Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:48:54 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 01:13:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 1:46:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:39 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 11:28:55 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
One thing I've always thought missing from the legal system was some
sort of protection of the maker from those too stupid to use the
device properly.

For example:

If YOU aren't bright enough to properly secure the wheel then the
results of YOUR failure to properly secure the wheel is YOUR fault.

Or perhaps: "Purchase of this devise is limited to those who know how
to use it".

--
Cheers,

John B.

You'd be amazed at how many people who have a bicycle with a quick release wheel do NOT know how to use the quick release properly. Most use it like a long lever to crank the release until it's tight. I've stopped bicyclists who had their quick release pointed straight out from and inline with the axle.

When I worked as a sales person in bicycle shops I ALWAYS asked a customer buying a bicycle with a quick release if they'd used one before and then I'd get them to demonstrate that they knew how to use the quick release properly. So many times a custome who did it wrong would say after being shown the right way to use it, "Gee. No one ever showed my that before." I shudder to think about how many bicycles out there are being riddn with improperly secured front wheel quick releases. Those are the people for whom lawyer Lips might be a good thing.

If you know how to do it seems so simple that "everyone must know how
to do it".

I worked on a job training heavy equipment mechanics and one of the
students was trying to tension the tracks on a crawler crane -
probably a 2" or 3" nut - turning it backward. I said something like
"Heh! Don't you know how to tighten a bolt?" The student said that
"No, he didn't know." I asked him hadn't he even tightened the wheel
on his bicycle and he replied, "No, we weren't rich. We didn't have a
bicycle."

I must add that after that experience we added a class on nuts, bolts
and threads, to our curriculum :-)

On another note.

I saw a rather stupid bicyclist as I was riding home from a nearby city late last night. This dud was wearing black or dark clothing, was riding a dark colour bicycle and had neither lights nor reflectors. the stupid part? He was doing it on a narrow unlit country road which meant the he was just about invisible most ofthe time. I only saw him as I came up abreast of him as he was riding towards me. He blended nearly perfectly into the background.

Some people truly do not have any common sense.

Cheers
--
Cheers,

John B.

What's really scary is that many of those who assemble bicycles for various department stores don't know how to use a quick release properly either.. I can't tell you how many I've seen on the floor ready to for the customer to take home but have the quick rlease wrong. Sometimes it's used like a one sided wing nut, other times it'spointing frontwards on the front wheel and other times it's pointed downward on the curb side of the front wheel where a hit on the curb can open the quick release fully. I guess if the assemlers of a salespeople of department store bicycles don't know how to use a quick release then oe ca't really blame the customer for not knowing either. Lawyer Lips then are second line of defense against incompetence.

Cheers

When we are in Phuket I'm the neighborhood bicycle guy and the kids
bring their broken bikes to me to fix. It is quite obvious that the
people that assemble these things in the shops store are not quite up
to scratch.

Now, we don't live in the "high rent" district and I'm fairly sure
that the base line, for many of the people in the neighborhood,
criteria for selecting a kid's bicycle is "cheap", but still... "The
brakes don't work", "No, the clamp bolt that holds the cable isn't
tight".
--
Cheers,

John B.

Or the brake blocks are so far from the rim that the brake lever hits the handlebar before the brake can engage strongly.

I wonder how many bicycling accidents are caused by improperly assembled department store bicycles?

Cheers

On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 02:31:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:48:54 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 01:13:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 1:46:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:39 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 11:28:55 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
One thing I've always thought missing from the legal system was some
sort of protection of the maker from those too stupid to use the
device properly.

For example:

If YOU aren't bright enough to properly secure the wheel then the
results of YOUR failure to properly secure the wheel is YOUR fault.

Or perhaps: "Purchase of this devise is limited to those who know how
to use it".

--
Cheers,

John B.

You'd be amazed at how many people who have a bicycle with a quick release wheel do NOT know how to use the quick release properly. Most use it like a long lever to crank the release until it's tight. I've stopped bicyclists who had their quick release pointed straight out from and inline with the axle.

When I worked as a sales person in bicycle shops I ALWAYS asked a customer buying a bicycle with a quick release if they'd used one before and then I'd get them to demonstrate that they knew how to use the quick release properly. So many times a custome who did it wrong would say after being shown the right way to use it, "Gee. No one ever showed my that before." I shudder to think about how many bicycles out there are being riddn with improperly secured front wheel quick releases. Those are the people for whom lawyer Lips might be a good thing.

If you know how to do it seems so simple that "everyone must know how
to do it".

I worked on a job training heavy equipment mechanics and one of the
students was trying to tension the tracks on a crawler crane -
probably a 2" or 3" nut - turning it backward. I said something like
"Heh! Don't you know how to tighten a bolt?" The student said that
"No, he didn't know." I asked him hadn't he even tightened the wheel
on his bicycle and he replied, "No, we weren't rich. We didn't have a
bicycle."

I must add that after that experience we added a class on nuts, bolts
and threads, to our curriculum :-)

On another note.

I saw a rather stupid bicyclist as I was riding home from a nearby city late last night. This dud was wearing black or dark clothing, was riding a dark colour bicycle and had neither lights nor reflectors. the stupid part? He was doing it on a narrow unlit country road which meant the he was just about invisible most ofthe time. I only saw him as I came up abreast of him as he was riding towards me. He blended nearly perfectly into the background.

Some people truly do not have any common sense.

Cheers
--
Cheers,

John B.

What's really scary is that many of those who assemble bicycles for various department stores don't know how to use a quick release properly either. I can't tell you how many I've seen on the floor ready to for the customer to take home but have the quick rlease wrong. Sometimes it's used like a one sided wing nut, other times it'spointing frontwards on the front wheel and other times it's pointed downward on the curb side of the front wheel where a hit on the curb can open the quick release fully. I guess if the assemlers of a salespeople of department store bicycles don't know how to use a quick release then oe ca't really blame the customer for not knowing either. Lawyer Lips then are second line of defense against incompetence.

Cheers

When we are in Phuket I'm the neighborhood bicycle guy and the kids
bring their broken bikes to me to fix. It is quite obvious that the
people that assemble these things in the shops store are not quite up
to scratch.

Now, we don't live in the "high rent" district and I'm fairly sure
that the base line, for many of the people in the neighborhood,
criteria for selecting a kid's bicycle is "cheap", but still... "The
brakes don't work", "No, the clamp bolt that holds the cable isn't
tight".
--
Cheers,

John B.

Or the brake blocks are so far from the rim that the brake lever hits the handlebar before the brake can engage strongly.

I wonder how many bicycling accidents are caused by improperly assembled department store bicycles?

Cheers

One thing the kids in my neighborhood are adapt at is dragging their
feet. It doesn't work well while barefooted but as long as you are
wearing sandals it is quite efficient. :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:28:51 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 02:31:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:48:54 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 01:13:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 1:46:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:39 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 11:28:55 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
One thing I've always thought missing from the legal system was some
sort of protection of the maker from those too stupid to use the
device properly.

For example:

If YOU aren't bright enough to properly secure the wheel then the
results of YOUR failure to properly secure the wheel is YOUR fault.

Or perhaps: "Purchase of this devise is limited to those who know how
to use it".

--
Cheers,

John B.

You'd be amazed at how many people who have a bicycle with a quick release wheel do NOT know how to use the quick release properly. Most use it like a long lever to crank the release until it's tight. I've stopped bicyclists who had their quick release pointed straight out from and inline with the axle.

When I worked as a sales person in bicycle shops I ALWAYS asked a customer buying a bicycle with a quick release if they'd used one before and then I'd get them to demonstrate that they knew how to use the quick release properly. So many times a custome who did it wrong would say after being shown the right way to use it, "Gee. No one ever showed my that before." I shudder to think about how many bicycles out there are being riddn with improperly secured front wheel quick releases. Those are the people for whom lawyer Lips might be a good thing.

If you know how to do it seems so simple that "everyone must know how
to do it".

I worked on a job training heavy equipment mechanics and one of the
students was trying to tension the tracks on a crawler crane -
probably a 2" or 3" nut - turning it backward. I said something like
"Heh! Don't you know how to tighten a bolt?" The student said that
"No, he didn't know." I asked him hadn't he even tightened the wheel
on his bicycle and he replied, "No, we weren't rich. We didn't have a
bicycle."

I must add that after that experience we added a class on nuts, bolts
and threads, to our curriculum :-)

On another note.

I saw a rather stupid bicyclist as I was riding home from a nearby city late last night. This dud was wearing black or dark clothing, was riding a dark colour bicycle and had neither lights nor reflectors. the stupid part? He was doing it on a narrow unlit country road which meant the he was just about invisible most ofthe time. I only saw him as I came up abreast of him as he was riding towards me. He blended nearly perfectly into the background.

Some people truly do not have any common sense.

Cheers
--
Cheers,

John B.

What's really scary is that many of those who assemble bicycles for various department stores don't know how to use a quick release properly either. I can't tell you how many I've seen on the floor ready to for the customer to take home but have the quick rlease wrong. Sometimes it's used like a one sided wing nut, other times it'spointing frontwards on the front wheel and other times it's pointed downward on the curb side of the front wheel where a hit on the curb can open the quick release fully. I guess if the assemlers of a salespeople of department store bicycles don't know how to use a quick release then oe ca't really blame the customer for not knowing either. Lawyer Lips then are second line of defense against incompetence.

Cheers

When we are in Phuket I'm the neighborhood bicycle guy and the kids
bring their broken bikes to me to fix. It is quite obvious that the
people that assemble these things in the shops store are not quite up
to scratch.

Now, we don't live in the "high rent" district and I'm fairly sure
that the base line, for many of the people in the neighborhood,
criteria for selecting a kid's bicycle is "cheap", but still... "The
brakes don't work", "No, the clamp bolt that holds the cable isn't
tight".
--
Cheers,

John B.

Or the brake blocks are so far from the rim that the brake lever hits the handlebar before the brake can engage strongly.

I wonder how many bicycling accidents are caused by improperly assembled department store bicycles?

Cheers

One thing the kids in my neighborhood are adapt at is dragging their
feet. It doesn't work well while barefooted but as long as you are
wearing sandals it is quite efficient. :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I wonder when it will occur to anyone that this conversation has more than run its course?

On 2017-08-21 17:53, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 07:18:53 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-20 18:02, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 07:21:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-20 00:19, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 07:07:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-18 22:19, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 12:01:08 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-17 19:10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2017 7:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-17 07:17, jbeattie wrote:


I should be like Joerg and complain about spending money on
replacements. My crappy ISIS BB didn't last a lifetime! ISIS was
the only thing worse than Octalink.


And here you guys razz me for being too critical of the quality of
bicycle parts. In the automotive world a manufacturer with such
failure rates would be our business prontissimo.

Imagine you were a car commuter and the equivalent happened with your
car. The drive shafts conks out in due course, you go through
universal joints like Kleenex, the steering wheel breaks, then the
transmission wears out, in less than two years the wheel bearings
start singing the blues. Oh, and then the car's chassis develops a big
fat crack at a structurally critical location. A car owner would be up
in arms about that. Yet with bicycles we are expected to find this
perfectly normal?

There are choices, Joerg. You (like most of us here) choose to buy sport
bikes - that is, bikes that compete in the market by trying to be fairly
lightweight, bikes that use "innovative" designs for components, bikes
designed for higher performance or off-road banging about.


Since when is a XC MTB a sport bike? Also, I have an SUV, a _sport_
utility vehicle. In over 20 years not even a bulb in a dome light has
ever dared to burn out.


Being a enthusiast I'm sure that you know that the so called "SUV" was
developed in order to evade the CAFE standards, and clean air
regulations, by building a vehicle based on a pickup truck chasses and
classified as a truck so as not having to comply with the fuel
consumption and emissions laws regarding passenger cars..


Where did you pick up that urban legend? My SUV (built on a truck
chassis) must pass the very same emissions standards as the Mitsubishi
Eclipse which has the same engine. Gets tested every two years just like
passenger cars. Same for all the other SUVs around here.


What part of "was developed" is it that you do not understand?


It's still wrong. One of the first SUVs ever developed was the Unimog
and it had to pass inspections just like other cars. That was "a tad"
before 1994.


Err, the first Unimog was built in 1946, not 1994, and Daimler-Benz
took over manufacture of the Unimog in 1951, not 1994.


I know.


However, in 1994 Mercedes Benz built twelve examples of the "Funmog"
with luxury extras such as leather seats and carpets. It was the most
expensive Unimog, with prices starting at DM150,000.

Perhaps you are confused.


No, it was just to illustrate that it's got nothing to do with your
tiers. I am not talking about leather-seated butt-heating luxury
vehicles but the utility version. They usually had the same engine as
one of the Mercedes passenger cars, same emissions. It is the same way
with my Mitsubishi SUV which has the same engine and emissions as a
Mitsubishi Eclipse passenger car.

I was trying to be polite.

You said " One of the first SUVs ever developed was the Unimog and it
had to pass inspections just like other cars".

And I said "Err, the first Unimog was built in 1946".

Would you care to tell us what the emissions, or fuel consumption
standards were, in the U.S., in 1946?


Obviously there weren't any standards enforced around WW-II. The same
applied to my first car (Citroen 2CV) which was conceived in 1939 and
then built for another half century. Fact is, when passenger cars came
under smog requirements so did SUVs. Regardlesss of when they were
designed. And this was well before the 90's as you had mentioned. I
happen to know for sure because I lived there and my cars had to pass
"Abgassonderuntersuchung" (the German version of smog test). Just like
they all had to learn to live with unleaded gas, regardless of whether
it was a car or an SUV.




Initially, way back when the SUV was invented the emissions standards
we

Tier 1:
Were phased in from 1994 to 1997, and were phased out in favor of the
national Tier 2 standard, from 2004 to 2009.

Tier I standards cover vehicles with a gross vehicular weight rating
(GVWR) below 8,500 pounds (3,856 kg) and are divided into five
categories: one for passenger cars, and four for light-duty trucks
(which include SUVs and minivans) divided up based on the vehicle
weight and cargo capacity.

"SUV" redirects here. For other uses, see SUV (disambiguation).

A sport utility vehicle or suburban utility vehicle (SUV) is a vehicle
classified as a light truck, but operated as a family vehicle

All from the Wiki


Yeah, and Wiki knows it all.

Well, given that anyone that knows something about the subject is free
to edit the Wiki entries I find that generally it is more accurate
then what a single author expounds about a subject that he/she/it so
obviously knows nothing about.


Now you seem to be confused.

Probably. Although not as badly as someone who argues about emissions
standards in 1946.


About emissions standards that cars designed back then had to fulfill
later. There is no difference between cars and SUV as you claimed, they
must pass the same tests. Maybe not in some far-off countries but in the
US, Germany and so on they do.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:55:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:28:51 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 02:31:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 4:48:54 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 01:13:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 1:46:39 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:58:39 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 11:28:55 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
One thing I've always thought missing from the legal system was some
sort of protection of the maker from those too stupid to use the
device properly.

For example:

If YOU aren't bright enough to properly secure the wheel then the
results of YOUR failure to properly secure the wheel is YOUR fault.

Or perhaps: "Purchase of this devise is limited to those who know how
to use it".

--
Cheers,

John B.

You'd be amazed at how many people who have a bicycle with a quick release wheel do NOT know how to use the quick release properly. Most use it like a long lever to crank the release until it's tight. I've stopped bicyclists who had their quick release pointed straight out from and inline with the axle.

When I worked as a sales person in bicycle shops I ALWAYS asked a customer buying a bicycle with a quick release if they'd used one before and then I'd get them to demonstrate that they knew how to use the quick release properly. So many times a custome who did it wrong would say after being shown the right way to use it, "Gee. No one ever showed my that before." I shudder to think about how many bicycles out there are being riddn with improperly secured front wheel quick releases. Those are the people for whom lawyer Lips might be a good thing.

If you know how to do it seems so simple that "everyone must know how
to do it".

I worked on a job training heavy equipment mechanics and one of the
students was trying to tension the tracks on a crawler crane -
probably a 2" or 3" nut - turning it backward. I said something like
"Heh! Don't you know how to tighten a bolt?" The student said that
"No, he didn't know." I asked him hadn't he even tightened the wheel
on his bicycle and he replied, "No, we weren't rich. We didn't have a
bicycle."

I must add that after that experience we added a class on nuts, bolts
and threads, to our curriculum :-)

On another note.

I saw a rather stupid bicyclist as I was riding home from a nearby city late last night. This dud was wearing black or dark clothing, was riding a dark colour bicycle and had neither lights nor reflectors. the stupid part? He was doing it on a narrow unlit country road which meant the he was just about invisible most ofthe time. I only saw him as I came up abreast of him as he was riding towards me. He blended nearly perfectly into the background.

Some people truly do not have any common sense.

Cheers
--
Cheers,

John B.

What's really scary is that many of those who assemble bicycles for various department stores don't know how to use a quick release properly either. I can't tell you how many I've seen on the floor ready to for the customer to take home but have the quick rlease wrong. Sometimes it's used like a one sided wing nut, other times it'spointing frontwards on the front wheel and other times it's pointed downward on the curb side of the front wheel where a hit on the curb can open the quick release fully. I guess if the assemlers of a salespeople of department store bicycles don't know how to use a quick release then oe ca't really blame the customer for not knowing either. Lawyer Lips then are second line of defense against incompetence.

Cheers

When we are in Phuket I'm the neighborhood bicycle guy and the kids
bring their broken bikes to me to fix. It is quite obvious that the
people that assemble these things in the shops store are not quite up
to scratch.

Now, we don't live in the "high rent" district and I'm fairly sure
that the base line, for many of the people in the neighborhood,
criteria for selecting a kid's bicycle is "cheap", but still... "The
brakes don't work", "No, the clamp bolt that holds the cable isn't
tight".
--
Cheers,

John B.

Or the brake blocks are so far from the rim that the brake lever hits the handlebar before the brake can engage strongly.

I wonder how many bicycling accidents are caused by improperly assembled department store bicycles?

Cheers

One thing the kids in my neighborhood are adapt at is dragging their
feet. It doesn't work well while barefooted but as long as you are
wearing sandals it is quite efficient. :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I wonder when it will occur to anyone that this conversation has more than run its course?

Not yet.... Why we haven't even gotten to the mountain lions :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.