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#101
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:03:31 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:25:07 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 01 May 2017 15:08:31 +0700, John B Slocomb wrote: SNIPPED The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized materials is to grind all the galvanizing off! ACTUALLY, stripping the zinc with acid is much more effective. Hydrochloric acid makes short work of zinc and produces zinc chloride, which can be used as soldering flux - - - Certainly better than the ****wit who suggested grinding it off and breathing it as dust instead of fumes. The steel would probably contaminate it, but it'd have some uses. Zinc really isn't that toxic - its used in baby powder, hundreds of skin lotions and winter defence vitamin supplements. And no one is making all that much commotion about all the scrap zinc batteries that ended up in landfill. The bogeyman most people think of is mercury. That rots out the central nervous system. And elemental mercury isn't the serious problem it'd made out to be either - it's the organic compounds (which CAN form in disposal - if the mercury combines with carbonaceous materials) I thought it was something like a salt or sulphurous compound - but its a long time since I read up on it. And you're being awfully pedantic about the distinction between elements and their organic compounds for someone with no grasp of etymology. I have a good grasp of etymology. However, I also have a very good knowlege of technical terminology and processes - which you obviously do not - and the etymological derivation of a term is not always the comonly used or technically correct definition. Word Origin and History for gal-va-nize Expand v. 1802, from French galvaniser, from galvanisme (see galvanism ). Figurative sense of "excite, stimulate (as if by electricity)" first recorded 1853. Meaning "to coat with metal by means of galvanic electricity" (especially to plate iron with tin, but now typically to plate it with zinc) is from 1839. Also, Galvanic sprouts from the experiments of an Italian by the name of Luigi Galvani who discovered the electrochemical reacion between 2 dis-similar metals - copper and, you guessed it - ZINC - and Galvanic as a term has been associated primarily with Zinc ever since.. History of galvanizing. “In 1836, Sorel in France took out the first of numerous patents for a process of coating steel by dipping it in molten zinc after first cleaning it. He provided the process with its name 'galvanizing'." From WikiPedia: History and etymology - Galvanization (or galvanizing as it is most commonly called in that industry) is the process of applying a protective zinc coating to steel or iron, to prevent rusting. The most common method is hot-dip galvanizing, in which parts are submerged in a bath of molten zinc. The earliest known example of galvanized iron was encountered by Europeans on 17th-century Indian armor in the Royal Armouries Museum collection.[1] It was named in English via French from the name of Italian scientist Luigi Galvani. Originally in the 19th century, the term "galvanizing" was used to describe the administration of electric shocks; this was also called Faradism. This usage is the origin of the metaphorical use of the verb "galvanize", such as to "galvanize into action" meaning stimulating a complacent person or group to take action. In modern usage, the term "galvanizing" has largely come to be associated with zinc coatings, to the exclusion of other metals. Galvanic paint, a precursor to hot-dip galvanizing, was patented by Stanislas Sorel, of Paris, in December 1837 |
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#103
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:09:32 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "Frank Krygowski" wrote in message news On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote: wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award. For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs off on your hands. But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms. Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency? You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]." I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect. My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes. An old proverb about statistics pretty much says it all. You can present published papers to say anything you want. My cites are what I have personally experienced, and what I have observed others experience, as well as the warnings and instruction given to welders by OHSA and CWI instructors. I challenge you to weld hot dipped galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space and then tell me after breathing those fumes that I don't know what I'm talking about. I can pretty well guarantee that if you attempt it you will end up as sick as you have ever been in your life. It won't kill you, but it just might make you wish you COULD die!!! Been there, Done that, sure as HELL will never do it again!!!!! |
#104
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torque wrench issues
wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:03:31 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:25:07 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: wrote in message m... On Mon, 01 May 2017 15:08:31 +0700, John B Slocomb wrote: SNIPPED The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized materials is to grind all the galvanizing off! ACTUALLY, stripping the zinc with acid is much more effective. Hydrochloric acid makes short work of zinc and produces zinc chloride, which can be used as soldering flux - - - Certainly better than the ****wit who suggested grinding it off and breathing it as dust instead of fumes. The steel would probably contaminate it, but it'd have some uses. Zinc really isn't that toxic - its used in baby powder, hundreds of skin lotions and winter defence vitamin supplements. And no one is making all that much commotion about all the scrap zinc batteries that ended up in landfill. The bogeyman most people think of is mercury. That rots out the central nervous system. And elemental mercury isn't the serious problem it'd made out to be either - it's the organic compounds (which CAN form in disposal - if the mercury combines with carbonaceous materials) I thought it was something like a salt or sulphurous compound - but its a long time since I read up on it. And you're being awfully pedantic about the distinction between elements and their organic compounds for someone with no grasp of etymology. I have a good grasp of etymology. However, I also have a very good knowlege of technical terminology and processes - which you obviously do not - and the etymological derivation of a term is not always the comonly used or technically correct definition. Yes - I'm sure "common usage" is a perfectly good excuse. |
#105
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:11:29 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "John B Slocomb" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 01 May 2017 22:25:59 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote: wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award. For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs off on your hands. But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms. Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency? You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]." Yet you insult those who YOU think are "too stupid to take it from someone who's been there..." Sheesh. Must be the painted cow's twin brother - - - Nah, just another old guy with 20 or 30 years in the trade telling you that you are full of it. A bit more than that, and more than one trade - one thing you're not full of is practical experience. Well, I've had LOTS of practical experience and more than one trade. I won't go through it again for your benefit, because it won't change your mind anyway. A lot of the guys on the list know my history and experience. |
#106
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "John B Slocomb" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: a great deal deleted know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered with Zinc". I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology. You mayb be an etymologist and a Brit, but you have little or no technical knowlege from what you keep saying. |
#107
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torque wrench issues
wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:09:32 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: "Frank Krygowski" wrote in message news On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote: wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award. For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs off on your hands. But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms. Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency? You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]." I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect. My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes. An old proverb about statistics pretty much says it all. You can present published papers to say anything you want. My cites are what I have personally experienced, and what I have observed others experience, as well as the warnings and instruction given to welders by OHSA and CWI instructors. I challenge you to weld hot dipped galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space You've already made your opinion abundantly clear. I wouldn't weld *ANYTHING* in a poorly ventilated space. Maybe you would, and you're projecting.............. |
#108
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:48:54 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "John B Slocomb" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding. If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes. The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized materials is to grind all the galvanizing off! Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but who am I to suggest that you're right? Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it. The amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium in the body is about 10 years if memory serves. But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead unless you're a smoker. Or a careless welder. Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you could die. "galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several toxic heavy metals. While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel. Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc. No, "galvanized", in common U.S. usage, does mean zinc coated. Etymology is far too complex for Americans to cope with. Perhaps so. And quite obviously logic is not a subject that the "British" are familiar with. I use "British" with some trepidation as I have met with a large number of folks from the "tiny island nation" and not a single one, when asked, has ever identified themselves as "Oh, I'm British". |
#109
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:09:32 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "Frank Krygowski" wrote in message news On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote: wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award. For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs off on your hands. But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms. Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency? You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]." I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect. My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes. But Ian, old chap, when discussing the "ouch-ouch" sickness you state your reference as "what I read". Now you are claiming "my own eyes" as a reference. A bit of a disparity there, don't you know. An old proverb about statistics pretty much says it all. You can present published papers to say anything you want. And apparently you are doing just that, "presenting what you want", as justification for your claims. |
#110
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torque wrench issues
On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:11:29 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "John B Slocomb" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 01 May 2017 22:25:59 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote: wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous. You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid. I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated that are being spouted here. "galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic heavy metals. Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award. For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs off on your hands. But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms. Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency? You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]." Yet you insult those who YOU think are "too stupid to take it from someone who's been there..." Sheesh. Must be the painted cow's twin brother - - - Nah, just another old guy with 20 or 30 years in the trade telling you that you are full of it. A bit more than that, and more than one trade - one thing you're not full of is practical experience. Well, as I've said, I earned my living for forty years doing it. But I bow to your, obviously, superior knowledge. And your name is Methuselah, one supposes. |
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