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#11
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Spoke tension meter
App wrote:
Wheels I have built with the tensiometer are +/- 5%. The least expensive meter is one you borrow or your ear (search this NG for "spoke tension note tone"). I think Sheldon says proper tone is A flat or some such. Actually, I defer to my friend John Allen on this. See: http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm Peter Chisholm asked: A flat for what spoke gauge?...Spoke gauge makes the pitch different. It does for equal absolute tension. John's article is based on tension/cross sectional area, and aims for a tension of about 1/3 the yield stress of typical stainless spokes. For this the pitch is the same, because the inertia of the mass of the spoke cancels out the difference in absolute tension. When he wrote that article, back in 1987, spoke failure was commonly the limiting factor in how tight the spokes could be. Since then, rims have been made lighter and weaker, so that now days the rim is often the weak link, and lower spoke tensions are sometimes needed to avoid rim failure. Unless you can play the piano or some crappola, tone for tension doesn't work. I don't play the piano or even the crappola, just takes normal hearing. I've found it to work pretty well as a way to compare one spoke or one wheel with another. I own a couple of tensiometers, but I still plink the spokes to check for evenness of tension. I do tend to use the tensiometer to judge when the wheel is up to tension, but if I didn't have a tensiometer, I don't believe I would miss it all that much. I was building wheels successfully for decades before tensiometers became available. Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown +--------------------------------------------------+ | For every complex problem, there is a solution | | that is simple, neat, and wrong. | | --H. L. Mencken | +--------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com |
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#12
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Spoke tension meter
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote: [sni--] [Drat this dull key that won't cut text!] [sni--] [Press harder!] [sni--] [Oops--that's the Insert key, not the Del key . . .] [SNIP!] Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown Dear Sheldon, Well . . . Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel |
#13
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Spoke tension meter
Ken wrote:
I was curious about these things, I know that spoke tension is important to keep your wheels true under normal riding condtions. I have seen the Park tm-1 I think is the model number and this seems like it is the most economical one on the market. Is this something that the home diy'er should have in his garage? I have a brand new wheel on the back (actually has about 200 miles on it) and that the spoke tension should be checked after a certain number of break in miles ( I have read 100 miles is the number) But to shell out a minimum of $50 for a tool that may or may not be used much is a bit of a waste. Should spoke tension be checked with a meter on a regular basis? It *is* a good idea to use one when building a wheel, but for the small number of wheels built by most amateurs it's a difficult expense to justify. Wheels are surprisingly tolerant to a poor build, or you'd see a lot more collapsed ones out on the road (I've never seen a total wheel failure, and only one broken spoke - on a machine built wheel). Assuming the nipples were well-lubricated before building, when you find the spokes are beginning to wind-up significantly, creaking and "snapping" back into position, the wheel is probably tight enough. Do Jobst's stress relieving thing with all your might, and if it stays true you'll know you haven't overtensioned it either. All your wheels will end up at a slightly different tension, but there's a pretty big window of acceptability there. They'll probably still be 10 times as good as the ones my LBS does ;-) |
#14
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Spoke tension meter
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:03:10 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote: [snip] Wheels are surprisingly tolerant to a poor build, or you'd see a lot more collapsed ones out on the road (I've never seen a total wheel failure, and only one broken spoke - on a machine built wheel). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [snip] Dear Zog, Interesting observation--not at all what the casual reader of this newsgroup would expect. Thanks, Carl Fogel |
#15
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Spoke tension meter
App wrote:
The least expensive meter is one you borrow or your ear (search this NG for "spoke tension note tone"). I think Sheldon says proper tone is A flat or some such. Which A flat? --Blair "Plink plink plink..." |
#16
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Spoke tension meter
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
A flat for what spoke gauge?...Spoke gauge makes the pitch different. Unless you can play the piano or some crappola, tone for tension doesn't work. Gauge, material density, shape, length, all perturb the tone for the same tension. If Sheldon said that, he's high, having us on, or talking about the wheels on his favorite tourer. --Blair "Ha ha funny." |
#17
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Spoke tension meter
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown wrote: [sni--] [Drat this dull key that won't cut text!] [sni--] [Press harder!] [sni--] [Oops--that's the Insert key, not the Del key . . .] [SNIP!] Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown Dear Sheldon, Well . . . Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel I'd just like to point out that a good workman blames his tools when the tools are ****ed up, or else he's not much of a workman. --Blair "Damnable sense." |
#18
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Spoke tension meter
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:41:25 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown wrote: [SNIP!] Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown Dear Sheldon, Well . . . Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel I'd just like to point out that a good workman blames his tools when the tools are ****ed up, or else he's not much of a workman. A good workman knows his tools are ****ed up before starting a project, and doesn't try to use them to do things they can't do. Jasper |
#19
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Spoke tension meter
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#20
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Spoke tension meter
Sheldon Brown wrote: I don't play the piano or even the crappola, just takes normal hearing. I've found it to work pretty well as a way to compare one spoke or one wheel with another. I own a couple of tensiometers, but I still plink the spokes to check for evenness of tension. I do tend to use the tensiometer to judge when the wheel is up to tension, but if I didn't have a tensiometer, I don't believe I would miss it all that much. I was building wheels successfully for decades before tensiometers became available. Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown Gee, so do I. Tone to compare tension is something all of us old fart wheelbuilders use. But I also use a DT dial tensionometer to check actual tension to see if I am where I want to be. I think I could probably tell also but when building 5-6 wheels in one day, hands getting tired, different rims, the tensionometer is a good thing. But the concept of plucking a spoke and then truing a wheel cuz it's a few notes too low, that just makes me giggle, but I don't play anything but the truing stand. |
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