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#1
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Rubber cement question
We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out
over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the group I bought a large can a while ago. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg Works well. Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop in this little container is for use at one event only. Reason is that I sometimes help other riders and then the tube will dry out in no time. Or is already questionable during the patch job on the road. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#2
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Rubber cement question
On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the group I bought a large can a while ago. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg Works well. So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a channel-lock, as I recall). Since then I've bought the tiny tubes in cheapo patch kits at the local department store. True, even the unopened ones /can/ be dry, but generally they last longer when unopened. I save up punctured inner tubes until I have 6-8, then open a tube of glue & patch 'em all while the glue is fresh. Maybe if you put some sort of grease/sealant on the can threads, it will last longer. Good luck. Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Good question. I'd suggest crimped metal tubes. Mark J. |
#3
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Rubber cement question
On 2017-06-19 16:31, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote: We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the group I bought a large can a while ago. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg Works well. So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a channel-lock, as I recall). Since then I've bought the tiny tubes in cheapo patch kits at the local department store. True, even the unopened ones /can/ be dry, but generally they last longer when unopened. I save up punctured inner tubes until I have 6-8, then open a tube of glue & patch 'em all while the glue is fresh. Maybe if you put some sort of grease/sealant on the can threads, it will last longer. Good luck. What also helps is what we do with paint cans, turning them upside down for a while and then back upright. We have used paint that we bought more than a decade ago and it was still good enough. Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Good question. I'd suggest crimped metal tubes. If they seal enough that could work, provided the forces needed to uncrimp them in the field are reasonable. Not a problem if a rock is required, I use rocks a lot as makeshift hammers. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#4
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Rubber cement question
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote: Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop in this little container is for use at one event only. Aluminum pill bottles perhaps? https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin so that it will not voltatize. I suspect the same can be done for rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive, such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place. The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has a nice o-ring to seal the cap. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#5
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Rubber cement question
Jeff Liebermann writes:
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg wrote: Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop in this little container is for use at one event only. Aluminum pill bottles perhaps? https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin so that it will not voltatize. That does not work. Not even a little bit. The equilibrium partial pressure of nitroglycerine (or anything) in the vapor space of the bottle is, to a very good approximation, independent of the total pressure of any inert gas. It does depend on temperature and on the mole fraction of nitroglycerine in any liquid solution it might be a part of. What does work is to seal the bottle, so that nitroglycerine cannot escape, and to minimize the size of the vapor space, so that the total amount vaporized is small. Pressurizing with nitroglycerine would work, but there are practical problems. I suspect the same can be done for rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive, such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place. The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has a nice o-ring to seal the cap. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement. -- |
#6
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Rubber cement question
On decanting the solvent escapes
https://m.lowes.com/pd/DAP-Weldwood-...Cement/3006177 When immediately closing cover, the brush passing thru a hole in the grocery bag thread gasket you f ashioned, twist ap on snug over the gasket Store in cool area. Weldwood lasts, tubes donot |
#7
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Rubber cement question
Mark J. wrote:
:On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote: : We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out : over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the : group I bought a large can a while ago. : : https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg : : Works well. :So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a :while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a :channel-lock, as I recall). The bottle in my file cabinet at work has lasted at least five years, probably six. I simply put the lid on when I'm not using it. It's an american brand, purchased at an auto parts store. Maybe americans understand bottle sealing better than the germans. In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept somehwerer ike a seat wedge, where it's well heated. -- sig 78 |
#8
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Rubber cement question
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:45:49 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: 5AM. Can't sleep (mouse in house). Might as well go online. Jeff Liebermann writes: On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg wrote: Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop in this little container is for use at one event only. Aluminum pill bottles perhaps? https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin so that it will not voltatize. That does not work. Not even a little bit. The equilibrium partial pressure of nitroglycerine (or anything) in the vapor space of the bottle is, to a very good approximation, independent of the total pressure of any inert gas. It does depend on temperature and on the mole fraction of nitroglycerine in any liquid solution it might be a part of. Thanks. I was afraid that it might not work, which is why I added the disclaimer. If you're right, which is likely the case, then you saved me from a wasted experiment. However, you gave me an idea. Can I reduce the air space volume by filling it with an inert liquid to reduce evaporation? For nitrostat pills, I have no idea what might work. For rubber cement, I would guess(tm) that water might work if the solvents used (acetone, hexane, heptane or toluene) are immiscible in water. Acetone fails, but the others might be possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_water-miscible_solvents What does work is to seal the bottle, so that nitroglycerine cannot escape, and to minimize the size of the vapor space, so that the total amount vaporized is small. Pressurizing with nitroglycerine would work, but there are practical problems. Some kind of flexible membrane between the pills or rubber cement and the air space might work. Increasing the air pressure in the air space between the pills or rubber cement above atmospheric should minimize the volume, keep everything in place, and compensate for minor changes in the volume of the contents. A butyl, silicone, or neoprene rubber bladder would be my first guess. One possible glitch is that opening the bottle might eject the contents, but that could be useful for applying the rubber cement (but rather sloppy for dispensing pills). I suspect the same can be done for rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive, such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place. The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has a nice o-ring to seal the cap. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement. I still think aluminum pill bottles have their possibilities for storing small quantities of rubber cement. Another might be empty gel pill capsules such as these: https://www.capsuline.com/empty-capsule-size-chart/ These are easy enough to load with powders, but rubber cement might be a challenge. Some kind of syringe affair might work, but could be rather messy. To prevent evaporation along the seal line, some kind of lacquer or varnish dip might work. Probably too much work, so maybe just some glass vials: https://www.premiumvials.com/clear-vials/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#9
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Rubber cement question
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:12:04 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote: In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept somehwerer like a seat wedge, where it's well heated. I keep both automobile and bicycle tire patch kits in my car. It gets rather warm in the car at times. Both kits include those little tubes of rubber cement. At best, they last a few months. I tore apart one that was in my rather hot car for over one year. It was almost completely empty with only a tiny rubber-like blob at the bottom of the tube. It had never been opened and was not punctured or leaking. At first, I thought it might be defective from the factory, but then I found another tube with the same problem. I've gone no further with this investigation. If it's heat that's causing the cement to harden, then storing it in a car or riding around with it on a bicycle, are not going to work. Except for it being banned in California for using MEK and toluene as the solvent, I wonder if this stuff might work better? https://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-manufacturer/3m/adhesives/solvent-based/3m-scotch-weld-1300-neoprene-rubber-and-gasket-adhesive-yellow-5-oz-tube/ Bicycle tires are mostly butyl rubber. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#10
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Rubber cement question
On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 5:58:34 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:12:04 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept somehwerer like a seat wedge, where it's well heated. I keep both automobile and bicycle tire patch kits in my car. It gets rather warm in the car at times. Both kits include those little tubes of rubber cement. At best, they last a few months. I tore apart one that was in my rather hot car for over one year. It was almost completely empty with only a tiny rubber-like blob at the bottom of the tube. It had never been opened and was not punctured or leaking. At first, I thought it might be defective from the factory, but then I found another tube with the same problem. I've gone no further with this investigation. If it's heat that's causing the cement to harden, then storing it in a car or riding around with it on a bicycle, are not going to work. Except for it being banned in California for using MEK and toluene as the solvent, I wonder if this stuff might work better? https://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-manufacturer/3m/adhesives/solvent-based/3m-scotch-weld-1300-neoprene-rubber-and-gasket-adhesive-yellow-5-oz-tube/ Bicycle tires are mostly butyl rubber. What ever the solvent is, that is the carrier, doesn't "dry up". Eventually it leaks out through the crimped end of the tube. I haven't had a problem with glass bottles though I would imagine in enough heat the solvent could gasify enough to leak out of just about everything. Just how good is the cap seal? The larger the tube usually the smaller the ratio of solvent and the longer it will last. I ordered an entire load of patch kits from ProPatch a couple of years ago to sell cheaply to the group I ride with. No one bought one kit at a buck. The patch kits are small. So far they do not appear to dry up meaning that the crimped section of tube is managed in such a manner that it doesn't leak. Once opened the glue appears to dry up as rapidly as any other Rema glue.. Also there is the consideration that glueless patches do exist but I've only used them enough to gain confidence that they indeed do work though you have to be very careful in the tube preparation. |
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