It's not road rage but a mental disorder...

http://tinyurl.com/kuduy

So when someone has a massive 4WD dummy spit (ie a "clinically
significant anger attack") at you on your bike, they can truly plead
mentally disturbed.

Hmm, might start lobbing tin cans at passing cars - my seratonin levels
made me do it Your Honour


--
warrwych

warrwych Wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kuduy

So when someone has a massive 4WD dummy spit (ie a "clinically
significant anger attack") at you on your bike, they can truly plead
mentally disturbed.

Hmm, might start lobbing tin cans at passing cars - my seratonin levels
made me do it Your Honour

Further over-medicalisation of a so called 'symptom'. Let's be honest
about this, road rage is *really* poor impulse control by another
moniker.


--
cfsmtb

warrwych wrote:
cfsmtb Wrote:
Further over-medicalisation of a so called 'symptom'. Let's be honest
about this, road rage is *really* poor impulse control by another
moniker.

Absolutely. To blame biochemicals simply abrogates personal
responsibility (the devil made me do it, I had no control) and turns
the attacker into victim.

I don't agree. It looks like you're confusing understanding with
condoning.

It's one thing to understand why things happen, and another altogether
to deal with them in an apropriate way.

Where does this leave the recipient of the
rage? Fits in neatly with sorry, I didn't see you, you need more
lights, get out of the fecking way, I am late for a meeting, I pay road
taxes and it's my road etc etc mentalities.

No, it doesn't. Not at all. It fits in with "this is why it happened",
not "this is how the people involved will be dealt with" or (and even
more importantly!) "we can now come up with some strategies for
reducing the likelyhood of it happening again". If you don't
understand why something happens, you have almost no chance of changing
it.

"warrwych" wrote in message
...

http://tinyurl.com/kuduy

So when someone has a massive 4WD dummy spit (ie a "clinically
significant anger attack") at you on your bike, they can truly plead
mentally disturbed.

Hmm, might start lobbing tin cans at passing cars - my seratonin levels
made me do it Your Honour


--
warrwych

The motor car is a wonderful thing. It allows tantrums, which should be over
at the age of 5, to continue into supposed adulthood, as the driver toots
his horn, revs his engine and does wheelies, his anonymity protected in his
car. I often get these little "bursts" of rage as I commute and drivers come
up from behind.

Henry.

Bleve Wrote:
warrwych wrote:
cfsmtb Wrote:
Further over-medicalisation of a so called 'symptom'. Let's be
honest
about this, road rage is *really* poor impulse control by another
moniker.

Absolutely. To blame biochemicals simply abrogates personal
responsibility (the devil made me do it, I had no control) and turns
the attacker into victim.

I don't agree. It looks like you're confusing understanding with
condoning.

It's one thing to understand why things happen, and another altogether
to deal with them in an apropriate way.

Where does this leave the recipient of the
rage? Fits in neatly with sorry, I didn't see you, you need more
lights, get out of the fecking way, I am late for a meeting, I pay
road
taxes and it's my road etc etc mentalities.

No, it doesn't. Not at all. It fits in with "this is why it
happened",
not "this is how the people involved will be dealt with" or (and even
more importantly!) "we can now come up with some strategies for
reducing the likelyhood of it happening again". If you don't
understand why something happens, you have almost no chance of
changing
it.


I get where your coming from Bleve, but it also provides an easy cop
out for people. Also, diagnosis usually comes after the fact. I get
grumpy in the mornings from mixed up biochemicals/hormones from lack of
sleep & hard training, but that doesn't mean I actually express the
instant rage I feel when someone else has taken the last of the milk
for breakfast. Look at the incidence of ADD & ADHD. Has diagnosis
actually helped (m)any of those people in a real world way? Mostly not;
they are now have a convenient label and can take a tablet that may or
may not work, the side effects of which may be worse. And I think the
article is referring more to "random acts of rage" rather than chronic
rage attacks, which are more identifiable as problematic.


--
warrwych

hemyd wrote:

The motor car is a wonderful thing. It allows tantrums, which should be over
at the age of 5, to continue into supposed adulthood, as the driver toots
his horn, revs his engine and does wheelies, his anonymity protected in his
car. I often get these little "bursts" of rage as I commute and drivers come
up from behind.

Do you see a lot of cars doing wheelies?

..

Bleve Wrote:
hemyd wrote:

The motor car is a wonderful thing. It allows tantrums, which should
be over
at the age of 5, to continue into supposed adulthood, as the driver
toots
his horn, revs his engine and does wheelies, his anonymity protected
in his
car. I often get these little "bursts" of rage as I commute and
drivers come
up from behind.

Do you see a lot of cars doing wheelies?

..

come to the Latrobe Valley maaaaaaayyyaaaate......



--
warrwych

warrwych wrote:
Look at the incidence of ADD & ADHD. Has diagnosis
actually helped (m)any of those people in a real world way? Mostly not;

An ex of mine was a kindergarden teacher, and yes, I'd say that from
her experience, diagnosis and treatement of ADHD & ADD was useful and
in many cases made a real difference to the kids, and how they affected
the other kids.

they are now have a convenient label and can take a tablet that may or
may not work, the side effects of which may be worse. And I think the
article is referring more to "random acts of rage" rather than chronic
rage attacks, which are more identifiable as problematic.

Sure, but again, having an awareness that there are people who have
frequent random rage attacks may help in the way we as a society can
deal with them. Maybe medication, maybe incarceration .. I dunno...
but at least we'd have *some* clue as to what was going on.

We can't throw all the road rage drivers in gaol, but if it's possible
to identify them and keep track of them, and maybe we find that there
isn't actually all that many of them (I recall vaguely reading stats on
property offences, a very small number of people commit the vast
majority of housebreakins, for example and I think this is the case for
a lot of classes of offence) and they get flagged somehow as frequent
offenders ... then perhaps something can be done about them. I know a
kid (about 13 now) who has a low rage threshold issue, he's been kicked
out of at least 3 schools that I know about etc. If he gets a driver's
licence (and he will ...) he'll be one of the most dangerous drivers
around. This stuff could help him (and us! we have to share a planet
with these dangerous people). It's not an excuse, it's an opportunity
to address the fundamental problem.

The alternative is to just say "Joe Blogs went ape, throw him in gaol
for x months", which isn't a sustainable approach, and clearly, doesn't
work for the loonies.

Bleve Wrote:
warrwych wrote:
Look at the incidence of ADD & ADHD. Has diagnosis
actually helped (m)any of those people in a real world way? Mostly
not;

An ex of mine was a kindergarden teacher, and yes, I'd say that from
her experience, diagnosis and treatement of ADHD & ADD was useful and
in many cases made a real difference to the kids, and how they
affected
the other kids.

they are now have a convenient label and can take a tablet that may
or
may not work, the side effects of which may be worse. And I think
the
article is referring more to "random acts of rage" rather than
chronic
rage attacks, which are more identifiable as problematic.

Sure, but again, having an awareness that there are people who have
frequent random rage attacks may help in the way we as a society can
deal with them. Maybe medication, maybe incarceration .. I dunno...
but at least we'd have *some* clue as to what was going on.

We can't throw all the road rage drivers in gaol, but if it's possible
to identify them and keep track of them, and maybe we find that there
isn't actually all that many of them (I recall vaguely reading stats
on
property offences, a very small number of people commit the vast
majority of housebreakins, for example and I think this is the case
for
a lot of classes of offence) and they get flagged somehow as frequent
offenders ... then perhaps something can be done about them. I know a
kid (about 13 now) who has a low rage threshold issue, he's been
kicked
out of at least 3 schools that I know about etc. If he gets a
driver's
licence (and he will ...) he'll be one of the most dangerous drivers
around. This stuff could help him (and us! we have to share a planet
with these dangerous people). It's not an excuse, it's an opportunity
to address the fundamental problem.

The alternative is to just say "Joe Blogs went ape, throw him in gaol
for x months", which isn't a sustainable approach, and clearly,
doesn't
work for the loonies.


Agree with all of the above. But how do you determine what is piggery
and violent arrogance and what is geniune psychological disorder? For
that matter, is not any extreme emotional outburst disordered?

Questions in resolving the issue include: is seratonin permanently
hindered and the condition CAN be diagnosed in childhood? Or is the
chemical imbalance a consequence of some stimuli or lack there of, and
thereof cannot be so readily diagnosed in advanced?

Medicalising rage attacks in this way is fraught with problems and
dangers, least of which is the capacity to hide behind the label of
rage disorder (or whatever you want to call it). Low seratonin levels
do a LOT of things to individuals, so if someone has low levels,
because of the RISK of rage attacks (although this might not be an
outcome) do you then prohibit them from operating euqipment that might
be used in a rage attack?

As sinus notes, the article does raise the issue of road rage not being
"normal" behaviour, which must be a good thing.


--
warrwych

Society is to blame.


--
cfsmtb