Spoke tension meter

App wrote:

Wheels I have built with the tensiometer are +/- 5%.

The least expensive meter is one you borrow or your ear (search this NG
for "spoke tension note tone").

I think Sheldon says proper tone is A flat or some such.

Actually, I defer to my friend John Allen on this.

See: http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm

Peter Chisholm asked:

A flat for what spoke gauge?...Spoke gauge makes the pitch different.

It does for equal absolute tension. John's article is based on
tension/cross sectional area, and aims for a tension of about 1/3 the
yield stress of typical stainless spokes. For this the pitch is the
same, because the inertia of the mass of the spoke cancels out the
difference in absolute tension.

When he wrote that article, back in 1987, spoke failure was commonly the
limiting factor in how tight the spokes could be. Since then, rims have
been made lighter and weaker, so that now days the rim is often the weak
link, and lower spoke tensions are sometimes needed to avoid rim failure.

Unless you can play the piano or some crappola, tone for tension
doesn't work.

I don't play the piano or even the crappola, just takes normal hearing.

I've found it to work pretty well as a way to compare one spoke or one
wheel with another.

I own a couple of tensiometers, but I still plink the spokes to check
for evenness of tension. I do tend to use the tensiometer to judge when
the wheel is up to tension, but if I didn't have a tensiometer, I don't
believe I would miss it all that much. I was building wheels
successfully for decades before tensiometers became available.

Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| For every complex problem, there is a solution |
| that is simple, neat, and wrong. |
| --H. L. Mencken |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

[sni--]

[Drat this dull key that won't cut text!]

[sni--]

[Press harder!]

[sni--]

[Oops--that's the Insert key, not the Del key . . .]

[SNIP!]

Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown

Dear Sheldon,

Well . . .

Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel

Ken wrote:
I was curious about these things, I know that spoke tension is important to
keep your wheels true under normal riding condtions. I have seen the Park
tm-1 I think is the model number and this seems like it is the most
economical one on the market. Is this something that the home diy'er should
have in his garage? I have a brand new wheel on the back (actually has about
200 miles on it) and that the spoke tension should be checked after a
certain number of break in miles ( I have read 100 miles is the number) But
to shell out a minimum of $50 for a tool that may or may not be used much is
a bit of a waste. Should spoke tension be checked with a meter on a regular
basis?

It *is* a good idea to use one when building a wheel, but for the small
number of wheels built by most amateurs it's a difficult expense to justify.

Wheels are surprisingly tolerant to a poor build, or you'd see a lot
more collapsed ones out on the road (I've never seen a total wheel
failure, and only one broken spoke - on a machine built wheel).

Assuming the nipples were well-lubricated before building, when you find
the spokes are beginning to wind-up significantly, creaking and
"snapping" back into position, the wheel is probably tight enough. Do
Jobst's stress relieving thing with all your might, and if it stays true
you'll know you haven't overtensioned it either.

All your wheels will end up at a slightly different tension, but there's
a pretty big window of acceptability there. They'll probably still be
10 times as good as the ones my LBS does ;-)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:03:10 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

[snip]

Wheels are surprisingly tolerant to a poor build, or you'd see a lot
more collapsed ones out on the road (I've never seen a total wheel
failure, and only one broken spoke - on a machine built wheel).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[snip]

Dear Zog,

Interesting observation--not at all what the casual reader
of this newsgroup would expect.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

App wrote:
The least expensive meter is one you borrow or your ear (search this NG
for "spoke tension note tone").

I think Sheldon says proper tone is A flat or some such.

Which A flat?

--Blair
"Plink plink plink..."

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
A flat for what spoke gauge?...Spoke gauge makes the pitch different.
Unless you can play the piano or some crappola, tone for tension
doesn't work.

Gauge, material density, shape, length, all perturb the tone
for the same tension.

If Sheldon said that, he's high, having us on, or talking about
the wheels on his favorite tourer.

--Blair
"Ha ha funny."

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

[sni--]

[Drat this dull key that won't cut text!]

[sni--]

[Press harder!]

[sni--]

[Oops--that's the Insert key, not the Del key . . .]

[SNIP!]

Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown

Dear Sheldon,

Well . . .

Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel

I'd just like to point out that a good workman blames his
tools when the tools are ****ed up, or else he's not much
of a workman.

--Blair
"Damnable sense."

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:41:25 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:31:55 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

[SNIP!]

Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown

Dear Sheldon,

Well . . .

Carl "A Workman Is Only As Good As His Tools" Fogel

I'd just like to point out that a good workman blames his
tools when the tools are ****ed up, or else he's not much
of a workman.

A good workman knows his tools are ****ed up before starting a project,
and doesn't try to use them to do things they can't do.

Jasper

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:03:23 -0600, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:03:10 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

[snip]

Wheels are surprisingly tolerant to a poor build, or you'd see a lot
more collapsed ones out on the road (I've never seen a total wheel
failure, and only one broken spoke - on a machine built wheel).

Interesting observation--not at all what the casual reader
of this newsgroup would expect.

Load on the wheels matters a lot. I weigh close to two regular riders, and
I break spokes on my (machine-built, three-speed hub, steel rim) wheels on
my commuter iron steed (which also has to hop the occasional low curb, of
course) on a regular basis. The very first wheel I ever built, for my
father who's not that heavy by a long stretch, broke spokes extremely
often due to overtension.

Jasper

Sheldon Brown wrote:


I don't play the piano or even the crappola, just takes normal hearing.

I've found it to work pretty well as a way to compare one spoke or one
wheel with another.

I own a couple of tensiometers, but I still plink the spokes to check
for evenness of tension. I do tend to use the tensiometer to judge when
the wheel is up to tension, but if I didn't have a tensiometer, I don't
believe I would miss it all that much. I was building wheels
successfully for decades before tensiometers became available.

Sheldon "A Poor Workman Blames His Tools" Brown

Gee, so do I. Tone to compare tension is something all of us old fart
wheelbuilders use. But I also use a DT dial tensionometer to check
actual tension to see if I am where I want to be. I think I could
probably tell also but when building 5-6 wheels in one day, hands
getting tired, different rims, the tensionometer is a good thing.

But the concept of plucking a spoke and then truing a wheel cuz it's a
few notes too low, that just makes me giggle, but I don't play anything
but the truing stand.