Bus bike rack too short, how to strap in a bike quickly?

On 2018-08-27 12:05, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/27/2018 1:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 11:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


[...]

... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my
roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic
one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know,
you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it
into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a
home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly
fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester.
That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few,
what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see
plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the
buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses
have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces)
are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)

but it's much more likely because you botched the
mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't
broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal
with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society
has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to
fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.


Have you not noticed the vastly growing market share of
27-1/2" and 29" mountain bikes? Seriously? Have you never
thought about the fact that in some areas of the country the
MTB is the main kind of bicycle instead of a road bike?

Wow.


And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic
buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of
broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of
ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic
buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.


Baloney. Learn to read more carefully.


Keep digging, Joerg.


No, you just seem to have a tough time understanding. When I
find broken straps with plastic buckles I either kick them
to the side of the bike lane/shoulder or I pick them up to
discard them into the next trash bin. Because I don't want
other riders to hit them or animals to swallow that stuff.

It that so difficult to understand?


Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate white people's
various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus system doing for brown
cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG


It isn't about tax dollars. This is about increasing ridership and
benefiting the environment. Currently most munis are deep in the red.
They could be less deep in the red if they'd promote bus usage by cyclists.

Example: Placerville is higher than El Dorado Hills or Cameron Park.
Most riders find it "too stressful" to ride uphill for all those miles
and then later back down. What they do now is park one truck in the
valley and pile into another truck with the bikes going up into the
hills. Later the truck in the valley must be driven all the way up into
the hills to retrieve the other truck. An environmental disaster plus
missed income for the muni.

They nearly all have 27-1/2" bikes these days so won't fit on the bus.
Nobody expects a cargo bike or a bike trailer to go on a bus rack but
people do expect contemporary bikes to fit.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 3:37:07 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 12:05, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/27/2018 1:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 11:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


[...]

... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my
roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic
one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know,
you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it
into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a
home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly
fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester.
That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few,
what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see
plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the
buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses
have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces)
are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)

but it's much more likely because you botched the
mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't
broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal
with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society
has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to
fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.


Have you not noticed the vastly growing market share of
27-1/2" and 29" mountain bikes? Seriously? Have you never
thought about the fact that in some areas of the country the
MTB is the main kind of bicycle instead of a road bike?

Wow.


And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic
buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of
broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of
ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic
buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.


Baloney. Learn to read more carefully.


Keep digging, Joerg.


No, you just seem to have a tough time understanding. When I
find broken straps with plastic buckles I either kick them
to the side of the bike lane/shoulder or I pick them up to
discard them into the next trash bin. Because I don't want
other riders to hit them or animals to swallow that stuff.

It that so difficult to understand?


Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate white people's
various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus system doing for brown
cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG


It isn't about tax dollars. This is about increasing ridership and
benefiting the environment. Currently most munis are deep in the red.
They could be less deep in the red if they'd promote bus usage by cyclists.

Example: Placerville is higher than El Dorado Hills or Cameron Park.
Most riders find it "too stressful" to ride uphill for all those miles
and then later back down. What they do now is park one truck in the
valley and pile into another truck with the bikes going up into the
hills. Later the truck in the valley must be driven all the way up into
the hills to retrieve the other truck. An environmental disaster plus
missed income for the muni.

They nearly all have 27-1/2" bikes these days so won't fit on the bus.
Nobody expects a cargo bike or a bike trailer to go on a bus rack but
people do expect contemporary bikes to fit.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Bus racks were designed and implemented BEFORE those wheel sizes became very popular. If the rack were being designed to day then those wheel sizes would most likely be accommodated.

One thing I notice with a lot with bicycles on bus bike racks is that the front wheel hook is often placed in front of the highest point of the bicycle wheel. Thus if the hook failed in transit it could slip off the wheel. i always place the hook behind the highest point of the wheel = bewteen the highest point of the wheel and the bicycle head tube.

Cheers

On 2018-08-27 13:49, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 3:37:07 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 12:05, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/27/2018 1:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 11:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

[...]

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic
buckle straps on the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of
broken plastic buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must
ship all of ours to your area and distribute them on your
roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic
buckles that have snapped? Remember, that was your claim.


Baloney. Learn to read more carefully.


Keep digging, Joerg.


No, you just seem to have a tough time understanding. When I
find broken straps with plastic buckles I either kick them to
the side of the bike lane/shoulder or I pick them up to discard
them into the next trash bin. Because I don't want other riders
to hit them or animals to swallow that stuff.

It that so difficult to understand?


Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate white
people's various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus system
doing for brown cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG


It isn't about tax dollars. This is about increasing ridership and
benefiting the environment. Currently most munis are deep in the
red. They could be less deep in the red if they'd promote bus usage
by cyclists.

Example: Placerville is higher than El Dorado Hills or Cameron
Park. Most riders find it "too stressful" to ride uphill for all
those miles and then later back down. What they do now is park one
truck in the valley and pile into another truck with the bikes
going up into the hills. Later the truck in the valley must be
driven all the way up into the hills to retrieve the other truck.
An environmental disaster plus missed income for the muni.

They nearly all have 27-1/2" bikes these days so won't fit on the
bus. Nobody expects a cargo bike or a bike trailer to go on a bus
rack but people do expect contemporary bikes to fit.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Bus racks were designed and implemented BEFORE those wheel sizes
became very popular. If the rack were being designed to day then
those wheel sizes would most likely be accommodated.


Most of the buses were recently equipped with racks, as recent as 2017.
29er bikes were popular in this region many years before that and that
is even true for 27-1/2". This would mean the transit agency purchased
rather outdated equipment. It doesn't matter when the design happened,
it is not wise to purchase an obsolete design.


One thing I notice with a lot with bicycles on bus bike racks is that
the front wheel hook is often placed in front of the highest point of
the bicycle wheel. Thus if the hook failed in transit it could slip
off the wheel. i always place the hook behind the highest point of
the wheel = bewteen the highest point of the wheel and the bicycle
head tube.


In my case it didn't even go that far, it couldn't be pulled out far
enough to go over a 29" MTB wheel. Yet another design flaw. So I had to
make double sure that the other wheel (being mostly out of the slot) was
cinched down hard. Every time the driver made a speedy right turn I held
my breath. Same for left turns because my riding buddy's 29er bike had
to be strapped in the same way, just opposite.

There are so many things that could be done better on these racks.
Lights up front for example because bikes block the view of lights and
turn signals in some directions:

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/sho...8df2678ec2064b

Two wheel hooks per bike would make the mount much safer and, if locked,
allow an open slot which makes loading and unloading easier for people
that aren't very muscular or have lower back issues.

Then the wheel hooks could be lockable like aircraft landing gear,
releasable via button only by the bus driver. This avoids someone
rushing up to a bus stopped in traffic, snatching a bike and hightailing
it. Or a guy stepping off the bus thinking "Oh, I like that Bianchi much
better than my bike!". It's also much safer because then the hooks can't
come loose during the ride.

Those changes are fairly simple from an engineering POV and low in cost.

What puzzled as well me was the wasteful seating arrangement in the bus.
The front wheel wells were covered by large plastic boxes, no seats
there at all. In Europe they had seats that matched those wheel wells in
their positions.

The rear of the bus was raised so there were two steps up. For whatever
reason, because American bus engines can't be that much taller than
European ones. If they bought European style buses instead, with the
middle doors a little more aft that usual, last 3rd of the bus no seats
but with the rear bench left in place for bike riders, plus maybe one
more row, some tie-downs, that would accommodate bikes in the bus and
would also be much better for wheelchair access. This is how our light
rail does it where you can carry the bike onto the train. A downside are
the steep stairs, plus the doors lack proper sensor protection so they
tend to close onto you and the bike frame. It's Siemens cars so it seems
Europeans can mess that up as well.

I just wish that in transport they would hold proper design reviews with
user involvement like we do (have to do) them in med-tech.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 14:09:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with
rectangular ring might work. They're fast to install
and surprisingly strong. See, for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht







Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of
course, there remains the risk that a picky bus driver
refuses to accept that mounting method and we'd be
stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should
have known it wouldn't work for you.** ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my
advice. "Can you come over and look at this? You're an
engineer."* So I'd visit and hear "The garage door track
is coming loose" or "This table I'm building has wobbly
legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of
my bike" or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in
"You need something to resist that bending moment, so if
you add a brace here" or "... if you screw this in two
places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and
spout some nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me
about problems now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I
see why that bothers you. What do you think?" and later
"Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer
would understand that plastic buckles will not be adequate
for holding a bike wheel _on_ the slot (not _in_ the slot)
at freeway speeds and when taking corners at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so
I've modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've
never put them on a bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by
enough riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the
singletrack but this time I rode with a much slower rider and we
would have not made it back home in time without using the bus
for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a
small distant shot of a bike that fits. You said the big
clamp bar worked on your rear wheel, so it's not clear how
your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped
down which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we
cinched that as tight as we could.


... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round
top tube of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


... If so, it's probably no big deal. Gravity is holding it
down. Straps would mostly be insurance against jostling. The
forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the
bike would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not
sufficient. You've given only your assertion. I don't value
your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to
me experience matters the most.


... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester. That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces) are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)
but it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.

Keep digging, Joerg.

As Abraham Lincoln is quoted as sayng "No man has a good enough memory
to be a successful liar".

On 8/27/2018 3:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 12:05, AMuzi wrote:

Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate white people's
various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus system doing for brown
cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG


It isn't about tax dollars. This is about increasing ridership and
benefiting the environment. Currently most munis are deep in the red.
They could be less deep in the red if they'd promote bus usage by cyclists.

Example: Placerville is higher than El Dorado Hills or Cameron Park.
Most riders find it "too stressful" to ride uphill for all those miles
and then later back down. What they do now is park one truck in the
valley and pile into another truck with the bikes going up into the
hills. Later the truck in the valley must be driven all the way up into
the hills to retrieve the other truck. An environmental disaster plus
missed income for the muni.

They nearly all have 27-1/2" bikes these days so won't fit on the bus.
Nobody expects a cargo bike or a bike trailer to go on a bus rack but
people do expect contemporary bikes to fit.

Golly, running buses into distant towns for the convenience of mountain
bikers! Why, oh why, haven't transit companies realized that would be
such a profitable enterprise?

Most of them waste their resources in dense areas where they might get
dozens of people per trip, instead of 3 or 4 people with bikes. What are
they thinking?

But it does point out a business opportunity. "Joerg's 27 1/2" Bike
Shuttle!" Advertise it well, and I'm sure you'll make ones of dollars. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2018-08-27 19:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 3:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 12:05, AMuzi wrote:

Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate white people's
various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus system doing for brown
cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG


It isn't about tax dollars. This is about increasing ridership and
benefiting the environment. Currently most munis are deep in the red.
They could be less deep in the red if they'd promote bus usage by
cyclists.

Example: Placerville is higher than El Dorado Hills or Cameron Park.
Most riders find it "too stressful" to ride uphill for all those miles
and then later back down. What they do now is park one truck in the
valley and pile into another truck with the bikes going up into the
hills. Later the truck in the valley must be driven all the way up
into the hills to retrieve the other truck. An environmental disaster
plus missed income for the muni.

They nearly all have 27-1/2" bikes these days so won't fit on the bus.
Nobody expects a cargo bike or a bike trailer to go on a bus rack but
people do expect contemporary bikes to fit.

Golly, running buses into distant towns for the convenience of mountain
bikers! Why, oh why, haven't transit companies realized that would be
such a profitable enterprise?


That's your usual premature conclusion. This happens to be the 50x (for
Express) bus that connects three towns along Highway 50. If happens to
have it's last stop at Walmart in Placerville. This happens to be one
end of a long singletrack.


Most of them waste their resources in dense areas where they might get
dozens of people per trip, instead of 3 or 4 people with bikes. What are
they thinking?

But it does point out a business opportunity. "Joerg's 27 1/2" Bike
Shuttle!" Advertise it well, and I'm sure you'll make ones of dollars. ;-)


As usual, you've got no clue whatsoever about our bus routes yet profess
an opinion anyhow.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 8/28/2018 7:49 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

But it does point out a business opportunity. "Joerg's 27 1/2" Bike
Shuttle!" Advertise it well, and I'm sure you'll make ones of
dollars.Â* ;-)


As usual, you've got no clue whatsoever about our bus routes yet profess
an opinion anyhow.

I'm guessing that in Ohio the buses don't have bike racks! But I would
be wrong! See
http://www.wrtaonline.com/2017/07/11/bicycle-rack-procedures-fixed-route/.

The reason for bike racks on transit is to have a solution for "the last
mile" between the transit stop and home, or the transit stop and work
(or shopping, or whatever).

The cost of adding a bike rack to a bus is a one-time, minuscule cost,
that encourages more transit ridership. Since the incremental cost of
each extra transit rider is very small, the additional revenue earned
from accommodating bicycles is all upside.

You can see how popular bikes on transit is around here. The bike racks
on buses are often full, even when the bus is not. On the trains, they
are packed with bikes. Caltrain has space for 72 to 80 bikes per train
and they often have to turn people away.

On Caltrain, the bicycle capacity does have a downside. Caltrain trains
are packed at commute times, and the bike racks take up considerable
space so the trains have had to add more cars which does increase
operating costs slightly, but the ticket revenue covers that incremental
cost since fares are so high.

Caltrans operates a Bay Bridge bike shuttle service which is a great
deal for crossing the bay with your bicycle during commute times. $1 to
go from MacArthur BART to near downtown San Francisco.

On 2018-08-28 09:17, sms wrote:
On 8/28/2018 7:49 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

But it does point out a business opportunity. "Joerg's 27 1/2" Bike
Shuttle!" Advertise it well, and I'm sure you'll make ones of
dollars. ;-)


As usual, you've got no clue whatsoever about our bus routes yet
profess an opinion anyhow.

I'm guessing that in Ohio the buses don't have bike racks! But I would
be wrong! See
http://www.wrtaonline.com/2017/07/11/bicycle-rack-procedures-fixed-route/.


The reason for bike racks on transit is to have a solution for "the last
mile" between the transit stop and home, or the transit stop and work
(or shopping, or whatever).


Or to avoid having to pay yet another bus fare for two more stops on a
connecting route.


The cost of adding a bike rack to a bus is a one-time, minuscule cost,
that encourages more transit ridership. Since the incremental cost of
each extra transit rider is very small, the additional revenue earned
from accommodating bicycles is all upside.


Exactly. Some people understand that, others don't.


You can see how popular bikes on transit is around here. The bike racks
on buses are often full, even when the bus is not. On the trains, they
are packed with bikes. Caltrain has space for 72 to 80 bikes per train
and they often have to turn people away.


That is the other issue. You can't plan on being somewhere at a certain
time if using bike and bus. When the rack is full you must either ride
the whole route or wait up to an hour hoping the next bus has an empty
rack slot. You'd be late.

The homeless use the buses with some sort of freebie pass. Nearly all
have bikes and that fills the racks quickly.


On Caltrain, the bicycle capacity does have a downside. Caltrain trains
are packed at commute times, and the bike racks take up considerable
space so the trains have had to add more cars which does increase
operating costs slightly, but the ticket revenue covers that incremental
cost since fares are so high.


Here the racks help ridership a lot. In part because there are no free
transfers. Beats me why. If you wanted to go from your home to, say, a
dentist in another town whose office is not along a main artery you'd
have for pay for three bus tickets each way. That gets expensive. With a
bike you can cycle the first and last leg which takes just a few miles
and is acceptable even to non-RBT folks.


Caltrans operates a Bay Bridge bike shuttle service which is a great
deal for crossing the bay with your bicycle during commute times. $1 to
go from MacArthur BART to near downtown San Francisco.


After seeing the latest BART pictures I don't want to use those trains.
Yuck!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-08-24 07:35, Joerg wrote:
Couldn't believe it. Those great agency folks obviously didn't test the
bike racks for our local buses before signing the contract. Long story
short my 29er bike didn't fit in and neither did my friend's. Luckily
the driver was patient and helpful. We had to load the bikes reversed so
the hook goes over the rear wheel. Not easy because of my panniers but
worked, somehow. The front wheels now rode up on the other side of the
rack slot. We both had bungee cords with which we strapped them down as
hard as we could. Oh, and the slot width barely fit my 2.25" wide MTB
tires barely squeezed in and I had to push down hard. The rack looks
like this:

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/sho...8df2678ec2064b


When we arrived another rider put his 26" MTB on there on even that
barely fit in (rear wheel rode up half an inch).

Does anyone know a better "strap down" method that is faster than
wrapping a bungee around rim and rack numerous times?


Today I did a road bike trip where I also used the bus. The bus had a
3-slot rack but only the innermost slot was designed correctly with one
end open.

The two outer slots were the same as before, bad design, too short. I
know that Jay and Sir won't believe this but I tried and verified it: My
road bike did _not_ go into those outer slots. Luckily the inner slot
was free.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 16:29:41 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-08-24 07:35, Joerg wrote:
Couldn't believe it. Those great agency folks obviously didn't test the
bike racks for our local buses before signing the contract. Long story
short my 29er bike didn't fit in and neither did my friend's. Luckily
the driver was patient and helpful. We had to load the bikes reversed so
the hook goes over the rear wheel. Not easy because of my panniers but
worked, somehow. The front wheels now rode up on the other side of the
rack slot. We both had bungee cords with which we strapped them down as
hard as we could. Oh, and the slot width barely fit my 2.25" wide MTB
tires barely squeezed in and I had to push down hard. The rack looks
like this:

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/sho...8df2678ec2064b


When we arrived another rider put his 26" MTB on there on even that
barely fit in (rear wheel rode up half an inch).

Does anyone know a better "strap down" method that is faster than
wrapping a bungee around rim and rack numerous times?


Today I did a road bike trip where I also used the bus. The bus had a
3-slot rack but only the innermost slot was designed correctly with one
end open.

The two outer slots were the same as before, bad design, too short. I
know that Jay and Sir won't believe this but I tried and verified it: My
road bike did _not_ go into those outer slots. Luckily the inner slot
was free.

Are you sure that it is the bike rack that is at fault? After all, it
might be that your bike is too long.

Or perhaps that is too subtle for you?
--
Cheers

John B.