaching the mech! almost as much fun as riding across London
with one pedal! (fortunately had toeclips)

Not nice but I've done more awkward things on a bike. Scooting a bike
with no chain, riding a bike while pushing another for miles, riding with
no brakes at all. Mad! In fact, endlessly talking about bikes on a
newsgroup is just a bit mad innit? I think I'm in need of some sleep
....but maybe a Bombay Mix sandwich first.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" wrote in message ...
martin wrote:
When I was a teenager the chain broke on my 24" wheel racer (remember
them?) in the middle of nowhere and a very helpful motorist stopped
and fixed it with one of those old fashioned circlippy type links
which he just happened to have in his toolbox. I was eternally
grateful until I took off down the road to find it fouled the rear
mech at the first turn of the pedals. Imagine riding several miles
having to pedal one revolution, then reverse pedal etc etc to stop the
link reaching the mech! almost as much fun as riding across London
with one pedal! (fortunately had toeclips)

Not nice but I've done more awkward things on a bike. Scooting a bike
with no chain, riding a bike while pushing another for miles, riding with
no brakes at all. Mad! In fact, endlessly talking about bikes on a
newsgroup is just a bit mad innit? I think I'm in need of some sleep
...but maybe a Bombay Mix sandwich first.

How about 7 miles of the grand union canal towpath with no saddle (but
seat pin), 15 miles across hilly Northants with a back flat (hoiked
the tube out of the way and pulled the tyre beads either side of the
rim, stable but very uncomfy) Carrying wife's bike on my back?.Hiring
one of those tag a longs in the New Forest? (when I picked it up the
freewheel was bust and the previous person had not noticed, or its
rider presumably!)

Any more?

~PB

Not nice but I've done more awkward things on a bike. Scooting a bike
with no chain, riding a bike while pushing another for miles, riding
with
no brakes at all. Mad! In fact, endlessly talking about bikes on a
newsgroup is just a bit mad innit? I think I'm in need of some sleep
...but maybe a Bombay Mix sandwich first.

How about 7 miles of the grand union canal towpath with no saddle (but
seat pin), 15 miles across hilly Northants with a back flat (hoiked
the tube out of the way and pulled the tyre beads either side of the
rim, stable but very uncomfy) Carrying wife's bike on my back?.Hiring
one of those tag a longs in the New Forest? (when I picked it up the
freewheel was bust and the previous person had not noticed, or its
rider presumably!)


Hmm still on-topic I see, or at least, just the 'dumb' part.

The Real Lee Casey