you have to be kidding

RonSonic wrote in
:
One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
recommend for any bike over two years old at $192.

An overhaul includes replacing and repacking all your bearings. This is a
fairly labor intensive operation, so $200 isn't totally out-of-line.
The original poster was talking about 3 easy-to-replace parts, so labor should
be a lot less.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:17:58 -0500, Mary wrote:

six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about 4500
miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to have the
chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from the
mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total cost of
replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300.

It's easy to claim that this is a ripoff, but there may be other things
beyond the cassette (maybe $50), chainrings ($50 for name brand) chain
($20). If it needs cables, and adjustments, and perhaps brake pads, these
things add up. Labor is also a factor, and it might not just be a
20-minute job.

He also
said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and that in
6 months it will be hard to find parts for the bike.

Bull****. What's so big a change that is going to happen in 6 months.
The parts are available now, and they will still be there next year.

He recommended I
come in and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.

Well... obviously he was trying to sell you something. But on the other
hand, you are riding 4500 miles per year on a relatively inexpensive
bike. You definitely got your money's worth from it, already.

You might want to consider a significantly better bike, which would be in
line with the mileage you get in the saddle. I would definitely not
consider a cheap replacement like this range for someone who does as many
miles as you do.

Not that you can't enjoy riding on your current bike --- obviously you do
-- but you might consider it.

*I thought
this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes use to last
like forever?

Not really. For one thing, fatigue can take its toll on the frame and on
parts. Eventually, it will be harder to find replacement parts for what
you have, and certainly fancier components are already available.

Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now for 300$
and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now?

It depends on how much you like the bike you have. $300 is a large
fraction of its current value. Depending on whether or not there really
are that many parts that need replacing, that may be a reasonable figure.
If it is, then maybe other parts are also near the end of their life. If
you had a 1994 Honda Civic which needed $1000 worth of transmission work,
would it be worth it?* Similar call here.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 02:45:17 +0000, Ken wrote:

RonSonic wrote in
:
One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
recommend for any bike over two years old at $192.

An overhaul includes replacing and repacking all your bearings. This is a
fairly labor intensive operation, so $200 isn't totally out-of-line.
The original poster was talking about 3 easy-to-replace parts, so labor should
be a lot less.

Add those three easy to replace parts to the $200 and what do you get?

The original post says: "He said that the front ring is worn out and that total
cost of replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300."

I don't know enough to say this is a rip off. Yet.

Ron

I am the original poster. The shop wants $300 to replace the chainring,
chain and cassette. That's all folks. As I stated in a second post. I
took this bike to the shop for a full tune-up every year. I have had
general maintenance and some components replaced as needed. The kicker to
my conversation with the mechanic was that it would be more cost effective
to buy a new bike than fix the one I had. That is what really threw me for
a loop. I can't believe that a 7 year old bike is obsolete but he said it
was and that bikes are now built to become obsolete after a few years. He
said in 6 months there would be no parts available for the bike
I think he saw a middle aged woman and figured I was an easy mark. Will
pick my bike up tomorrow. Have found a shop who is sure they have the parts
and can do the work for a resonable price.

Thanks to all for the help.
..
"RonSonic" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 02:45:17 +0000, Ken wrote:

RonSonic wrote in
m:
One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
recommend for any bike over two years old at $192.

An overhaul includes replacing and repacking all your bearings. This is a
fairly labor intensive operation, so $200 isn't totally out-of-line.
The original poster was talking about 3 easy-to-replace parts, so labor
should
be a lot less.

Add those three easy to replace parts to the $200 and what do you get?

The original post says: "He said that the front ring is worn out and that
total
cost of replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about
$300."

I don't know enough to say this is a rip off. Yet.

Ron

Mary wrote:
six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put
about 4500
miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to have
the
chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from
the
mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total
cost of
replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300.
He also
said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and that
in 6
months it will be hard to find parts for the bike. He recommended I
come in
and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.
I thought this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes
use to
last like forever? Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now
for 300$
and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now? Any
thoughts
would be appreciated. I ride daily when the temperature is over 40
f.
Longest ride each year is a century with 20 mile rides each night and
many
30 to 40 mile rides on the weekends.

Without more information it's just not possible to say if $300 is too
high, too low, or an honest estimate of the "total cost of replacing
everything that needs replaced". For replacing just a chain and
non-exotic (no carbon) chainring it's outrageous but for replacing a
chain, chainring, rear cassette, rebuilding the headset, rebuilding
brifters, recabling the brakes and derailleurs, repacking all bearings,
trueing the wheels and replacing spokes as needed, and replacing tubes
and tires $300 is a steal. What exactly did he say he was going to do
for that $300?
OTOH, his claim that the parts for a six year old Trek are going to be
obsolete and hard to find in six months is misleading at best. My 9
speed Chorus/Record mix was "obsolete" when I bought it because 10
speed components were available. The computer you used to post your
question is undoubtedly "obsolete" yet both my bike and your computer
still work, right? ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Ken wrote:

"Mary" wrote in
:
six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about
4500 miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to
have the chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call
from the mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that
total cost of replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be
about $300.

Are all your front chainrings worn out or just one?
New chain = $15
New cassette = $30
New chainring = $30
Labor will be less than 30 minutes.
Either you misunderstood or something doesn't add up.

Furthermo what are the possible deleterious effects of a worn
chainring?

1. chain skipping. Well? Does your chain skip?
2. faster chain wear. I don't know whether this occurs or not, but does it
really matter? You can get a new chain for $20 Canadian.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

I am the original poster. The shop wants $300 to replace the chainring,
chain and cassette. That's all folks. As I stated in a second post. I
took this bike to the shop for a full tune-up every year. I have had
general maintenance and some components replaced as needed. He said
everything else was fine on the bike.

The kicker to my conversation with the mechanic was that it would be more
cost effective
to buy a new bike than fix the one I had. That is what really threw me for
a loop. I can't believe that a 7 year old bike is obsolete but he said it
was and that bikes are now built to become obsolete after a few years. He
said in 6 months there would be no parts available for the bike
I think he saw a middle aged woman and figured I was an easy mark. Will
pick my bike up tomorrow. Have found a shop who is sure they have the parts
and can do the work for a resonable price.

"Mary" wrote in message
.. .
six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about
4500 miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to have
the chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from the
mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total cost of
replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300. He
also said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and that
in 6 months it will be hard to find parts for the bike. He recommended I
come in and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.
I thought this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes use to
last like forever? Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now for
300$ and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now? Any
thoughts would be appreciated. I ride daily when the temperature is over
40 f. Longest ride each year is a century with 20 mile rides each night
and many 30 to 40 mile rides on the weekends.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:37:41 -0500, "Mary" wrote:

I took the bike in once a year for a full tune-up to the shop in question.
They also did all of the maintenance and repairs on the bike over the last 6
years.

Okay, we know it's been maintained. Let's look at this a little deeper then.
What are your typical annual repair needs and bills like? Has the bike had a
complete overhaul, all bearings replaced and repacked, cables, pads, tuned and
tightened recently? Or is that all part of this $300 service package? If so,
then this is not a bad thing or a bad deal. Especially if it's been a few years
since a full overhaul.

Bikes do last pretty well forever and the replacement parts are not usually real
expensive but can add up. Labor is fairly extensive and increasingly expensive
for them. I wouldn't worry about anything on that bike becoming obsolete. In the
future those part might not be under the counter, but they will be available. I
just overhauled my bikes, one from 1988 the other a 1990 with no parts problems.
I do not like that guy's line about impending obsolescence but don't know what
it's based on, sales spiffs, his sense that this bike might be needing a lot
soon, something his boss tells him to say, or and as likely as anything else a
tendency toward trendiness that afflicts this hobby. A lot of people are happy
to have an excuse to buy a new bike, not disappointed at the need.

The more involved you are in the maintenance and repair of your bike the less it
will cost. That's the one thing I'm sure of. That's true of everything. The most
expensive maintenance program for any object is to make it someone else's
problem and just sign the checks. It is also among the surest ways of ensuring
reliability as well.

Anyway, let's see what he's proposing to do to the bike and what's been done in
the last couple years and see if it adds up.

Ron


"RonSonic" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:18:59 -0500, "psycholist"
wrote:

"Mary" wrote in message
t...
six years ago I bought a Trek 1200. I love the bike and have put about
4500 miles a year on it. I took it in for a tune-up last week and to
have
the chain and chain ring in the back replaced. I just got a call from
the
mechanic. He said that the front ring is worn out and that total cost
of
replacing everything that needs to be replaced will be about $300. He
also said that many of the parts on the bike have become obsolete and
that
in 6 months it will be hard to find parts for the bike. He recommended
I
come in and look at a new bike in the 600 to 700 $$ range.
I thought this was the last bike I would have to buy. Didn't bikes use
to
last like forever? Your opinion...should I fix the bike I have now for
300$ and buy new when I come to that bridge or purchase new now? Any
thoughts would be appreciated. I ride daily when the temperature is
over
40 f. Longest ride each year is a century with 20 mile rides each night
and many 30 to 40 mile rides on the weekends.

No reputable or knowledgeable bike dealer would try that load of garbage.
That's what it is.

If you're riding 4,500 miles a year, you should probably be changing your
chain once or twice a year. Your rear cassette may need to be replaced
every year, too. Your front chainrings should be checked out, but they
may
be OK for another six months to a year.

Mostly this is true.

Those items can easily be replaced, and I'd bet you could do it through
internet shopping for $100 or less. It shouldn't take a decent bike shop
mechanic more than 15 to 20 minutes to replace all that. So maybe it will
cost you for 1/3 of their hourly rate on top of the $100 (though my LBS
will
install about any part you buy from him for free).

WHOA!

We've got a bike with 27,000 miles on it and we don't know a damn thing
about
its maintenance history. Do you really think that any bike with that kind
of
mileage is going to get fixed in twenty freeking minutes? Especially since
the
owner doesn't seem to have any perspective on replacing cogs or chains.

One of the shops in my area is advertising their overhaul which they
recommend
for any bike over two years old at $192.

Now maybe you think that's too much, I don't want to pay it, but sometimes
it
costs a lot to have someone else do the things you should learn to do for
yourself. Whether that's a lot or not, that is what people are charging
for this
kind of work nowadays. I'm not going to begrudge them.

Don't tolerate this rip-off. Don't tolerate ANY rip-off. It will only
encourage the theif to continue in his wicked ways. Take your business
elsewhere!

I think the sales pitch especially on the future availability of parts
rings
badly. That is not the same as a rip-off.

If it turns out that this bike has been well maintained with annual
repacks and
chains and the cogs were replaced every other year, then the price starts
looking excessive. But if, as is certainly possible given the description,
the
bike has been riden enough miles as to circle the globe without frequent
maintenance, the bill may be very reasonable. What would you charge to
spend a
day with this bike?

This group is full of bitching about how there are so few real,
professional
bike mechanics, and bitching about how much the shops charge. Gee, do you
think
there's a relationship there.

Ron

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:03:21 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

I just wanted you to know I've adopted this line of reasoning and have used it
to explain some of my recent behavior. I can't afford the sleek, fast and
lightweight Italian women either.

Ron

"RonSonic" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:37:41 -0500, "Mary" wrote:

I took the bike in once a year for a full tune-up to the shop in question.
They also did all of the maintenance and repairs on the bike over the last
6
years.

Okay, we know it's been maintained. Let's look at this a little deeper
then.
What are your typical annual repair needs and bills like? Has the bike had
a
complete overhaul, all bearings replaced and repacked, cables, pads, tuned
and
tightened recently? Or is that all part of this $300 service package? If
so,
then this is not a bad thing or a bad deal. Especially if it's been a few
years
since a full overhaul.

Bikes do last pretty well forever and the replacement parts are not
usually real
expensive but can add up. Labor is fairly extensive and increasingly
expensive
for them. I wouldn't worry about anything on that bike becoming obsolete.
In the
future those part might not be under the counter, but they will be
available. I
just overhauled my bikes, one from 1988 the other a 1990 with no parts
problems.
I do not like that guy's line about impending obsolescence but don't know
what
it's based on, sales spiffs, his sense that this bike might be needing a
lot
soon, something his boss tells him to say, or and as likely as anything
else a
tendency toward trendiness that afflicts this hobby. A lot of people are
happy
to have an excuse to buy a new bike, not disappointed at the need.

The more involved you are in the maintenance and repair of your bike the
less it
will cost. That's the one thing I'm sure of. That's true of everything.
The most
expensive maintenance program for any object is to make it someone else's
problem and just sign the checks. It is also among the surest ways of
ensuring
reliability as well.

Anyway, let's see what he's proposing to do to the bike and what's been
done in
the last couple years and see if it adds up.

Ron


"RonSonic" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:18:59 -0500, "psycholist"
wrote:

When I spoke with the mechanic he said the bearings were fine and I had the
pads and cables replaced end of last year. He said it was just the
cassette, chain and chainring. Everything else looked fine. I also planed
to buy 2 new tires but that was not in the price.