#41
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Gels vs Gatorade
Andy Coggan wrote:
Seriously, sucrose (common table sugar) is as good, if not better than, any other source of carbohydrate when used in a sports drink. The only possible advantage to maltodextrin is that, for a given concentration, it isn't as sweet, which some people may find more palatable. Andy Coggan (who cut his eye-teeth studying this stuff) Andy, Thanks for chiming in, your expert opinion is always refreshing. I'm sure it would come as no surprise to you that some disagree with your statement about the benefits of sugar in sports drinks. A sample: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com |
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#42
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
Andy Coggan wrote: Seriously, sucrose (common table sugar) is as good, if not better than, any other source of carbohydrate when used in a sports drink. The only possible advantage to maltodextrin is that, for a given concentration, it isn't as sweet, which some people may find more palatable. Andy Coggan (who cut his eye-teeth studying this stuff) Andy, Thanks for chiming in, your expert opinion is always refreshing. I'm sure it would come as no surprise to you that some disagree with your statement about the benefits of sugar in sports drinks. A sample: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? They are certainly at odds with basic biochemistry since the body's energy system runs on glucose which is absorbed very readily by the bloodstream directly through the intestinal lining. More complex carbohydrates are first converted to glucose before they used by the body cells for energy production. Substituting complex carbohydrates for glucose would therefore slow down the process and make it more difficult for an athlete to digest a sufficient number of calories. A simplified overview of the digestive process is given at: http://home.howstuffworks.com/food2.htm The main problem with consumption of mono- and disaccharides is that they enter the bloodstream too quickly therefore leading to jumps in the blood sugar levels and consequent variations in the insulin levels in response. But an exercising athlete who is consuming an energy drink at frequent intervals would be unlikely to experience this problem. |
#43
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
Andy Coggan wrote: Seriously, sucrose (common table sugar) is as good, if not better than, any other source of carbohydrate when used in a sports drink. The only possible advantage to maltodextrin is that, for a given concentration, it isn't as sweet, which some people may find more palatable. Andy Coggan (who cut his eye-teeth studying this stuff) Andy, Thanks for chiming in, your expert opinion is always refreshing. I'm sure it would come as no surprise to you that some disagree with your statement about the benefits of sugar in sports drinks. A sample: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? They are certainly at odds with basic biochemistry since the body's energy system runs on glucose which is absorbed very readily by the bloodstream directly through the intestinal lining. More complex carbohydrates are first converted to glucose before they used by the body cells for energy production. Substituting complex carbohydrates for glucose would therefore slow down the process and make it more difficult for an athlete to digest a sufficient number of calories. A simplified overview of the digestive process is given at: http://home.howstuffworks.com/food2.htm The main problem with consumption of mono- and disaccharides is that they enter the bloodstream too quickly therefore leading to jumps in the blood sugar levels and consequent variations in the insulin levels in response. But an exercising athlete who is consuming an energy drink at frequent intervals would be unlikely to experience this problem. |
#44
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Gels vs Gatorade
In article ,
Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? Yes. From the same document: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract. This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted...With a simple sugar drink, you're left with three bad choices. You can drink a 6-8% solution, but you'll get too few calories. You can drink a lot of a 6-8% solution to get adequate calories, but you'll overfill on fluid, or you can make a concentrated drink to get enough calories, but then you'll get poor absorption. In any case, you're done in. Simple sugar drinks just don't cut it for the endurance athlete." -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#45
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Gels vs Gatorade
In article ,
Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? Yes. From the same document: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract. This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted...With a simple sugar drink, you're left with three bad choices. You can drink a 6-8% solution, but you'll get too few calories. You can drink a lot of a 6-8% solution to get adequate calories, but you'll overfill on fluid, or you can make a concentrated drink to get enough calories, but then you'll get poor absorption. In any case, you're done in. Simple sugar drinks just don't cut it for the endurance athlete." -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#46
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
In article , Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? Yes. From the same document: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides (simple single sugars like glucose and fructose). From http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...b_sugars.html: "Particularly important dietary carbohydrates include starch and disaccharides such as lactose and sucrose. None of these molecules can be absorbed for the simple reason that they cannot cross cell membranes unaided and, unlike the situation for monosaccharides, there are no transporters to carry them across. ... Polysaccharides and disaccharides must be digested to monosaccharides prior to absorption" "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Instead, the sugar passes quickly to the small intestine and is absorbed directly through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the sugar is sucrose (a disaccharide) then it is first broken down by enzymes to its components: glucose and fructose, but that's a very rapid process compared to the necessary breakdown of starches and other complex carbohydrates. ...With a simple sugar drink, you're left with three bad choices. You can drink a 6-8% solution, but you'll get too few calories. You can drink a lot of a 6-8% solution to get adequate calories, but you'll overfill on fluid, or you can make a concentrated drink to get enough calories, but then you'll get poor absorption. In any case, you're done in. Simple sugar drinks just don't cut it for the endurance athlete." So their claim is that given two possible processes: 1) monosaccharide - absorption by bloodstream - ATP production in body cells; and 2) polysaccharide - breakdown by enzymes to monosaccharides - absorption by bloodstream - ATP production in body cells; that somehow 2) is faster and more efficient even though it's the same as 1) but with the additional first step. Looks like magic to me. The only explanation I can see is what you mentioned previously: "this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products." |
#47
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
In article , Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Fructose, sucrose, glucose and other simple sugars...absorb poorly, cause wild energy fluctuations, and require excess water consumption...Complex carbohydrates...are the wisest choice for endurance athletes, as they allow your digestive system to rapidly and efficienlty process a greater volume of calories, providing steady energy." - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Do they give any justification for those statements? Yes. From the same document: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides (simple single sugars like glucose and fructose). From http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...b_sugars.html: "Particularly important dietary carbohydrates include starch and disaccharides such as lactose and sucrose. None of these molecules can be absorbed for the simple reason that they cannot cross cell membranes unaided and, unlike the situation for monosaccharides, there are no transporters to carry them across. ... Polysaccharides and disaccharides must be digested to monosaccharides prior to absorption" "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Instead, the sugar passes quickly to the small intestine and is absorbed directly through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the sugar is sucrose (a disaccharide) then it is first broken down by enzymes to its components: glucose and fructose, but that's a very rapid process compared to the necessary breakdown of starches and other complex carbohydrates. ...With a simple sugar drink, you're left with three bad choices. You can drink a 6-8% solution, but you'll get too few calories. You can drink a lot of a 6-8% solution to get adequate calories, but you'll overfill on fluid, or you can make a concentrated drink to get enough calories, but then you'll get poor absorption. In any case, you're done in. Simple sugar drinks just don't cut it for the endurance athlete." So their claim is that given two possible processes: 1) monosaccharide - absorption by bloodstream - ATP production in body cells; and 2) polysaccharide - breakdown by enzymes to monosaccharides - absorption by bloodstream - ATP production in body cells; that somehow 2) is faster and more efficient even though it's the same as 1) but with the additional first step. Looks like magic to me. The only explanation I can see is what you mentioned previously: "this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products." |
#48
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Gels vs Gatorade
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:06:51 -0700, Terry Morse
wrote: - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. You were arguning with me based on an advertisement? That's funny. It's even funnier to argue with Coggan based on that. Prediction: he's going to tell you to look it up in pubmed or another online database of real science. JT |
#49
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Gels vs Gatorade
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:06:51 -0700, Terry Morse
wrote: - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. You were arguning with me based on an advertisement? That's funny. It's even funnier to argue with Coggan based on that. Prediction: he's going to tell you to look it up in pubmed or another online database of real science. JT |
#50
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Gels vs Gatorade
"Terry Morse" wrote
Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. I think you answered your own question. |
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