Gels vs Gatorade

I know it makes me look like a petty asshole, but I've got to repost
this, which was written earlier this this thread by someone else:

"Everything I've described is the state of the art when it comes to
nutrition for the endurance athlete. Dozens of studies have looked
at these issues, in the lab and out. What you have described is
nonsense."

JT

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

I made an argument based on succesful practice and you denounced it by
claiming the people with that experience don't know about nutrition.
It seems you have two different standards depending on which side of
the discussion the evidence is on.

Welcome to the subtle art of argument. I have no skin in this game,
and I'm ready to be convinced by evidence--one way or the other. The
"that's what successful athletes use"(*) argument was pretty weak,
for obvious reasons. So I shot it down.

(*) same argument used in years past to justify tied-and-soldered
spokes, ankling, etc.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

I made an argument based on succesful practice and you denounced it by
claiming the people with that experience don't know about nutrition.
It seems you have two different standards depending on which side of
the discussion the evidence is on.

Welcome to the subtle art of argument. I have no skin in this game,
and I'm ready to be convinced by evidence--one way or the other. The
"that's what successful athletes use"(*) argument was pretty weak,
for obvious reasons. So I shot it down.

(*) same argument used in years past to justify tied-and-soldered
spokes, ankling, etc.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

Thank you. This is very helpful and, I think, supports my assertion
that strong sugar solutions like Extran can be useful if the rider is
drinking a lot. Something Morse denouncd.

A point I will concede: concentrated sugar solutions will be
digested, but at the expense of reduced water absorbtion.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

Thank you. This is very helpful and, I think, supports my assertion
that strong sugar solutions like Extran can be useful if the rider is
drinking a lot. Something Morse denouncd.

A point I will concede: concentrated sugar solutions will be
digested, but at the expense of reduced water absorbtion.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

I know it makes me look like a petty asshole, but I've got to repost
this, which was written earlier this this thread by someone else:

"Everything I've described is the state of the art when it comes to
nutrition for the endurance athlete. Dozens of studies have looked
at these issues, in the lab and out. What you have described is
nonsense."

That someone else was yours truly, thank you. Got the discussion
going, didn't it? Now we all know more than we did before. What John
described wasn't in the end nonsense, he just couldn't defend it
very well.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

I know it makes me look like a petty asshole, but I've got to repost
this, which was written earlier this this thread by someone else:

"Everything I've described is the state of the art when it comes to
nutrition for the endurance athlete. Dozens of studies have looked
at these issues, in the lab and out. What you have described is
nonsense."

That someone else was yours truly, thank you. Got the discussion
going, didn't it? Now we all know more than we did before. What John
described wasn't in the end nonsense, he just couldn't defend it
very well.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:


I made an argument based on succesful practice and you denounced it by
claiming the people with that experience don't know about nutrition.
It seems you have two different standards depending on which side of
the discussion the evidence is on.


Welcome to the subtle art of argument. I have no skin in this game,
and I'm ready to be convinced by evidence--one way or the other. The
"that's what successful athletes use"(*) argument was pretty weak,
for obvious reasons. So I shot it down.

(*) same argument used in years past to justify tied-and-soldered
spokes, ankling, etc.

A major difference is that your claim was that use of an energy drink
with glucose would be detrimental to the performance of endurance
athletes. Extensive use of such drinks by successful endurance athletes
is valid evidence against such a claim, albeit not a proof.
OTOH, in the case of tied-and-soldered spokes, I don't remember anyone
claiming that it would hurt performance (other than the trivial weight
gain) - just that it was unnecessary and inconvenient.

Terry Morse wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:


I made an argument based on succesful practice and you denounced it by
claiming the people with that experience don't know about nutrition.
It seems you have two different standards depending on which side of
the discussion the evidence is on.


Welcome to the subtle art of argument. I have no skin in this game,
and I'm ready to be convinced by evidence--one way or the other. The
"that's what successful athletes use"(*) argument was pretty weak,
for obvious reasons. So I shot it down.

(*) same argument used in years past to justify tied-and-soldered
spokes, ankling, etc.

A major difference is that your claim was that use of an energy drink
with glucose would be detrimental to the performance of endurance
athletes. Extensive use of such drinks by successful endurance athletes
is valid evidence against such a claim, albeit not a proof.
OTOH, in the case of tied-and-soldered spokes, I don't remember anyone
claiming that it would hurt performance (other than the trivial weight
gain) - just that it was unnecessary and inconvenient.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:09:09 -0700, Terry Morse
wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

I know it makes me look like a petty asshole, but I've got to repost
this, which was written earlier this this thread by someone else:

"Everything I've described is the state of the art when it comes to
nutrition for the endurance athlete. Dozens of studies have looked
at these issues, in the lab and out. What you have described is
nonsense."

That someone else was yours truly, thank you. Got the discussion
going, didn't it? Now we all know more than we did before. What John
described wasn't in the end nonsense, he just couldn't defend it
very well.

Yes, I am unfortunately not so good at persuading people who are
sometimes too thick.

JT