Holiday Brew for the bike

On 12/14/2015 2:42 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the chainstays. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those chainstays broke.

On one tour, we stayed with a Warm Showers host that had done a
multi-thousand mile tour out west involving a lot of gravel and dirt
roads. He showed me his frame. The dirt and gravel had abraded holes
in the chainstays, next to the tire. He had those holes for half the
tour. Certainly not ideal, but it caused him no problems riding.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 10:47:01 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 2:42 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the chainstays.. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those chainstays broke.

On one tour, we stayed with a Warm Showers host that had done a
multi-thousand mile tour out west involving a lot of gravel and dirt
roads. He showed me his frame. The dirt and gravel had abraded holes
in the chainstays, next to the tire. He had those holes for half the
tour. Certainly not ideal, but it caused him no problems riding.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Aluminium, carbon fiber or steel?

Note that the bicycle I saw was a carbon fiber road racing bicycle.

Cheers

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 7:29:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 1:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/14/2015 10:19 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
: Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

:Sorry I don't I'm not a beer drinker.
:But I can tell you that any mention of a particular beer
:will engage a very long and sometimes passionate discussion
n the merits/deficiencies of another dozen products.

So nothing at all like bikes?




Good point.

Plenty of kibitzers are happy to explain that you are doing all wrong.

There are two kinds of people in this world: The people who get
everything done, and the people who tell them they're doing it wrong.

There are two kinds of people in the world: people who say there are two kinds of people in the world and everyone else.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 3:04:57 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 2:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 11:42:21 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 1:21:05 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 7:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I was at a last-night-of-Hanukkah party last night (I'm Episcopalian, one of the lost tribes) and met this guy: http://www.cascadebrewing.com/ Interesting character who brought some of his "sour beer." As it turns out, if you age beer, it gets sour due to lactobacillis (same thing that sours milk) -- and that most beers of yore were somewhat sour. It's not really to my liking and happy I don't live in days of yore.

Interestingly, he wanted to talk about bikes -- and how our microbreweries were getting swallowed up by large corporations. Ten Barrel was the latest to go, and speaking of Ten Barrel, their brewpub is right across the street from the Rogue brewpub on NW 14th. Get your fill of Dead Guy and then stagger across the street for some IPA.

I was at a wedding in Baltimore this weekend, also on the last night of
Hanukkah and a second or third cousin who I'd never met before wanted to
talk about bikes. He was all set to spend about $2500 on a Trek CF, as
his first road bike, and he didn't realize some of the issues he'd have
to deal with. He was not really interested in adding another $300 or so
for a CF compatible car rack. By the end of our conversation he was
going to buy either aluminum or titanium.

The beer conversation I had was with the bartender manning the beer and
wine table, who was Irish. They had no good beers available so I was
drinking vodka. And they had latkes for appetizers.

Short ceremony, open bar--a good wedding. And excellent food (which is
unusual for a Jewish wedding).

Carbon compatible car rack? What do you mean? All of my Yakima roof racks work with my CF bikes. Considering that they were designed by my next-door neighbor and good riding buddy, I have it on reliable authority that my fork mounts will not eat my CF fork, assuming I don't do something really stupid when loading the bike. In fact, I've been using fork-mount bike racks on CF forks for 20+ years. I also have a High Roller and a Holdup (hitch rack) that also work with CF and any other stable material capable of ownership without a license from the DOE/AEC.

Keep in mind that your cousin's aluminum or titanium frames will have CF forks. If your concern is about fork mounts, then it exists regardless of frame material.

It is true that CF can be damaged by impacts, so it is probably not a great material for a first-time buyer who may be ham-handed with tools or have bad balance or some other issue requiring a more robust material. I would not use a CF frame for my commuter because of the abuse it takes in the rack and in general. CF is more tender. That's a fact.

-- Jay Beattie.

Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the chainstays. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those chainstays broke.

Another dope for the SMS rogues gallery -- on multiple levels. I do hope she doesn't crash. The good news is that her stays can be fixed. http://www.ruckuscomp.com/ Watch the video! http://www.ruckuscomp.com/process
Some people should be issued a Flying Pigeon and then allowed to upgrade only after they have shown some competence -- and respect for the machine..

People got away with throwing their bicycles partway into the trunk, and
closing the lid on them, for many decades. Now they buy SUVs large
enough to carry the bikes inside since even on a proper rack they are
more subject to damage than a metal-framed bicycle.

Most bicycle shops selling high-end carbon fiber bicycles provide a
sheet with use and care instructions, i.e. one local shop has these
instructions printed on a single sheet of paper and they make you sigh a
copy as part of the sales process.

Congratulations on Your Purchase of a New Carbon Fiber Bicycle!

Please note, that unlike steel, aluminum, or titanium framed bicycles,
carbon fiber frames and components are not as robust and as tolerant to
abuse. Therefore, please keep the following in mind to maximize the
lifetime of your new bicycle:

1. Repairs to carbon fiber frames should only be performed by certified
mechanics.

2. Care for carbon fiber frames and components as you would care for
other fragile items.

3. Carbon fiber frames or components that have been damaged in a crash
should be replaced.

4. Carbon fiber frames, handlebars, forks, and seat posts should be
periodically x-rayed to look for hidden damage and defects.

5. Never use steel or aluminum clamps to mount accessories onto carbon
fiber frames, seat posts, or handlebars.

6. Use car carriers that do not touch the frame; look for "wheels-only"
type carriers. Do not put a carbon fiber bicycle into the trunk of your
vehicle.

7. Do not store your bicycle in a rack where other bicycles could
contact the frame, such as the bicycle racks on Caltrain.

8. The lifetime frame warranty on frames is for manufacturer's defects
only, it does not cover damage caused by the owner.

You clearly should not buy a CF bicycle. Also avoid glasses with plastic lenses, pure wool items and expensive turntable/tonearm combos.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 15/12/2015 10:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 3:04:57 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 2:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 11:42:21 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 1:21:05 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 7:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I was at a last-night-of-Hanukkah party last night (I'm Episcopalian, one of the lost tribes) and met this guy: http://www.cascadebrewing.com/ Interesting character who brought some of his "sour beer." As it turns out, if you age beer, it gets sour due to lactobacillis (same thing that sours milk) -- and that most beers of yore were somewhat sour. It's not really to my liking and happy I don't live in days of yore.

Interestingly, he wanted to talk about bikes -- and how our microbreweries were getting swallowed up by large corporations. Ten Barrel was the latest to go, and speaking of Ten Barrel, their brewpub is right across the street from the Rogue brewpub on NW 14th. Get your fill of Dead Guy and then stagger across the street for some IPA.

I was at a wedding in Baltimore this weekend, also on the last night of
Hanukkah and a second or third cousin who I'd never met before wanted to
talk about bikes. He was all set to spend about $2500 on a Trek CF, as
his first road bike, and he didn't realize some of the issues he'd have
to deal with. He was not really interested in adding another $300 or so
for a CF compatible car rack. By the end of our conversation he was
going to buy either aluminum or titanium.

The beer conversation I had was with the bartender manning the beer and
wine table, who was Irish. They had no good beers available so I was
drinking vodka. And they had latkes for appetizers.

Short ceremony, open bar--a good wedding. And excellent food (which is
unusual for a Jewish wedding).

Carbon compatible car rack? What do you mean? All of my Yakima roof racks work with my CF bikes. Considering that they were designed by my next-door neighbor and good riding buddy, I have it on reliable authority that my fork mounts will not eat my CF fork, assuming I don't do something really stupid when loading the bike. In fact, I've been using fork-mount bike racks on CF forks for 20+ years. I also have a High Roller and a Holdup (hitch rack) that also work with CF and any other stable material capable of ownership without a license from the DOE/AEC.

Keep in mind that your cousin's aluminum or titanium frames will have CF forks. If your concern is about fork mounts, then it exists regardless of frame material.

It is true that CF can be damaged by impacts, so it is probably not a great material for a first-time buyer who may be ham-handed with tools or have bad balance or some other issue requiring a more robust material. I would not use a CF frame for my commuter because of the abuse it takes in the rack and in general. CF is more tender. That's a fact.

-- Jay Beattie.

Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the chainstays. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those chainstays broke.

Another dope for the SMS rogues gallery -- on multiple levels. I do hope she doesn't crash. The good news is that her stays can be fixed. http://www.ruckuscomp.com/ Watch the video! http://www.ruckuscomp.com/process
Some people should be issued a Flying Pigeon and then allowed to upgrade only after they have shown some competence -- and respect for the machine.

People got away with throwing their bicycles partway into the trunk, and
closing the lid on them, for many decades. Now they buy SUVs large
enough to carry the bikes inside since even on a proper rack they are
more subject to damage than a metal-framed bicycle.

Most bicycle shops selling high-end carbon fiber bicycles provide a
sheet with use and care instructions, i.e. one local shop has these
instructions printed on a single sheet of paper and they make you sigh a
copy as part of the sales process.

Congratulations on Your Purchase of a New Carbon Fiber Bicycle!

Please note, that unlike steel, aluminum, or titanium framed bicycles,
carbon fiber frames and components are not as robust and as tolerant to
abuse. Therefore, please keep the following in mind to maximize the
lifetime of your new bicycle:

1. Repairs to carbon fiber frames should only be performed by certified
mechanics.

2. Care for carbon fiber frames and components as you would care for
other fragile items.

3. Carbon fiber frames or components that have been damaged in a crash
should be replaced.

4. Carbon fiber frames, handlebars, forks, and seat posts should be
periodically x-rayed to look for hidden damage and defects.

5. Never use steel or aluminum clamps to mount accessories onto carbon
fiber frames, seat posts, or handlebars.

6. Use car carriers that do not touch the frame; look for "wheels-only"
type carriers. Do not put a carbon fiber bicycle into the trunk of your
vehicle.

7. Do not store your bicycle in a rack where other bicycles could
contact the frame, such as the bicycle racks on Caltrain.

8. The lifetime frame warranty on frames is for manufacturer's defects
only, it does not cover damage caused by the owner.

You clearly should not buy a CF bicycle. Also avoid glasses with plastic lenses, pure wool items and expensive turntable/tonearm combos.

Maybe Joerg is right and life is more dangerous out there on the west
coast.

On 12/15/2015 10:27 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 7:29:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 1:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/14/2015 10:19 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
: Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

:Sorry I don't I'm not a beer drinker.
:But I can tell you that any mention of a particular beer
:will engage a very long and sometimes passionate discussion
n the merits/deficiencies of another dozen products.

So nothing at all like bikes?




Good point.

Plenty of kibitzers are happy to explain that you are doing all wrong.

There are two kinds of people in this world: The people who get
everything done, and the people who tell them they're doing it wrong.

There are two kinds of people in the world: people who say there are two kinds of people in the world and everyone else.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary
notation, and those who don't.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/15/2015 9:06 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 10:47:01 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 2:42 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the chainstays. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those chainstays broke.

On one tour, we stayed with a Warm Showers host that had done a
multi-thousand mile tour out west involving a lot of gravel and dirt
roads. He showed me his frame. The dirt and gravel had abraded holes
in the chainstays, next to the tire. He had those holes for half the
tour. Certainly not ideal, but it caused him no problems riding.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Aluminium, carbon fiber or steel?

Note that the bicycle I saw was a carbon fiber road racing bicycle.

That was an Aluminum Cannondale.

I'm not advocating gouging carbon fiber, nor carrying any fine bike by
having it hang out of a partially open car trunk (or boot). But it
might be interesting to track down that lady and see if the gouges ever
caused a problem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 12/15/2015 10:27 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 7:29:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 1:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/14/2015 10:19 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
: Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

:Sorry I don't I'm not a beer drinker.
:But I can tell you that any mention of a particular beer
:will engage a very long and sometimes passionate discussion
n the merits/deficiencies of another dozen products.

So nothing at all like bikes?




Good point.

Plenty of kibitzers are happy to explain that you are doing all wrong.

There are two kinds of people in this world: The people who get
everything done, and the people who tell them they're doing it wrong.

There are two kinds of people in the world: people who say there are two kinds of people in the world and everyone else.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary
notation, and those who don't.

There are 1 kind of people in the world, those who use bits
efficiently, and those who do not.

--
Joe Riel

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 11:19:52 AM UTC-8, JoeRiel wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 12/15/2015 10:27 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 7:29:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2015 1:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/14/2015 10:19 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
: Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

:Sorry I don't I'm not a beer drinker.
:But I can tell you that any mention of a particular beer
:will engage a very long and sometimes passionate discussion
n the merits/deficiencies of another dozen products.

So nothing at all like bikes?




Good point.

Plenty of kibitzers are happy to explain that you are doing all wrong.

There are two kinds of people in this world: The people who get
everything done, and the people who tell them they're doing it wrong.

There are two kinds of people in the world: people who say there are two kinds of people in the world and everyone else.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary
notation, and those who don't.

There are 1 kind of people in the world, those who use bits
efficiently, and those who do not.

There are 3 kinds of people in the world: those who can count... those who can't...


--
Joe Riel

On 12/15/2015 9:42 AM, Duane wrote:
On 15/12/2015 10:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 3:04:57 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 2:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 11:42:21 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 1:21:05 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/14/2015 7:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I was at a last-night-of-Hanukkah party last night (I'm
Episcopalian, one of the lost tribes) and met this guy:
http://www.cascadebrewing.com/ Interesting character who brought
some of his "sour beer." As it turns out, if you age beer, it
gets sour due to lactobacillis (same thing that sours milk) --
and that most beers of yore were somewhat sour. It's not really
to my liking and happy I don't live in days of yore.

Interestingly, he wanted to talk about bikes -- and how our
microbreweries were getting swallowed up by large corporations.
Ten Barrel was the latest to go, and speaking of Ten Barrel,
their brewpub is right across the street from the Rogue brewpub
on NW 14th. Get your fill of Dead Guy and then stagger across
the street for some IPA.

I was at a wedding in Baltimore this weekend, also on the last
night of
Hanukkah and a second or third cousin who I'd never met before
wanted to
talk about bikes. He was all set to spend about $2500 on a Trek
CF, as
his first road bike, and he didn't realize some of the issues
he'd have
to deal with. He was not really interested in adding another $300
or so
for a CF compatible car rack. By the end of our conversation he was
going to buy either aluminum or titanium.

The beer conversation I had was with the bartender manning the
beer and
wine table, who was Irish. They had no good beers available so I was
drinking vodka. And they had latkes for appetizers.

Short ceremony, open bar--a good wedding. And excellent food
(which is
unusual for a Jewish wedding).

Carbon compatible car rack? What do you mean? All of my Yakima
roof racks work with my CF bikes. Considering that they were
designed by my next-door neighbor and good riding buddy, I have it
on reliable authority that my fork mounts will not eat my CF fork,
assuming I don't do something really stupid when loading the bike.
In fact, I've been using fork-mount bike racks on CF forks for 20+
years. I also have a High Roller and a Holdup (hitch rack) that
also work with CF and any other stable material capable of
ownership without a license from the DOE/AEC.

Keep in mind that your cousin's aluminum or titanium frames will
have CF forks. If your concern is about fork mounts, then it
exists regardless of frame material.

It is true that CF can be damaged by impacts, so it is probably
not a great material for a first-time buyer who may be ham-handed
with tools or have bad balance or some other issue requiring a
more robust material. I would not use a CF frame for my commuter
because of the abuse it takes in the rack and in general. CF is
more tender. That's a fact.

-- Jay Beattie.

Saw a young lsdy n s rail-trail (crushed limestone surface)riding a
really nice carbon fiber road bike that had very deep gouges in the
chainstays. She said they were caused by the trunk lid hitting the
frame when she was driving the car with the bike partway out of the
trunk. I wondered how long she'd have the bike before those
chainstays broke.

Another dope for the SMS rogues gallery -- on multiple levels. I do
hope she doesn't crash. The good news is that her stays can be
fixed. http://www.ruckuscomp.com/ Watch the video!
http://www.ruckuscomp.com/process
Some people should be issued a Flying Pigeon and then allowed to
upgrade only after they have shown some competence -- and respect
for the machine.

People got away with throwing their bicycles partway into the trunk, and
closing the lid on them, for many decades. Now they buy SUVs large
enough to carry the bikes inside since even on a proper rack they are
more subject to damage than a metal-framed bicycle.

Most bicycle shops selling high-end carbon fiber bicycles provide a
sheet with use and care instructions, i.e. one local shop has these
instructions printed on a single sheet of paper and they make you sigh a
copy as part of the sales process.

Congratulations on Your Purchase of a New Carbon Fiber Bicycle!

Please note, that unlike steel, aluminum, or titanium framed bicycles,
carbon fiber frames and components are not as robust and as tolerant to
abuse. Therefore, please keep the following in mind to maximize the
lifetime of your new bicycle:

1. Repairs to carbon fiber frames should only be performed by certified
mechanics.

2. Care for carbon fiber frames and components as you would care for
other fragile items.

3. Carbon fiber frames or components that have been damaged in a crash
should be replaced.

4. Carbon fiber frames, handlebars, forks, and seat posts should be
periodically x-rayed to look for hidden damage and defects.

5. Never use steel or aluminum clamps to mount accessories onto carbon
fiber frames, seat posts, or handlebars.

6. Use car carriers that do not touch the frame; look for "wheels-only"
type carriers. Do not put a carbon fiber bicycle into the trunk of your
vehicle.

7. Do not store your bicycle in a rack where other bicycles could
contact the frame, such as the bicycle racks on Caltrain.

8. The lifetime frame warranty on frames is for manufacturer's defects
only, it does not cover damage caused by the owner.

You clearly should not buy a CF bicycle. Also avoid glasses with
plastic lenses, pure wool items and expensive turntable/tonearm combos.

Maybe Joerg is right and life is more dangerous out there on the west
coast.

I think that it's good that bicycle shops are smart enough to encourage
proper care of CF bicycles.