What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:17:49 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want.. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole.. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.

You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.

I noticed that too. Annoying. Everytime you change a flat you hear the tire bead pop into place. Or not...

Lou

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 2:03:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:17:49 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.

You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.

I noticed that too. Annoying. Everytime you change a flat you hear the tire bead pop into place. Or not...

Lou

I'm surprised that those who want to avoid flats don't just use foam filled tires instead of these or other Slime-like concoctions.

Cheers

On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 23:58:12 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 2:03:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:17:49 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.

You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.

I noticed that too. Annoying. Everytime you change a flat you hear the tire bead pop into place. Or not...

Lou

I'm surprised that those who want to avoid flats don't just use foam filled tires instead of these or other Slime-like concoctions.

Cheers

See https://tinyurl.com/yctlymft



Cheers,
John B.

On 1/12/19 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/12/2019 12:11 AM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they
solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing
riders?

Part of the point is "churning." Bikes and bike parts are a super-mature
industry, and bikes and their products last decades. (My favorite bike
is from 1986.) So the industry tries to come up with new ideas every
year, just to entice you to buy _something_.

Going back to the 1970s, it was "Ten speeds!" then "Touring bikes!" then
"Aluminum!" then "Mountain bikes!" ... and on and on, with front
suspension, full suspension, 6 speeds, 7 speeds, 8 & 9 & 10 & 11 speeds,
carbon fiber, electronic shifting etc. It goes on forever.

Currently it's disc brakes, tubeless tires and "gravel bikes." For
almost everyone who rides a bicycle, the improvements (if any) are
almost undetectable. We are deeply into diminishing returns, no matter
what miracles the supposed connoisseurs claim.

I take issue. Indexed ergo shifters vs downtube friction shifters, LED
LiPo lights vs dodgy glow worms, and this is going to cause trouble,
yes, hydraulic discs vs cable rim brakes.

I see what you are saying, but people don't *buy* crap. They buy it
because it's [marginally] better than what the had. Eg. I could buy
this mountain bike

https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadma...Black/55376950

Or I could buy this;

https://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk...8-touring-bike

By your argument, the first is a clear winner, because it's every bit as
good as the latter and 600 bucks cheaper!

Just ride.

Not wrong :-)

On 1/12/19 11:48 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:51:50 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/12/2019 9:45 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/12/19 4:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2019 11:11 PM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What
problem do they
solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for
non-racing
riders?


The Ethos of Sales:

"The crap we sold you last year is no good. Here's the
new one."

You wouldn't really be driving a Model-T rather than a
7-series would you?

All my cars are 1965.
No safety, no chinese electronics, no EPA, no nuffin'.

Model T are a real handful but I would certainly choose a
Model A over a BMW7 any day.

Certainly the Model A's have held their value well, :-)
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...e/ford/model-a

I'm surprised they are actually that cheap compared to said 7 series!

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 4:57:35 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 23:58:12 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
Snipped
I'm surprised that those who want to avoid flats don't just use foam filled tires instead of these or other Slime-like concoctions.

Cheers

See https://tinyurl.com/yctlymft



Cheers,
John B.

3.5 Bar or 50.76 psi. Suitable for rims 19 to 21 milimeters. Tire is 40-622 or 28" x 1 & 5/8 x 1 & 3/4.

Can be mounted by Scwalbe trained mechanics only and with special tools.

"Exclusively for specialist retailers

The Schwalbe Airless System is to be mounted with a special assembly tool. The installation time is not much longer per tyre as usual. Installation is only possible for bicycle dealers and only by bicycle technicians, who are certified after a Schwalbe training. This training will start in May 2018, initially only in the Netherlands and Germany."

Cost is 84.90 Euros $97.38 USD.

So it's no good for regular road bikes or MTBs and you have to send your wheels to either Germany or the Netherlands to get your tires mounted. Not for me.

Cheers

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:35:05 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/12/19 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/12/2019 12:11 AM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they
solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing
riders?

Part of the point is "churning." Bikes and bike parts are a super-mature
industry, and bikes and their products last decades. (My favorite bike
is from 1986.) So the industry tries to come up with new ideas every
year, just to entice you to buy _something_.

Going back to the 1970s, it was "Ten speeds!" then "Touring bikes!" then
"Aluminum!" then "Mountain bikes!" ... and on and on, with front
suspension, full suspension, 6 speeds, 7 speeds, 8 & 9 & 10 & 11 speeds,
carbon fiber, electronic shifting etc. It goes on forever.

Currently it's disc brakes, tubeless tires and "gravel bikes." For
almost everyone who rides a bicycle, the improvements (if any) are
almost undetectable. We are deeply into diminishing returns, no matter
what miracles the supposed connoisseurs claim.

I take issue. Indexed ergo shifters vs downtube friction shifters, LED
LiPo lights vs dodgy glow worms, and this is going to cause trouble,
yes, hydraulic discs vs cable rim brakes.

I see what you are saying, but people don't *buy* crap. They buy it
because it's [marginally] better than what the had. Eg. I could buy
this mountain bike

https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadma...Black/55376950

Or I could buy this;

https://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk...8-touring-bike

By your argument, the first is a clear winner, because it's every bit as
good as the latter and 600 bucks cheaper!

Just ride.

Not wrong :-)

649.99 pounds is $835.37 USD thus the difference between the Dawes and the $89.00 Wal Mart bike is $746.37 USD not $600.00 USD. Also for the price of that Dawes you could by NINE of those Wal Mart bikes and still have some money left over. VBEG

Cheers

On 1/13/19 2:18 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:35:05 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/12/19 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/12/2019 12:11 AM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do
they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for
non-racing riders?

Part of the point is "churning." Bikes and bike parts are a
super-mature industry, and bikes and their products last decades.
(My favorite bike is from 1986.) So the industry tries to come up
with new ideas every year, just to entice you to buy
_something_.

Going back to the 1970s, it was "Ten speeds!" then "Touring
bikes!" then "Aluminum!" then "Mountain bikes!" ... and on and
on, with front suspension, full suspension, 6 speeds, 7 speeds, 8
& 9 & 10 & 11 speeds, carbon fiber, electronic shifting etc. It
goes on forever.

Currently it's disc brakes, tubeless tires and "gravel bikes."
For almost everyone who rides a bicycle, the improvements (if
any) are almost undetectable. We are deeply into diminishing
returns, no matter what miracles the supposed connoisseurs
claim.

I take issue. Indexed ergo shifters vs downtube friction shifters,
LED LiPo lights vs dodgy glow worms, and this is going to cause
trouble, yes, hydraulic discs vs cable rim brakes.

I see what you are saying, but people don't *buy* crap. They buy
it because it's [marginally] better than what the had. Eg. I could
buy this mountain bike

https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadma...Black/55376950



Or I could buy this;

https://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk...8-touring-bike



By your argument, the first is a clear winner, because it's every bit as
good as the latter and 600 bucks cheaper!

Just ride.

Not wrong :-)

649.99 pounds is $835.37 USD thus the difference between the Dawes
and the $89.00 Wal Mart bike is $746.37 USD not $600.00 USD. Also for
the price of that Dawes you could by NINE of those Wal Mart bikes and
still have some money left over. VBEG

Yesyes, but no matter how much **** you pile up, it don't turn to gold!

On 1/12/2019 5:01 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:17:47 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.

You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tubular;s are the solution. Can be changed with no tools at all. :-)


Works for me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/13/2019 1:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 2:03:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:17:49 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.

You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.

I noticed that too. Annoying. Everytime you change a flat you hear the tire bead pop into place. Or not...

Lou

I'm surprised that those who want to avoid flats don't just use foam filled tires instead of these or other Slime-like concoctions.

Cheers


You could argue about 60g of inner tube vs 60g of goop, and
people do, but I have to assume you have never ridden a foam
or urethane tire.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971