recommend a pedal for a clipless noob

In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I
don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my
toes feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

The only walkable cleat shoes are SPD type.

Strongest recommendation. When first you set up
the pedals set the retention force to the minimum.
This will make it easier to learn how to clip out,
and offer a bit of a safety margin when you
forget to clip out. When first you ride with them
practice coasting along and removing a foot from
the pedal so you quickly learn to do it without
thinking. As you approach a traffic stop unclip
while still rolling. You are going to love the
new system.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
Art Harris wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) *


I would recomment dual-sided SPD pedals such as the PD-M520. It has
enough float

The PD-M520 is good. I run its more expensive sibling PD-M540,
for no particular reason.
Drooling for the XTR PD-M970.

First pedal to earn XTR status

Our lightest MTB SPD pedal ever

Flourine [sic] coated binding claws allow easy entry and release

I started out with Look pedals in the early '90s when they were the
only think around, and used them untill a few years ago. If you do any
amount of walking, an SPD pedal with a recessed cleat is a better
choice. The Look pedals make you walk like a duck, and the plastic
cleats wear quickly and tend to slip when you put a foot down.

As for a shoe, I'd recommend the Shimano RT-51 because it has a good
stiff sole which will eliminate "hot spots" due to cleat pressure on
your foot.

See:
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...51.-type-.html

I am shopping around for some RT-51's,
because I have waffle stompers
and want to go with the smooth soles.

--
Michael Press

On May 10, 6:10 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Art Harris wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

I haven't seen anything like the shoes you
recommend above in any of the local stores, but that seems like it would
meet my needs (walkable, but not a MTB shoe. I guess the keyword I
should be using would be "touring?")

Yes, I can't understand why Shimano doesn't promote their SPD Touring
shoes more. I use the now discontinued T092's. Recently Nashbar was
selling the similar RT-50's (which seems to have been replaced by the
RT-51). These shoes aren't as clunky as MTB shoes, and are great for
road riding and walking. Good luck.

Art Harris

hmm. don't seem to be much of anywhere to buy them based on a quick
google - most of the hits are European. There also appears to be a more
expensive RT-80, which I guess is an option as well. Do Shimano shoe
sizes tend to be consistent across different product lines? Looks like
I'd have to be fitted for a MTB or road shoe and then order the touring
shoes online.

The only big diff between the touring shoes and the mtb shoes are some
notches cut out of the nominal soles. Just get something and ride.
More important is that you got enough toe wiggle room. I got narrow
feet and can rock about any shoe as long as the heel cup is decent.
I'm riding cheeeep Exustar mtb shoes I picked up last fall at Nash for
peanuts. Flexier than my old road boards for sure, but walkable. Rode
them sixty miles today without thinking about my feet one second.
Start cheap is my theory, then see if your feet call for support or
help. They might not. If you ride hard and fast, they might scream for
some nicer kit, personally, mine are tough enough to not really care
enough as long as they're restrained and not scrunched up too much.
Yeah, I've ridden much finer kit--but this is cycling, not running, so
as long as it's pretty decent, it's good enough.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try
first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I
don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my
toes feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

Unless you are a racer or a conformist roadie (understood not to be the
case for Nate), DO NOT get shoes that can not be walked in. The
advantages of systems such as Look cleats are not important for anyone
but hard core road racers, while the disadvantages of non-walkable shoes
are obvious.

Will you ever want to stop at a store for a drink? Stop by a concession
stand for something to eat? Walk the bike for a short distance in a
pedestrian area? Park your bike and walk a short distance to a scenic
outlook? All activities such as these are made annoyingly difficult with
large protruding cleats.

An ATB shoe with a stiff sole (e.g. SiDi Dominator) will offer almost
all the performance of roadie shoes and cleats, but can still be walked
in without imitating a duck.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Michael Press wrote:

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh
rat trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either
good pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I
should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS
closest to my house tells me I really want Looks for more float
(makes sense.) I don't think he's trying to make a sale because
he's got a bucket full of used pedals of both types, and he doesn't
sell shoes at all. I was hoping to be able to walk in whatever
shoes I ended up getting but that seems to not be an option for
either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some
old soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff
enough, my toes feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in
spending more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

The only walkable cleat shoes are SPD type.

Strongest recommendation. When first you set up the pedals set the
retention force to the minimum. This will make it easier to learn
how to clip out, and offer a bit of a safety margin when you forget
to clip out. When first you ride with them practice coasting along
and removing a foot from the pedal so you quickly learn to do it
without thinking. As you approach a traffic stop unclip while still
rolling. You are going to love the new system.

Shimano has SPD shoes designed for triathletes that have smooth rubber
soles and are so walkable that I wore them to and at work for many
years as well as on long tours where walking indoors on hotel/motel
floors is common. I use the old 737 pedals and am glad that my cleats
give no float with them, being neither pigeon-toed nor duck-footed.

Jobst Brandt

aka Jobst Brandt wrote:

Shimano has SPD shoes designed for triathletes that have smooth rubber
soles and are so walkable that I wore them to and at work for many
years as well as on long tours where walking indoors on hotel/motel
floors is common. I use the old 737 pedals and am glad that my cleats
give no float with them, being neither pigeon-toed nor duck-footed.

The Shimano SH-51 "single release" SPD cleat has a specified 4° of
float, which is of course much less than say a Speedplay Frog®. As for
being pigeon-toed or duck-footed, most shoes allow for considerable
variation in the direction the SPD cleat is mounted, and some trial and
error may be required in getting this right with new shoes (when
replacing worn cleats, the indentation left by the serrations on the top
of the cleat makes alignment of the new cleat easy).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Jobst Brandt wrote:


Shimano has SPD shoes designed for triathletes that have smooth rubber
soles and are so walkable that I wore them to and at work for many
years as well as on long tours where walking indoors on hotel/motel
floors is common. I use the old 737 pedals and am glad that my cleats
give no float with them, being neither pigeon-toed nor duck-footed.

The Shimano SH-51 "single release" SPD cleat has a specified 4° of
float, which is of course much less than say a Speedplay Frog®. As for
being pigeon-toed or duck-footed, most shoes allow for considerable
variation in the direction the SPD cleat is mounted, and some trial and
error may be required in getting this right with new shoes (when
replacing worn cleats, the indentation left by the serrations on the top
of the cleat makes alignment of the new cleat easy).


F/U: based on the comments in this thread and the facts that REI had a
sale on through today and Dubya apparently got around to sending me my
"stimulus" money yesterday, I went down there and bought myself a set of
the second cheapest SPD pedals (the cheapest ones that have replaceable
bearings.) After looking at Shimano's web site and examples of the
various pedals in the store, it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of
difference between the M540s (the ones I bought) and the more expensive
ones other than a very slight weight difference and a big increase in
price - am I about right here? I tried on some shoes and immediately
nixed the idea of using the Shimano "touring" shoes because I found that
the two Shimano shoes that I did try on were both too narrow for my
duck-like toes and had heel cups that were too big. I did get some
cheap Pearl Izumi MTB shoes that fit me perfectly, they were on sale for
$60 so I figured WTF.

Just got back from trying them out - I can already feel that I'm going
to be faster and more efficient, but either I think my legs are set in
their old ways; I spent about 15 minutes on the porch practicing
clipping in and out while balancing against a picnic table, then just
started riding back and forth through the neighborhood, stopping and
unclipping every couple houses. Man I must have been a sight! I've
found that I apparently have been in the habit of leaving my right foot
on the pedals when I come to a stop and leaning the bike slightly to the
left as I step off. Probably because I'm right handed and therefore
it's easier to start/push myself into the saddle with my right foot.
Well based on some comments here and on bikeforums regarding crashes in
traffic I figured it would be a good idea to start practicing it the
other way as well, boy what a CF. I hope nobody saw me! I never did
actually dump it but came darn close a couple times. I'd clip out, put
my leg down, and apparently out of habit I'd push the bike over to my
left - woops! Got a nice claw mark in the shape of a 53 tooth chainring
on the back of my right leg (matches the mark from the rat traps on my
left leg that started this whole line of experimentation.) Now it's
pouring down rain - started after only a couple circuits of the
neighborhood - but I will have to do this a couple more times before
I'll feel comfortable going out on the roads for real...

anyway, thanks to all for the advice and I hope none of you live on my
street otherwise you're probably laughing your butts off right now...
yes, I know everyone went clipless 10 years ago, what can I say...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On May 11, 2:18*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Just got back from trying them out - I can already feel that I'm going
to be faster and more efficient, but either I think my legs are set in
their old ways; I spent about 15 minutes on the porch practicing
clipping in and out while balancing against a picnic table, then just
started riding back and forth through the neighborhood, stopping and
unclipping every couple houses. *Man I must have been a sight!

I can do a lot better than that-- I got some dirt, apparently, into my
SPD-SL cleat, the right one that I do my in/out and standing with. Got
careless with planning a landing, and dumped it at a busy intersection
when my foot didn't pop out as expected.

Ha ha, I do that once or twice a year, where I'm a little too sure of
myself and don't get the foot unclipped before my "progress to
landing" takes me past the point of no return, where it's too late to
get the foot out and I have to prepare to ditch, gear up g. I've had
enough practice at this so I can land pretty softly and kinda roll on
knee and hip with little-no body or bike damage. I've also learned
*not* to make eye contact with observers (and there are always
observers!), much less embarrassment that way!

Actually, I look at it like this: you're a grown-up, out there in
public riding a bicycle and enjoying it. I mean, to a lot of "the
neighbors", you're obviously beyond help in the first place, right?
================
Yup, you have to "pattern" your response so it's automatic, just as
you're doing. Just a little training, your survival instinct will
operate automatically afterwards.

Excuse me as I remind you to keep the cleat screws tight, something
else that gets away from us experts every once in a while.

Got them, like them? Shoes fit/are comfy? Good deal! --D-y

On Sat, 10 May 2008 17:45:33 -0700, Michael Press
wrote:

[---]

As you approach a traffic stop unclip
while still rolling.

That's the most important bit to grasp - *always* unclip in advance of
anything which might possibly require you to come to a sudden stop -
traffic lights, road junction, granny threatening to suddenly step of
the pavement in front of you etc.

Nate Nagel wrote:

Shimano has SPD shoes designed for triathletes that have smooth
rubber soles and are so walkable that I wore them to and at work
for many years as well as on long tours where walking indoors on
hotel/motel floors is common. I use the old 737 pedals and am
glad that my cleats give no float with them, being neither
pigeon-toed nor duck-footed.

The Shimano SH-51 "single release" SPD cleat has a specified 4° of
float, which is of course much less than say a Speedplay Frog®. As
for being pigeon-toed or duck-footed, most shoes allow for
considerable variation in the direction the SPD cleat is mounted,
and some trial and error may be required in getting this right with
new shoes (when replacing worn cleats, the indentation left by the
serrations on the top of the cleat makes alignment of the new cleat
easy).

F/U: based on the comments in this thread and the facts that REI had
a sale on through today and Dubya apparently got around to sending
me my "stimulus" money yesterday, I went down there and bought
myself a set of the second cheapest SPD pedals (the cheapest ones
that have replaceable bearings.) After looking at Shimano's web
site and examples of the various pedals in the store, it doesn't
look like there's a whole lot of difference between the M540s (the
ones I bought) and the more expensive ones other than a very slight
weight difference and a big increase in price - am I about right
here? I tried on some shoes and immediately nixed the idea of using
the Shimano "touring" shoes because I found that the two Shimano
shoes that I did try on were both too narrow for my duck-like toes
and had heel cups that were too big. I did get some cheap Pearl
Izumi MTB shoes that fit me perfectly, they were on sale for $60 so
I figured WTF.

When you say MTB shoes, I visualize shoes with knobby tires that track
dirt into any place you walk after crossing a wet surface, especially
a soft one. they aren't called waffle-stompers for nothing. That's
why I suggested the Shimano smooth rubber soled shoes.

http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3

Just got back from trying them out - I can already feel that I'm
going to be faster and more efficient, but either I think my legs
are set in their old ways; I spent about 15 minutes on the porch
practicing clipping in and out while balancing against a picnic
table, then just started riding back and forth through the
neighborhood, stopping and unclipping every couple houses. Man I
must have been a sight! I've found that I apparently have been in
the habit of leaving my right foot on the pedals when I come to a
stop and leaning the bike slightly to the left as I step off.
Probably because I'm right handed and therefore it's easier to
start/push myself into the saddle with my right foot.

The big difference is that release is by twisting to either side, but
more by default, just pushing the heel of the landing foot toward the
ground on the side chosen. Years ago, when clipless/strapless pedals
first took over, I recall often seeing experienced riders lying on the
ground where they had stopped. That no longer occurs because they
learned to not attempt pulling out rearward, but to twist the foot to
either side to disengage.

Well based on some comments here and on bike forums regarding
crashes in traffic I figured it would be a good idea to start
practicing it the other way as well, boy what a CF. I hope nobody
saw me! I never did actually dump it but came darn close a couple
times. I'd clip out, put my leg down, and apparently out of habit
I'd push the bike over to my left - whoops! Got a nice claw mark in
the shape of a 53 tooth chainring on the back of my right leg
(matches the mark from the rat traps on my left leg that started
this whole line of experimentation.) Now it's pouring down rain -
started after only a couple circuits of the neighborhood - but I
will have to do this a couple more times before I'll feel
comfortable going out on the roads for real...

That's not the problem. When falling or getting hit by another bikie
or car, feet are usually out of the pedals before the rider hits the
ground automatically. That is not something I consider worth
practicing.

anyway, thanks to all for the advice and I hope none of you live on
my street otherwise you're probably laughing your butts off right
now... yes, I know everyone went clipless 10 years ago, what can I
say...

Don't worry about appearances. People who laugh at you aren't worth
knowing anyway.

Jobst Brandt