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Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 9th 04, 05:03 PM
Jonesy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message ...
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...
"Dan Volker" wrote in message

...
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...
"Dan Volker" wrote in message
...


Oh, and the Liquid 25 is not a free ride bike, its an "All

Mountain"
bike.

Ahh, another idiot who's fallen for marketing hype. Hmmm, a 5" travel
bike, in the 30-35lb range, sort of inbetween XC and DH.


Versus the idiot who has fallen for the "lighter is better" hype


You must have me confused with someone else. I've never written that.
If you had any clue at all, you'd already know I prefer durable over
light.


This had just gravitated to "marketing hype".


Actually, it hadn't. By calling a freeride bike an "all mountain"
bike, the bike companies get to market to a different demographic.
Same bike, different image, more buyers. You are the idiot in my
comment.

Had you been included in an
"idiot category" that I was talking about as a market niche


That's a nice backstroke, but I'm not buying it. If you had meant
plural idiots, you should have written it that way. Getting all
pedantic is pretty funny, however. Trying to recast your comments as
general is damn hilarious - flail on, boy!

along with
the "lure" of less mental involvement required when using a SS
bike


Oh, now I'll bet you really are gonna feel stupid. I don't have a SS,
and I don't think they're all that great. I *like* gears.


Maybe I did make a mistake here


See, now that's where you should have stopped. You goofed, and
*almost* made an admission that you goofed, but then you went and just
shoved your head right back up your ass again. *sigh*

And it a Trek "girl's" name --the rep is a girl.


Woman, Danny. If they are under the age of puberty, they're girls.


[snip]

First you get all ****y 'cuz I don't use the exact, specific term for
whatever marketing droid came up with for your bike, and then you
don't like it when someone else corrects *your* terminology? Nice
double-standard, Danny.

Of course, when you're flailing about, anything to argue about is
good.

My mistake for ASSuming.


Just your mistake for being an ass....


The irony is hilarious.


I will have to talk with
her again before I hand over her number or name on the Internet to a

"piece
of work" like yourself.


Just e-mail me her Trek e-mail addy. That ought to be good enough.
But you ain't got the guts to hear that I was right, AND wouldn't be
man enough to admit you were wrong, so I won't expect too much.



Next time I go to the LBS


Ah, now comes the dodge-and-weave. I knew you were too chicken**** to
come through. LOL - every post you make verifies the criticisms of
you. Classic "Rule of Holes" example.

Don't bother with her e-mail Danny - I have something better in
mind...
--
Jonesy
Ads
  #22  
Old June 11th 04, 12:17 PM
Dan Volker
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Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)


"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

light.


This had just gravitated to "marketing hype".


Actually, it hadn't. By calling a freeride bike an "all mountain"
bike, the bike companies get to market to a different demographic.
Same bike, different image, more buyers. You are the idiot in my
comment.


Somehow I feel as though I'm argueing with a retard. You are practically
defining one basic form of marketing hype. In any event, there is a useful
distinction here, so its not the grave injustice you would attribute to it.
By your own admission, many X-country bikes have evolved into lightweight
machines that are clearly sacrificing some durability for lighter weight.
There is a market niche out there, composed of people who don't want this at
all, but instead, want a bike which is built to take more abuse. This market
is not interested in hucking 8 foot drops, or riding a dirt jump over and
over again ( covering about 150 feet of trail in one whole day). That would
be the pure "Freeride Bike" market, where bikes are evolving into machines
which can take bigger and bigger drops--as in being able to jump over busses
or houses;-) and in this evolution, with typal degeration of species, the
bikes won't have to climb well, since these riders are not concerned with
aerobic performance, and would often prefer to walk or take a shuttle, than
to pedal uphill. Who knows, some of these bikes may even come with an
ashtray or cigarette holder.

.. The market actually trail rides and climbs hills, but that is looking for
more durrable and more reasonable abuse potential, have a category "created"
for them, called "All Mountain" bikes. While in its early development, such
categorization may well be more marketing hype, if it really is something
that people want, and the niche is large enough, this will be an area where
the bikes really are going to evolve toward the desire of the group. These
all mountain bikes should get even better, more plush suspension, but
climbing will continue to improve, and the weight will stay far below the
dedicated freeride bikes, but well above the 22 pound x-country noodles.

Had you been included in an
"idiot category" that I was talking about as a market niche


That's a nice backstroke, but I'm not buying it. If you had meant
plural idiots, you should have written it that way. Getting all
pedantic is pretty funny, however. Trying to recast your comments as
general is damn hilarious - flail on, boy!


Actually I think you could be either a singular idiot or a plural
idiot---like "a sheep" or "sheep". But at least your good at it, and we all
know how proud you are....



My mistake for ASSuming.


Just your mistake for being an ass....




I will have to talk with
her again before I hand over her number or name on the Internet to a

"piece
of work" like yourself.

Just e-mail me her Trek e-mail addy. That ought to be good enough.
But you ain't got the guts to hear that I was right, AND wouldn't be
man enough to admit you were wrong, so I won't expect too much.



Next time I go to the LBS


Ah, now comes the dodge-and-weave. I knew you were too chicken**** to
come through. LOL - every post you make verifies the criticisms of
you. Classic "Rule of Holes" example.

Don't bother with her e-mail Danny - I have something better in
mind...


Fine, get your lazy ass on the phone with Trek Technical Support. I'd much
rather have Trek see you as completely unrelated to me ( in other words, I'd
rather not be the one introducing you).

Dan V


  #23  
Old June 14th 04, 05:12 PM
Jonesy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message . ..
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

light.


This had just gravitated to "marketing hype".


Actually, it hadn't. By calling a freeride bike an "all mountain"
bike, the bike companies get to market to a different demographic.
Same bike, different image, more buyers. You are the idiot in my
comment.


Somehow I feel as though I'm argueing with a retard.


Arguing, even. And an even more ironic comment that your previous
ones. Keep on flailing, I love every minute of it.

You are practically
defining one basic form of marketing hype.


No ****? How did you figure that one out? Oh, right - because I said
it was hype in the first place.



. The market actually trail rides and climbs hills, but that is looking for
more durrable and more reasonable abuse potential, have a category "created"
for them, called "All Mountain" bikes.


Which, oddly, has the same sorts of components and specs that
"freeride" bikes had 3 years ago. How odd.

And of course, the "freeride" bikes are no longer that, but are now
"black diamond" bikes, the PC term for free-riding. Just like there
is a range of XC bikes, from super-light to downright piggish, there
is a range of "free-ride" bikes in the same fashion. Calling them
something different doesn't make them different. "Race" XC, "Epic"
XC, etc.

That's a nice backstroke, but I'm not buying it. If you had meant
plural idiots, you should have written it that way. Getting all
pedantic is pretty funny, however. Trying to recast your comments as
general is damn hilarious - flail on, boy!


Actually I think you could be either a singular idiot or a plural
idiot---like "a sheep" or "sheep".


Bzzzt. Wrong, as usual.

Next time I go to the LBS


Ah, now comes the dodge-and-weave. I knew you were too chicken**** to
come through. LOL - every post you make verifies the criticisms of
you. Classic "Rule of Holes" example.

Don't bother with her e-mail Danny - I have something better in
mind...


Fine, get your lazy ass on the phone with Trek Technical Support.


LOL. Lazy? I was looking for you to back up your smack talk with
something solid. And, as usual, all you have is excuses and
qualifiers. Backstroker extraordinaire.

I'd much
rather have Trek see you as completely unrelated to me


LOL! Like you actually have something to lose from an innocent
question. Sure thing, Mr. Ego.

So I did ask Trek customer support. If you go to the Trek website,
and fill in their tech assistance form with your e-mail and question
text, they get right back to you. I have e-mail sitting in my inbox,
and I'll bet you'd love to know what they said.

Well, since I'm actually following up your comments, I think we both
know what they said. Maybe your tech rep is a rookie, or is mistaken,
or you are just a liar - I don't know which. Since anyone can fill in
that form and ask about components on a bike being different from the
ones listed on the website or the catalog, I am guessing you went all
the way out on the limb because you figured that bluff and bluster are
enough to get by. Any old retard can go to the website and fill in
the form. What does that say about you?

And if *anyone* questions that I actually hold the e-mails, I will
forward a copy to them if they want proof. But they can get the same
answer I did by e-mailing Trek tech support, so why would they bother?

A real man would admit his mistakes. Too bad you can't, huh, Danny?
--
Jonesy
  #24  
Old June 16th 04, 03:31 PM
Dan Volker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)


"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

So I did ask Trek customer support. If you go to the Trek website,
and fill in their tech assistance form with your e-mail and question
text, they get right back to you. I have e-mail sitting in my inbox,
and I'll bet you'd love to know what they said.

Well, since I'm actually following up your comments, I think we both
know what they said. Maybe your tech rep is a rookie, or is mistaken,
or you are just a liar - I don't know which. Since anyone can fill in
that form and ask about components on a bike being different from the
ones listed on the website or the catalog, I am guessing you went all
the way out on the limb because you figured that bluff and bluster are
enough to get by. Any old retard can go to the website and fill in
the form. What does that say about you?

And if *anyone* questions that I actually hold the e-mails, I will
forward a copy to them if they want proof. But they can get the same
answer I did by e-mailing Trek tech support, so why would they bother?

A real man would admit his mistakes. Too bad you can't, huh, Danny?


If I made one, I would admit it. In this case, I don't know if you are
fabricating stories or what, but to see the result from the Trek site, I
e-mailed a question in, asking for clarification on the information you were
putting out, that Trek 25's or 50's could be assembled in bike shops with
equipment other than what is speced on the website for them. Here is the
response:
Thanks for writing

I would say this is untrue. We spec the 25 with the SPV, the 30 and 10
belongs to our all mountain adjustable travel category (which would be the
fox). And the 25 and 55 to our all mountain fixed travel (which would be the
SPV).

We do not recommend shops changing out parts for others. What we spec on the
bike from factory is what should be solf on the bike unless the consumer has
something changed out to his liking.

Josh Vick

Gary Fisher/Trek Tech Support




--
Jonesy



  #25  
Old June 16th 04, 07:21 PM
JD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message . ..
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...
A real man would admit his mistakes. Too bad you can't, huh, Danny?


If I made one, I would admit it. In this case, I don't know if you are
fabricating stories or what, but to see the result from the Trek site, I
e-mailed a question in, asking for clarification on the information you were
putting out, that Trek 25's or 50's could be assembled in bike shops with
equipment other than what is speced on the website for them. Here is the
response:
Thanks for writing

I would say this is untrue. We spec the 25 with the SPV, the 30 and 10
belongs to our all mountain adjustable travel category (which would be the
fox). And the 25 and 55 to our all mountain fixed travel (which would be the
SPV).

We do not recommend shops changing out parts for others. What we spec on the
bike from factory is what should be solf on the bike unless the consumer has
something changed out to his liking.

Josh Vick

Gary Fisher/Trek Tech Support



Are you really that gullible? Wow, words taken from someone who is
*paid* to sing the party line. It MUST be true! Maybe some day you
will grow a brain, Vo2lker.

JD
  #26  
Old June 16th 04, 07:34 PM
Jonesy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message . ..
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

So I did ask Trek customer support. If you go to the Trek website,
and fill in their tech assistance form with your e-mail and question
text, they get right back to you. I have e-mail sitting in my inbox,
and I'll bet you'd love to know what they said.

Well, since I'm actually following up your comments, I think we both
know what they said. Maybe your tech rep is a rookie, or is mistaken,
or you are just a liar - I don't know which. Since anyone can fill in
that form and ask about components on a bike being different from the
ones listed on the website or the catalog, I am guessing you went all
the way out on the limb because you figured that bluff and bluster are
enough to get by. Any old retard can go to the website and fill in
the form. What does that say about you?

And if *anyone* questions that I actually hold the e-mails, I will
forward a copy to them if they want proof. But they can get the same
answer I did by e-mailing Trek tech support, so why would they bother?

A real man would admit his mistakes. Too bad you can't, huh, Danny?


If I made one, I would admit it.


Well, you've made two big ones so far, and are doing your damnest to
avoid them.

I
e-mailed a question in, asking for clarification on the information you were
putting out, that Trek 25's or 50's could be assembled in bike shops with
equipment other than what is speced on the website for them.


I never claimed that at all. *You* claimed that. I'll let you root
around in the posts to try and find where I claimed that, anywhere.

Here is the
response:


Could you print for all of us EXACTLY what the question was? I think
you are setting up a nice, fat lie to save face...

I would say this is untrue.


What would that be? Your question is unknown, so maybe you are
"cooking the books."

We spec the 25 with the SPV, the 30 and 10
belongs to our all mountain adjustable travel category (which would be the
fox). And the 25 and 55 to our all mountain fixed travel (which would be the
SPV).


Hmmm, now I see where you start the lying, Danny. How pathetic.
Anyone can go look up where we were talking about FORK specs! The
shock in the frame is model-specific. No argument was ever made to
the contrary. You'd better go back and do some reading, before I have
to humiliate you further.

We do not recommend shops changing out parts for others


Ooops, this implies the *shop* is making the change, rather than the
changes originating at the factory. I never claimed the *shop* made
the change. That was *your* claim.

What we spec on the
bike from factory is what should be solf on the bike unless the consumer has
something changed out to his liking.


Exactly. The key phrase "...we spec on the bike from the factory."

Not "how the bike is specced on the wesite"

IOW, the bikes might actually come from the factory with a different
fork spec, JUST LIKE I CLAIMED.

This is very sad attempt, Danny.

Now don't make me go back and show you that we were talking about
forks, and not the shock in the frame, nor that the LBS was swapping
out parts, and just admit that you were wrong. And I have the header
info from the e-mail (from Josh) that shows I actually have the
e-mail.

You can't even lie very well, can you?

Let the backstroking begin...
--
Jonesy
  #27  
Old June 16th 04, 08:11 PM
Dan Volker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)


"Jonesy" wrote in message
m...
"Dan Volker" wrote in message

. ..
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

So I did ask Trek customer support. If you go to the Trek website,
and fill in their tech assistance form with your e-mail and question
text, they get right back to you. I have e-mail sitting in my inbox,
and I'll bet you'd love to know what they said.

Well, since I'm actually following up your comments, I think we both
know what they said. Maybe your tech rep is a rookie, or is mistaken,
or you are just a liar - I don't know which. Since anyone can fill in
that form and ask about components on a bike being different from the
ones listed on the website or the catalog, I am guessing you went all
the way out on the limb because you figured that bluff and bluster are
enough to get by. Any old retard can go to the website and fill in
the form. What does that say about you?

And if *anyone* questions that I actually hold the e-mails, I will
forward a copy to them if they want proof. But they can get the same
answer I did by e-mailing Trek tech support, so why would they bother?

A real man would admit his mistakes. Too bad you can't, huh, Danny?


If I made one, I would admit it.


Well, you've made two big ones so far, and are doing your damnest to
avoid them.

I
e-mailed a question in, asking for clarification on the information you

were
putting out, that Trek 25's or 50's could be assembled in bike shops

with
equipment other than what is speced on the website for them.


I never claimed that at all. *You* claimed that. I'll let you root
around in the posts to try and find where I claimed that, anywhere.


Sorry weasel, here is just one of your posts to this effect
:
Dan Volker" wrote in message
.. .
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

It helps to know *something*, so you can separate the hype from the
reality.


In your case, knowing something may be too much to hope for :-)


Look up the word "irony."

Since the Trek Liquid 25
rode better than any of the other bikes I demoed or rode on real

trails

Which ones were those?


Canondales, Specialized, Diamond Back


What models?


Santa Cruz Blur, Intense Spyder.


I didn't know these were long-travel free-ride style bikes. Hmmm.

100% bull****. Why? I rode a Fuel 90 the day before, and they had
the same craptastic Bontrager tires. Even the same damn size. And
according to my tire gauge, they were filled to the same pressure,

and
were ridden on the same trail. The Fuel was slightly flexy, but you
really had to be paying attention to notice. The Liquid was all

over
the damn place. And it wasn't only the rear. The damn Rock Sux

Pilot
they had on there blew chunks every which way.


It must suck when your mind goes---try to remember I was talking about an
entirely different bike than you are.


Trek Liquid. That's the bike, right? Whether it's a 25 or a 30,
you're just being dumb (redundancy, I know, I know...)

Flexy, fiddly travel
adjust that wasn't worth anything - not confidence inspiring.


Which does not exist on a 25. Check the website.


Which makes exactly what difference in how flexy the bike is? You
still haven't manged to explain that...

Don't you just love it when you catch someone spewing bull**** ? :-)

Like
just now, you are going on about the Liquid and how bad the Rock Sux

Pilot
was----The thing is Jonesy, that the Liquid 25 does not come with Rock
Shocks.


Sure it does. Look at the website - a psylo.



[snip specs]

My mistake - I clicked on the 30.

There is no other way a 25 gets spec'd. Its not up to the LBS.


Ooops, you had me, then you went and got all stupid.

There are two Trek dealers within 10 miles of here. They each have a
boatload of Fuels and Liquids in the stores. So, I went and looked at
the Liquids.

Near LBS, Liquid 25 - Manitou Black
Far LBS, Liquid 25 - Rock Shox Pilot

Near LBS, Fuel 90 - Rock Shox Psylo
Far LBS, Fuel 90 - Manitou Black.

Hmmm, maybe you don't know everything about how every LBS specs,
loans, test-rides, or prices their bikes, huh?

Mine had a Pilot, maybe
specced by the LBS - who knows? Yes, I think I know exactly what I
rode. Maybe it was not specced out EXACTLY like the ones at your LBS,
but here's the details:

Adjustable-height shock.
Hayes Hydraulics.
Bontrager wheelset and tires.
Pilot fork.


Not a 25.


No ****. It was a 30. I know you think you're making a point, so I'm
gonna leave it at "yeah, the 25 and 30 are completely different bikes
- so different they feel like they were made by different
manufacturers."

LMAO.

You must have been riding the adjustable travel version--maybe a
Liquid 10--this is a completely differrent bike, one without SPV.


Yo, ****-for-brains - it's the very same frame. Only the paint is
different. So, I was riding one with a black-painted frame - what
does *that* tell you, genious?


[snip no-response]

If you look at the pictures of the frames, the 30 got the black paint.

The Liquid
25 has Manitou shocks with SPV front and rear. The Liquid 25 handles

NOTHING
like the Liquid 10---I would NEVER buy a Liquid 10.


It's the same damn frame. And side/side flex has NOTHING to do with
the type of shock. The mounting points are exactly alike, and these
shocks all move in only one axis.

The ass end would flex LATERALLY on corners, regardless of the shock's
position in it's stroke. That's not the shock, bubba. It's the bike.


Consider that when doing some high speed cornering, the rear shock should

be
engaging in both positive and negative travel, to keep the rear wheel

glued
to the ground as much as possible.


Exactly what has this to do with the internals filtering low-frequency
inputs? What's that, you say? Nothing? Yup, you're right. When
you're not pedalling, the bikes have *essentially* the same behavior,
assuming the shock is set up correctly.

Apparently, the Rockshock does not--if it is possible to
garner some sense from all the erroneus conclusions you are drawing


Before you swell any more, let me clue you in: Fox TALAS R.

It wasn't the tires, nor the pressure in them. Nice try, though.


Well, you messed up on identifying what was "most catastrophically

wrong" by
riding and reviewing a totally different bike


Have you forgotten that the frame is the same?


Have you forgotten that the shocks keep the tires tracking on the trail,

so
that they don't loose traction ?


So, one of these shocks, the one that keeps the bike from bobbing when
pedalling, somehow does a better job of doing something other than
that than the shock that wasn't designed to keep the bike from bobbing
when pedalling?

You're no mechanical genious, that's for damn sure.

Clue (again): When not pedalling, the shocks will act almost
identically, since they were both designed to do exactly that. ONE of
these shocks will filter low-freq. inputs, and the other won't. Trail
bumps are not low-freq.

Clue (yet again): If the wheel is not in contact with the trail as
much, then the rear end wouldn't apear to flex as much. Has to have
contact with the ground in order to flex the system.

And again, even if a person does not want to buy a Trek, going to a
Trek DEMO at a good trail, will be much easier for most Americans than
finding a LBS that will let you ride their bikes on a good trail.


Now you know about LBSs across the country? You're an idiot.


I know what I hear from other riders on NG's


Except what you think you know, you actually don't. Funny, that's a
recurring theme with you. You know all about SS bikes. Ooops, you
don't. You know all about "technical." Ooops, you don't. You know
all about how minor spec differences make a world of difference on
bikes with the same frame. LOL, nope. Now, you know all about the
pricing, speccing, loaning and sexual habits of every LBS in the
world. Uhh, yeah.

Four LBSs within a 15 mile radius. All four will let you take a bike
for the day. Mostly, the policy is, "you break it, you own it." So
you blanket statement just doesn't wash.

Oh, it was the wrong bike alright, but since all of the Liquid line
has the same frame, minor things like whether or not the shock filters
low-frequency inputs doesn't matter a bit.


And comments like this beg the question---" Did you ever finish high
school?"


And your comments beg the question: Do you know how suspension
components actually work, or is all you're good for is to make
hilariously ironic quips?

I rode a 30, you rode a 25. Saying that they are somehow vastly
different strains even the mediocre mind.


Sorry you are experiencing so much brain strain on this discussion.


You obviously have reading comprehension problems. Maybe you should
figure out where you went so horribly wrong and get back to me.

LOL. Irony, much? I watched you ride in the video, and heard your
description. Good enough for me, despite your mewling excuses
afterwards.


Really.


Yeah, really. All your excuses just make you look like a whining kid.

So, if you know so damn much, why aren't the Specialized or Marin
bikes as good or better choices than your Liquid Rear End?

I don't think they are.


I didn't ask for a reiteration of your opinion, but for a WHY.


You can't handle the truth


A clever quip. But one that lets you wiggle out of explaining the
differences. I know, when you run out of room, tap dance! Go ahead -
so far you've had an amusing version of the truth, and I seem to be
handling that just fine. Go ahead and try me, if you think you have
what it take.

Jonesey, I almost feel sorry for you. Almost.


No you don't. You're afraid that if you give any details, you'll be
exposed for the fraud that you are. LOL.
--
Jonesy
-------------------------------


Here is the
response:


Could you print for all of us EXACTLY what the question was? I think
you are setting up a nice, fat lie to save face...


Trek uses a form, so I don't have the e-mail I sent.
I just explained that you were saying that bike shops could spec a Liquid 25
or 50 with the adjustible travel forks or shocks if they wanted---and still
claim the bike is a liquid 25 or 50. He clearly indicates the meaning of 25
or 50 makes this incorrect. He does say that a customer can buy a liquid 25
or 50, and ask the bike shop to swap out forks or shocks differently. Even
your dull wit should realize this means you were wrong, but I'm sure you
will try to twist things around.



I would say this is untrue.


What would that be? Your question is unknown, so maybe you are
"cooking the books."

We spec the 25 with the SPV, the 30 and 10
belongs to our all mountain adjustable travel category (which would be

the
fox). And the 25 and 55 to our all mountain fixed travel (which would be

the
SPV).


Hmmm, now I see where you start the lying, Danny. How pathetic.
Anyone can go look up where we were talking about FORK specs! The
shock in the frame is model-specific. No argument was ever made to
the contrary. You'd better go back and do some reading, before I have
to humiliate you further.


Yeah right...go back to the post of your I have inserted above. Do you think
the readers in this NG are as dim-witted as you are ? Or as lazy?



We do not recommend shops changing out parts for others


Ooops, this implies the *shop* is making the change, rather than the
changes originating at the factory. I never claimed the *shop* made
the change. That was *your* claim.


Again, your failures in the English language could fill a book. The Trek rep
is stating that they ship out bikes with a certain, model specific spec.
He is also saying that your contention that a bike shop can change this
spec, is not something that Trek would want the shops to do--although he
also says that if a customer orders a 25 or 50, and on delivery to the shop,
wants a fork or shock swapped, that is up to the customer and shop, and is
fine with Trek. Hopefully your mind is capable of grasping the distinction
here---there is a model spec from the manufacturer--the one I've repeatedly
referred to. And the bike shops are NOT supposed to order a Trek Liquid 25
or 50, then put it in the show room to sell in the next days or weeks, and
have it assembled with anything other than the parts that Trek specs to the
model. If a customer wants to buy the bike, then and only then can things be
swapped around. This is common sense. I can't believe you are so insecure
you'd rather lie and argue about this than just admit your mistake!!!!



What we spec on the
bike from factory is what should be solf on the bike unless the consumer

has
something changed out to his liking.


Exactly. The key phrase "...we spec on the bike from the factory."

Not "how the bike is specced on the wesite"


Factory and web spec are the same. He is giving you customer options at time
of purchase as the only change to this.
Hopefully someone else is reading this and they can help spell this out for
you--or maybe call you and say all these words slowly for you ;-)




IOW, the bikes might actually come from the factory with a different
fork spec, JUST LIKE I CLAIMED.



Wow. Its amazing how far you can actually stick that head of yours up your
rear end.
What drugs are you on?



Dan V


  #28  
Old June 16th 04, 08:51 PM
Stephen Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

Danny says:

huge snip

If you look at the pictures of the frames, the 30 got the black paint.


And if you actually read the site, it didn't... it is black anodised.

Also, here is a direct quote from the Trek site:

"Trek reserves the right to make changes at any time, without notice, in
colors, materials, equipment, specifications and models. "

Which means, if they are anything like any other company, that if their JIT
ordering of Brand X forks or shocks doesn't arrive, they'll either fit what
they have, or what they can get.

Steve "outa here..."

  #29  
Old June 16th 04, 09:06 PM
Dan Volker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)


"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Danny says:

huge snip

If you look at the pictures of the frames, the 30 got the black paint.


And if you actually read the site, it didn't... it is black anodised.

Also, here is a direct quote from the Trek site:

"Trek reserves the right to make changes at any time, without notice, in
colors, materials, equipment, specifications and models. "

Which means, if they are anything like any other company, that if their

JIT
ordering of Brand X forks or shocks doesn't arrive, they'll either fit

what
they have, or what they can get.

Steve "outa here..."


Certainly they could make a change at the last minute, but you would expect
this change to be within the feature set of the model you are looking
at--i.e., if you are looking at the Liquid 25 or 50, you are looking at
fixed distance 5 inch travel bikes--but if you are looking at the 10 or 30,
you are looking at adjustable travel bikes. I don't think anyone here is
going to suggest that Trek would fit an adjustable travel shock on a 25 or
50 at the last minute, regardless of parts inventories---they would pick
something which is reasonably comparable to the spec for the model.
Dan V


  #30  
Old June 17th 04, 05:26 PM
Jonesy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Danny-boy flails some more! (was: Advice on a good hardtail.)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message ...
"Jonesy" wrote in message
m...
"Dan Volker" wrote in message

. ..
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...

I
e-mailed a question in, asking for clarification on the information you

were
putting out, that Trek 25's or 50's could be assembled in bike shops

with
equipment other than what is speced on the website for them.


I never claimed that at all. *You* claimed that. I'll let you root
around in the posts to try and find where I claimed that, anywhere.


Sorry weasel, here is just one of your posts to this effect


"To that effect" means that you took what I wrote to *imply* something
that wasn't actually there.

Here's a clue for an idiot such as yourself - when trying to prove a
point, it's useful to quote just the part you're using, rather than a
whole ****ing post where 95% has nothing to do with your point. I'll
trim it down for you to include any comment of LBS and specs, and
remove the rest. Then we'll see about your fabrications.

**********

Dan Volker" wrote in message
.. .
"Jonesy" wrote in message
om...


Here is my first comment on the Pilot FORK, that was on the Liquid 30
I rode:

Flexy, fiddly travel
adjust that wasn't worth anything - not confidence inspiring.


Which does not exist on a 25. Check the website.


And your patently false comment. As though the website was the final
arbiter on the spec of the bike.

Here's where you make your wild claim that somehow all Trek bikes must
have the exact same component spec as the website. And again some
claim that the LBS is doing something different - a claim I have never
made. *YOU* are the one who keeps making it.

There is no other way a 25 gets spec'd. Its not up to the LBS.


Ooops, you had me, then you went and got all stupid.

There are two Trek dealers within 10 miles of here. They each have a
boatload of Fuels and Liquids in the stores. So, I went and looked at
the Liquids.

Near LBS, Liquid 25 - Manitou Black
Far LBS, Liquid 25 - Rock Shox Pilot

Near LBS, Fuel 90 - Rock Shox Psylo
Far LBS, Fuel 90 - Manitou Black.

Hmmm, maybe you don't know everything about how every LBS specs,
loans, test-rides, or prices their bikes, huh?


Now, in this last sentence, I can see how you might be confused as to
what I mean about "how every LBS specs" bikes. As you say, customers
can request different stuff. So it is possible for bikes to be built
that aren't EXACTLY like the website, and how it even might escape the
All Seeing Eye of Mordor, errr, Trek.

Mine had a Pilot, maybe
specced by the LBS - who knows? Yes, I think I know exactly what I
rode. Maybe it was not specced out EXACTLY like the ones at your LBS,
but here's the details:


See that "who knows" qualifier, there? It means I don't know EXACTLY
how it got a different spec. It just did. If you can't read, it's
not my problem.

*******************

So the whole thing comes down to this: I never stated anywhere that
the LBS could spec the bike "any way it wants" nor that the LBS could
swap out frame shocks or anything else that you're trying to claim.
Those quotes aren't anywhere, and if you are having difficulty
understanding that, then get your mom to read it to you slowly.

Could you print for all of us EXACTLY what the question was? I think
you are setting up a nice, fat lie to save face...


Trek uses a form, so I don't have the e-mail I sent.


Bull****. Josh attached my question to the bottom of the e-mail he
sent me. Here it is:

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2004 09:09:03 -0700
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FILETIME=[5C136A10:01C44FCE]

Thanks for writing
Yes this is normal. As the year goes on component availability runs
short and we're forced to spec the bike with different parts.

Josh Vick
Gary Fisher/Trek Tech Support

[Josh's e-mail addy deleted]


-----Original Message-----
From:

]
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 5:12 PM
To: Consumer, Trek
Subject: Trek Bikes Contact Us


Contact Us Form

Date: 2004-06-09 18:12:23

Name: Bob Jones

E-Mail:


Comments: Hello!

Within 10 miles of my home, I have two Trek dealers. Some of the
bikes
have a different, but comparable, component spec than listed on your
website. Is this normal?

Thanks,

Bob.

(Everywhere you see the word "ANTISPAM", tyhat is where I munge the
e-mail addy to keep the spambots from filling those accounts. The
e-mail is otherwise complete.)


I just explained that you were saying that bike shops could spec a Liquid 25
or 50 with the adjustible travel forks or shocks if they wanted---and still
claim the bike is a liquid 25 or 50.


Except that's a total lie. I never said anything about the frame
shocks. And I have merely reported the spec of the bikes I've seen
and ridden. I never claimed any sort of intentions or machinations of
LBS policy. That's only from you.

He clearly indicates the meaning of 25
or 50 makes this incorrect.


Well, when you make something up, of course it's false!

He does say that a customer can buy a liquid 25
or 50, and ask the bike shop to swap out forks or shocks differently.


Of course. Nobody ever claimed otherwise.

Even
your dull wit should realize this means you were wrong


If I had made the argument you are attributing to me, yes I *would* be
wrong. But I didn't - you just plain made it up.

but I'm sure you
will try to twist things around.


No twisting, just reporting FACT. Something you'll have to deal with.

We spec the 25 with the SPV, the 30 and 10
belongs to our all mountain adjustable travel category (which would be

the
fox). And the 25 and 55 to our all mountain fixed travel (which would be

the
SPV).


Hmmm, now I see where you start the lying, Danny. How pathetic.
Anyone can go look up where we were talking about FORK specs! The
shock in the frame is model-specific. No argument was ever made to
the contrary. You'd better go back and do some reading, before I have
to humiliate you further.


Yeah right...go back to the post of your I have inserted above. Do you think
the readers in this NG are as dim-witted as you are ? Or as lazy?


LOL. You'll notice that I never said anything about frame shocks.
But go ahead and find the quote, if you can (you can't, because it
just plain don't exist.

We do not recommend shops changing out parts for others


Ooops, this implies the *shop* is making the change, rather than the
changes originating at the factory. I never claimed the *shop* made
the change. That was *your* claim.


Again, your failures in the English language could fill a book.


LOL! That's pretty funny, considering how you can't find a single
quote where I say the shop is making the change.

The Trek rep
is stating that they ship out bikes with a certain, model specific spec.


And he says to me that differing component spec can happen due to
shortages. Which might show up as a differnt fork than listed on the
website. Who has reading comprehension difficulties?

He is also saying that your contention that a bike shop can change this
spec, is not something that Trek would want the shops to do--although he
also says that if a customer orders a 25 or 50, and on delivery to the shop,
wants a fork or shock swapped, that is up to the customer and shop, and is
fine with Trek.


Wow. So you finally admit that it is indeed possible to have a bike
show up from Trek with a slightly different spec than on the website?
Nice backstroke! Why in the hell do you have to argue so damn long
about it, Dumbass?

Hopefully your mind is capable of grasping the distinction
here---there is a model spec from the manufacturer--the one I've repeatedly
referred to.


And sometimes, due to parts shortages, slightly different, yet
comparable, components get put on them. From the factory.

And the bike shops are NOT supposed to order a Trek Liquid 25
or 50, then put it in the show room to sell in the next days or weeks, and
have it assembled with anything other than the parts that Trek specs to the
model.


Unless, of course, the parts that usually go on it are in short
supply, so they put parts in the box that are comparable, yet
different from the website spec.

If a customer wants to buy the bike, then and only then can things be
swapped around.


Unless Trek themselves ship a different part mix.

This is common sense. I can't believe you are so insecure
you'd rather lie and argue about this than just admit your mistake!!!!


What mistake? Josh agrees with me, and you had to lie in your
question to even have it appear that he agreed partially with you.
LOL.

What we spec on the
bike from factory is what should be solf on the bike unless the consumer

has
something changed out to his liking.


Exactly. The key phrase "...we spec on the bike from the factory."

Not "how the bike is specced on the wesite"


Factory and web spec are the same.


WExcept in the cases where the parts run short and they have to spec a
comparable, but different, part(s).

He is giving you customer options at time
of purchase as the only change to this.


Or in the case of part shortages, where the website spec parts are not
available. Of course, I did not ask the bike shop how the Pilot got
on the 30 - for all I know, a customer came in and wanted a fork swap,
so the shop swapped forks on two bikes, and the one I tested got the
left over fork. If I'd have known some USENET asshole was going to
make such a big deal out of it, I would have had them interrogated at
Abu Ghraib.

Hopefully someone else is reading this and they can help spell this out for
you--or maybe call you and say all these words slowly for you ;-)


More irony. It must be so shameful to your parents that they gave
rise to such a colossal idiot.

IOW, the bikes might actually come from the factory with a different
fork spec, JUST LIKE I CLAIMED.



Wow. Its amazing how far you can actually stick that head of yours up your
rear end.


You must be looking into a mirror.

What drugs are you on?


None. But I wish I had some of yours - the ones that make me right no
matter what evidence there is to the contrary.
--
Jonesy
 




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