Switching from Z-Link to Straddle Wire on Cantilever Brakes--Is therean issue I'm not realizing?

On 2015-12-06 13:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:01:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

To me this looks dangerous. At least put something underneath there that
catches the works in case the cable to the handle snaps. Definitely for
the front brake. Else ... snap ... tire snags the loop bracket ... stops
abruptly ... you go over the bar ... hospital bills ...

There's a note about the problem in the instructions:
http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tech/13204_PRO_Wide_Cable_Carrier_INST.pdf
WARNING: The Wide Cable Carrier is a cable carrier designed
for use with cantilever brake systems and a traditional straddle
cable. In the event of a cable failure with these systems, the
straddle wire may fall into your tire causing a sudden stop that
could lead to a crash causing serious injury. We STRONGLY RECOMMEND
the use of a reflector bracket that extends beyond and under the
straddle wire of the Wide Cable Carrier to prevent the straddle
cable from making contact with the tire in the event of brake cable
slippage or failure.

Of course, nobody reads the instructions. This has the look of a
plausible denial statement just in case someone does get injured,
sues, and claims that the manufacturer didn't warn them of the danger.

I suppose a fender or mud guard would be sufficient to prevent
disaster. Or, ride with non-knobby and smooth street tires, which
will not snag the cable.


On cheap bikes which usually come much more complete than expensive ones
they simply mount long brackets with reflectors there. Those can
conveniently be used to mount some real bike lights later.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2015-12-06 16:26, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 6, 2015 at 2:31:20 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 12/6/2015 2:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 6, 2015 at 10:01:39 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-12-05 17:37, sms wrote:
I have a bike with cantilever brakes using a z-link wire. The
mounting bracket for a porteur rack that goes to the brake
bolt hole on the fork interferes with this.

I was thinking of using a "Problem Solvers Wide Cable
Carrier"
http://problemsolversbike.com/products/wide_cable_carrier
and switching to a straddle wire (as shown in
http://problemsolversbike.com/files/...rBikeRumor.jpg
which is just what I want to do).

But the instructions on the Problem Solvers device say "It is
not compatible with V-brakes, one-piece "link wire"
cantilever brakes, or any other style of brake."

Is there some issue with switching from z-link to a straddle
wire on cantilever brakes?


To me this looks dangerous. At least put something underneath
there that catches the works in case the cable to the handle
snaps. Definitely for the front brake. Else ... snap ... tire
snags the loop bracket ... stops abruptly ... you go over the
bar ... hospital bills ...

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Just as a data point, people have been riding ordinary
cantilevers with straddle cables and carriers for, oh, ever. I
haven't seen a lot of carnage. I owned the exact Problem Solvers
piece that SMS is looking at, and I escaped with my life --
although I ultimately dumped the bike(s) (touring bike and a
tandem).

Another example of "safety inflation," I suppose.

There may have been one or more incidents where a gonzo mountain
biker broke his front brake cable, snagged his knobbies and
crashed. And he may have employed a lawyer to demand payment for
that crash.

I'm sure that's the case -- or more likely, the gonzo mountain biker
failed to adequately secure the anchor bolt on the cable carrier and
it slid down the brake cable, but who knows. Breaking a front brake
cable may have dire consequences without anything falling into the
wheel -- like not being able to stop the bike because of an
inadequate rear brake. I'm not a canti apologist, but after using
them for decades with no problems except that the sucked with STI, I
don't see them as particularly dangerous. And until recently,
everyone who raced CX had to use them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikepo...630/?ytcheck=1

That's just one pack at the Alpenrose Cross Crusade race. Not a disc
in sight.


They probably don't get into the real serious turf. After the first two
miles on my Friday ride none of the hardware on my MTB was recognizable
anymore. All had turned into large and small blobs of mud combined with
decomposed granite in there. Yet the disc brakes worked like they always
do and, most importantly, they always attacked instantly. That was very
different on my old rim brake MTB where I had scary situations in muddy
situations. Pulled left lever ... nothing, only a horrid grinding noise.
Two seconds later, pulled harder, still nothing. Depending on what's
beyond the upcoming curve that can turn your stomach into knots.

Also, the rims of that old MTB wore down real fast. On my disc brake MTB
they still look almost new despite having many more miles on them.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/6/2015 10:01 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-12-05 17:37, sms wrote:
I have a bike with cantilever brakes using a z-link wire. The mounting
bracket for a porteur rack that goes to the brake bolt hole on the fork
interferes with this.

I was thinking of using a "Problem Solvers Wide Cable Carrier"
http://problemsolversbike.com/products/wide_cable_carrier and
switching to a straddle wire (as shown in
http://problemsolversbike.com/files/...rBikeRumor.jpg which
is just what I want to do).

But the instructions on the Problem Solvers device say "It is not
compatible with V-brakes, one-piece “link wire� cantilever brakes, or
any other style of brake."

Is there some issue with switching from z-link to a straddle wire on
cantilever brakes?


To me this looks dangerous. At least put something underneath there that
catches the works in case the cable to the handle snaps. Definitely for
the front brake. Else ... snap ... tire snags the loop bracket ... stops
abruptly ... you go over the bar ... hospital bills ...

But isn't this the case with any yoke/straddle cable setup? For me, the
yoke would be about the same height as the Z-Link cable junction was.
The narrow, el-cheapo yoke, sits closer the tire because there is more
travel for the pads to engage.

On 12/7/2015 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-12-07 06:36, Radey Shouman wrote:

I remember, as a lad in a refinery, thinkng that cages around ladders
were "safety inflation". Then one day, somehow, I lost my grip, fell
gently against the cage, reflected a moment, and continued on my way
without saying a word.


A friend of ours lost his grip on a ladder a couple weeks ago and there
was no cage. He survived but smashed his shoulder so badly that a
lengthy hospital stay and most likely a lifetime of motion impairments
are the result.

I'll be up on the ladder today, stringing Christmas lights. (Or holiday
lights, for those who prefer that term.)

So, what safety measures should I adopt, and which ones can I skip? And
what criteria should I use for the decisions?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/6/2015 11:56 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Just as a data point, people have been riding ordinary cantilevers with straddle cables and carriers for, oh, ever. I haven't seen a lot of carnage. I owned the exact Problem Solvers piece that SMS is looking at, and I escaped with my life -- although I ultimately dumped the bike(s) (touring bike and a tandem).

Oh no, there is now going to be a "Danger Danger" post from our friend,
warning about the dangers of wide cantilever yokes.

On 12/7/2015 7:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

They probably don't get into the real serious turf. After the first two
miles on my Friday ride none of the hardware on my MTB was recognizable
anymore. All had turned into large and small blobs of mud combined with
decomposed granite in there. Yet the disc brakes worked like they always
do and, most importantly, they always attacked instantly. That was very
different on my old rim brake MTB where I had scary situations in muddy
situations. Pulled left lever ... nothing, only a horrid grinding noise.
Two seconds later, pulled harder, still nothing. Depending on what's
beyond the upcoming curve that can turn your stomach into knots.

Also, the rims of that old MTB wore down real fast. On my disc brake MTB
they still look almost new despite having many more miles on them.

We were out hiking in Fremont Older Open Space Preserve on Saturday.
It's a popular mountain biking area. I did not see a single mountain
bike with rim brakes. I'm sure you can buy faux mountain bikes at Target
and Walmart with rim brakes, but I wonder if bike shops sell any of
those anymore.

I was in Chain Reaction in Los Altos on Sunday, buying the yoke and
straddle cable, and they has a Trek road bike with disc brakes on
display at the entrance, with a sign "El Nino Special," and some
verbiage touting the efficacy of the disc brakes in wet conditions.

While I was there, someone brought in a new bike in a box to be
assembled. I wanted to wait to hear the amount they charge for such a
job, but it was taking too long. I would bet that it's at least $100.

On 12/7/2015 10:11 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/6/2015 8:58 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

The instructions are just stating the obvious -- you can't use a cable
carrier with a z-link.

Yeah, I just thought that maybe there was something about cantilever
brakes that were designed for Z link wires not working with straddle
cables, not just that you had to get a straddle cable in addition to the
yoke.

I went ahead and got a straddle cable and yoke at the LBS, and drilled a
hole in the bracket for the brake cable, and it works okay, but I
ordered a wider yolk because the narrow yoke can't really be low enough
to not hit the rack bracket but still give enough travel.

Drilled a hole??? Whoa! Careful! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/7/2015 10:19 AM, sms wrote:


On my wife's road bike, there was cantilever interference between the
rack seat stay braze-ons and the straddle cable, so the seat stay
braze-ons were unusable, and I had to buy one of those seat post clamps
that has rack mounts built into it.

It's possible to fabricate your own straddle cable. I've done that to
solve clearance problems on one bike.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/7/2015 11:13 AM, sms wrote:


We were out hiking in Fremont Older Open Space Preserve on Saturday.
It's a popular mountain biking area. I did not see a single mountain
bike with rim brakes. I'm sure you can buy faux mountain bikes at Target
and Walmart with rim brakes, but I wonder if bike shops sell any of
those anymore.

Of course it's foolish to ride a mountain bike without disc brakes! On
our forest hikes, we regularly come across the decomposed corpses of
mountain bikers from days of yore, the ones who rode the trails before
bike disc brakes were invented.

They were foolish. They got what they deserved.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2015-12-07 08:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2015 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-12-07 06:36, Radey Shouman wrote:

I remember, as a lad in a refinery, thinkng that cages around ladders
were "safety inflation". Then one day, somehow, I lost my grip, fell
gently against the cage, reflected a moment, and continued on my way
without saying a word.


A friend of ours lost his grip on a ladder a couple weeks ago and there
was no cage. He survived but smashed his shoulder so badly that a
lengthy hospital stay and most likely a lifetime of motion impairments
are the result.

I'll be up on the ladder today, stringing Christmas lights. (Or holiday
lights, for those who prefer that term.)

So, what safety measures should I adopt, and which ones can I skip? And
what criteria should I use for the decisions?


Go easy on the egg nog until after it's all hung :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/