Further to Claire Petersky's rant

psycholist wrote:
:: "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
:: m...
:::: The manager, when he's there, is very attentive to me and
:::: acknowledges me with valued customer treatment. I've told him
:::: several times, though that he should ask for pictures of his most
:::: valuable customers so he can make a board to go behind the
:::: counter. It would have customer pics and names ... maybe even a
:::: little data like, "serious roadie" or something ... so that the
:::: brain-dead college kids who he hires might also be able to
:::: acknowledge a valued customer.
::::
:::: It just doesn't seem like it would be that hard a thing to do.
:::: And I don't really blame the college kids so much as I do the
:::: manager. How are they supposed to know? But the manager should
:::: see that they know.
:::
::: Wouldn't fly with me. My opinion is that all customers are
::: special, and the one who hasn't yet spent $30k or even $500 in the
::: shop is perhaps the one who hasn't yet been properly helped, maybe
::: because too many people were "hanging out" with the dudes who have
::: their photos on the wall. The irony is that I have about the
::: world's worst memory for names, so, for me, it would be great if
::: there was a way I could quickly remember who's who in the zoo!
::: I've thought about mandatory name tags for customers as they come
::: in the door...
:::
::: But seriously, if I were a customer whose name wasn't on the wall
::: of fame, and yet I felt like I'd been a pretty decent customer, I
::: might decide it's time to go someplace else. The more people you
::: list on something like that, the more you offend who aren't. And
::: if you keep it to an extremely selective few, then it's not doing
::: that much good for your staff anyway.
:::
::: --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
::: http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
:::
::
:: Yes, I'll agree that EVERYONE should be treated like they're a $40k
:: customer. But isn't it obvious that, if they're not treating a $40K
:: customer like they're anybody that NOBODY is getting proper
:: attention?
::
:: Nope. You know what ... I don't agree afterall. I think all
:: customers deserve to be treated special, but extra special customers
:: deserve to be treated EXTRA special. Everyone who goes to a nice
:: restaurant expects good service and a good meal. But those who
:: frequent that restaurant regularly and have gotten to know the staff
:: and the chef have a right to expect the best tables and a little
:: something special from the kitchen every now and then. That's the
:: way it works.
::
:: I think you're making a big mistake as a bike shop owner if you
:: don't think a guy who's spent a ton of money in your shop isn't
:: going to resent NOT being treated a little better than he sees you
:: treating your average customer.
::
:: Of course I'm not advocating ignoring anybody. All customers should
:: be given good service. But I think you're really wrong if you
:: think, in a business like a bike shop, you can afford not to treat
:: your best customers extra special.
::
:: I am a very good customer. I'm very reasonable. I expect my LBS to
:: make a profit. I expect to pay for the service I get. I'm not like
:: some customers I see who expect the LBS to match the lowest price
:: they can find on the internet and who gripe about everything. But I
:: expect my years of loyalty to that store to be recognized and
:: appreciated. As it stands, I'd go elsewhere in a heartbeat if I had
:: a viable alternative.
::

I think you should make a point to see the manager first when you go
there...and let him/her know how you feel....

You admitted yourself that the manager hires young kids and the turnover
rate is apparently high...even if the manager told them all about you, that
still may not solve the problem. OTOH, if you let he manager know when
you're coming, perhaps he/she could put the staff on alert. After all, no
good manager wants to lose a good customer.

psycholist wrote:
:: "Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
:: ...
::: On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:02:07 -0400, "psycholist"
::: wrote:
:::
:::: I've been frequenting the same bike shop for the last dozen years.
:::: I tried one time to figure up all the money I've spent there. I
:::: think it's $40,000 easily. That's probably low. I've bought
:::: several bikes, several sets of expensive wheels, a universal gym,
:::: countless tires and tubes, clothing, helmets, shoes, etc. etc.
:::
::: Damn. I don't think I've spent $ 40,000 total on bike stuff in my
::: life. Getting close to 40 years of riding and probably 10-12 bikes,
::: but, nope, even counting the trailers and counting both tandems on
::: my account, I guess I'm going to fall a few thousand short.
:::
::: Maybe I need to stop patching my tubes so much. Or buy more fancy
::: shorts. Start racing again and bend a few frames or something.
:::
::: Curtis L. Russell
::: Odenton, MD (USA)
::: Just someone on two wheels...
::
:: Or have a family and buy bikes for your wife and kids, plus all their
:: accessories, and get hit by cars TWICE and have insurance pay for
:: full replacement, etc.
::
:: And how much do you ride? I ride 12,000 miles per year on average.
:: I go through quite a few chains, cassettes, tires, saddles, lube,
:: etc.

How do you manage to put in that many miles per year? Just curious where
the time comes from....

::
:: If you've been riding 40 years and you've been through 10 or 12
:: bikes and you don't think you've spent $40,000 then I'm betting you
:: don't know how to count.
::

I believe you...I've only been at this a little while (less than a year),
and I'm well over $2000. If fact, I'd guess even your number is low...

In article ,
says...

....

:: And how much do you ride? I ride 12,000 miles per year on average.
:: I go through quite a few chains, cassettes, tires, saddles, lube,
:: etc.

How do you manage to put in that many miles per year? Just curious where
the time comes from....

That's about 1000 miles per month, or a little over 30 miles per day on
average. A century+ on a weekend and a couple of 25 mile rides during
the week will add up to that much pretty easily, as would commuting to
work. A couple of week-long tours will add up to a lot more than that,
allowing you to take some time off during the winter.


:: If you've been riding 40 years and you've been through 10 or 12
:: bikes and you don't think you've spent $40,000 then I'm betting you
:: don't know how to count.
::

I believe you...I've only been at this a little while (less than a year),
and I'm well over $2000. If fact, I'd guess even your number is low...

I'll bet a lot of your purchases are semi-onetime purchases (shorts,
gloves, helmet, etc), and that you won't continue to spend that much per
year unless you get a new bike every year.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

I think you're making a big mistake as a bike shop owner if you don't
think
a guy who's spent a ton of money in your shop isn't going to resent NOT
being treated a little better than he sees you treating your average
customer.

Of course I'm not advocating ignoring anybody. All customers should be
given good service. But I think you're really wrong if you think, in a
business like a bike shop, you can afford not to treat your best customers
extra special.

I probably make lots of big mistakes! But, if we do our job right, the
customer who spends a ton of money *is* treated better than others, because
we already know about his/her bike when they enter the store, and know what
they might need. We can quickly align appropriate resources because we know
their interests. That customer feels "special" because he/she's well taken
care of. BUT... not to the exclusion of everybody else.

My blood boils if I see a store full of customers but an employee is just
yakking away with a "good customer" because "Hey, this guy spends a ton of
money here, yada yada yada." In such cases, the most important customer is
the potential good customer... the person who's being ignored. The person
whose own blood is boiling because it seems like nobody wants to help him
while others are shooting the breeze.

I pay a lot of attention to what goes on in other stores (other types of
retail stores; I have very little time to hang out in other bike shops), and
how I'm treated. I figure that, what bothers me, might very well bother my
own customers... and react accordingly.

For what it's worth, I did a check a few months ago and found out who our
biggest (dollar-wise) customer was. Turns out to be a really nice guy who
keeps coming back because we have solutions for his problems. It's really
that simple in this particular case. I talked it over with the staff, and
we all came to the same conclusion.... he, and quite a few others like him
(many of whom are women) keep coming back, and bringing in their friends,
simply because we know their history, we know their bikes, and we don't
waste their time. We don't have their name on a wall, but if a new employee
is helping someone I know something about, I bring them up to speed on the
type of riding they do, what their bike is, etc. As do others. Our
employees know (or are supposed to know) that they should share what they
know about customers and their bikes with employees who don't know about
them.

But this is no different than someone returning for a second or third time.
It's just that those people have less history than the long-time "big
spender", but they're no less important. They aren't supposed to be ignored
in favor of the big spender. The world isn't supposed to stop so we can
take care of "x" who just walked in.

If there is a particular type of customer that I go out of my way to try and
take care of, it's the really quiet, nice person who never makes any
demands. The type of person who usually just blends into the scenery. It
might surprise you to know how much business one does with that sort of
customer, and they're the type that would probably feel funny about ever
complaining about anything, but just silently go away, without you ever
realizing it.

This kind of rambled, sorry 'bout that-

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"psycholist" wrote in message
...

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
m...
The manager, when he's there, is very attentive to me and acknowledges
me
with valued customer treatment. I've told him several times, though
that
he
should ask for pictures of his most valuable customers so he can make
a
board to go behind the counter. It would have customer pics and names
...
maybe even a little data like, "serious roadie" or something ... so
that
the
brain-dead college kids who he hires might also be able to acknowledge
a
valued customer.

It just doesn't seem like it would be that hard a thing to do. And I
don't
really blame the college kids so much as I do the manager. How are
they
supposed to know? But the manager should see that they know.

Wouldn't fly with me. My opinion is that all customers are special, and
the
one who hasn't yet spent $30k or even $500 in the shop is perhaps the
one
who hasn't yet been properly helped, maybe because too many people were
"hanging out" with the dudes who have their photos on the wall. The
irony
is that I have about the world's worst memory for names, so, for me, it
would be great if there was a way I could quickly remember who's who in
the
zoo! I've thought about mandatory name tags for customers as they come
in
the door...

But seriously, if I were a customer whose name wasn't on the wall of
fame,
and yet I felt like I'd been a pretty decent customer, I might decide
it's
time to go someplace else. The more people you list on something like
that,
the more you offend who aren't. And if you keep it to an extremely
selective few, then it's not doing that much good for your staff anyway.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Yes, I'll agree that EVERYONE should be treated like they're a $40k
customer. But isn't it obvious that, if they're not treating a $40K
customer like they're anybody that NOBODY is getting proper attention?

Nope. You know what ... I don't agree afterall. I think all customers
deserve to be treated special, but extra special customers deserve to be
treated EXTRA special. Everyone who goes to a nice restaurant expects
good
service and a good meal. But those who frequent that restaurant regularly
and have gotten to know the staff and the chef have a right to expect the
best tables and a little something special from the kitchen every now and
then. That's the way it works.

I think you're making a big mistake as a bike shop owner if you don't
think
a guy who's spent a ton of money in your shop isn't going to resent NOT
being treated a little better than he sees you treating your average
customer.

Of course I'm not advocating ignoring anybody. All customers should be
given good service. But I think you're really wrong if you think, in a
business like a bike shop, you can afford not to treat your best customers
extra special.

I am a very good customer. I'm very reasonable. I expect my LBS to make
a
profit. I expect to pay for the service I get. I'm not like some
customers
I see who expect the LBS to match the lowest price they can find on the
internet and who gripe about everything. But I expect my years of loyalty
to that store to be recognized and appreciated. As it stands, I'd go
elsewhere in a heartbeat if I had a viable alternative.

Bob C.

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article ,
:: says...
::
:: ...
::
::::: And how much do you ride? I ride 12,000 miles per year on
::::: average. I go through quite a few chains, cassettes, tires,
::::: saddles, lube, etc.
:::
::: How do you manage to put in that many miles per year? Just curious
::: where the time comes from....
::
:: That's about 1000 miles per month, or a little over 30 miles per day
:: on average. A century+ on a weekend and a couple of 25 mile rides
:: during the week will add up to that much pretty easily, as would
:: commuting to work. A couple of week-long tours will add up to a lot
:: more than that, allowing you to take some time off during the winter.

I could see the commuting to work, but I thought he mentioned driving to
work in another post.....

I can't imagine one having time, unless you're a pro or retired, to do 250
miles a week without biking to/from work. That's just me....


::
::
::::: If you've been riding 40 years and you've been through 10 or 12
::::: bikes and you don't think you've spent $40,000 then I'm betting
::::: you don't know how to count.
:::::
:::
::: I believe you...I've only been at this a little while (less than a
::: year), and I'm well over $2000. If fact, I'd guess even your
::: number is low...
::
:: I'll bet a lot of your purchases are semi-onetime purchases (shorts,
:: gloves, helmet, etc), and that you won't continue to spend that much
:: per year unless you get a new bike every year.

True...but now I'm buying other stuff....computers, stands, new wheels, etc.
and the OP has a family too....

::
:: --
:: Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
:: newsgroups if possible).

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:27:20 -0400, "psycholist"
wrote:

If you've been riding 40 years and you've been through 10 or 12 bikes and
you don't think you've spent $40,000 then I'm betting you don't know how to
count.

I don't replace bikes just because I feel like it. I've bought the
following bikes in my lifetime:

1967 Schwinn Continental about $ 120
1969 (approximately) Gitane Gran Sport about $ 140
1970 (approximately) Gitane Tour de France about $ 250
1975 Italvega Superspecialle about $ 500 (worked at the shop)
Blue Sky MTB by a second tier bike company, can't remember the year
about $ 300
1981 Proteus Custom Tourer about $ 1,200
1981 Proteus track bike about $ 500, another $ 100 for road mods
Lotus Supreme (don't remember the year) $ 700
Santana Arriva S about $ 2,200
Fuji 500 (2) for my wife and son - total about $ 900
Viner, second hand, for my wife - $ 300
Schwinn Team, second hand, for my son - $ 300
Trek 1200 about $ 600, new but prior year model
Vision R42 $ 1400
Vision R45 for my wife $ 2200
Double Vision about $ 4000 by the time I was finished
Bike Friday Metro, with everything $ 800
Breezer folder for my wife about $ 600
first trailer $ 200
second trailer, Howling Dog $ 800
Yakima rack system, about $ 1200 in total.

Full Campy repair kit way back when, complete with humongous circular
base - about $ 7000

I'm at about $ 26,500 and I've tossed in about all of the items of
significance. I have kept records on and off over the years and, no,
my annual cost per year for small stuff does not come close to $ 500,
even when it included my wife and son both. Most years under $ 200.
Call it cheating - I got two good light sets that would have added
about $ 900 to the total as either birthday or Christmas presents from
my in-laws.

Toss in clothing, which only amounted to much when I was racing, and
you are still below $ 40,000. Maybe you want to add every century fee
and bike club dues, like the three life memberships to LAW, but you
can't get those at bike shops.

Yeah, I do think I have a pretty good idea of what I've spent. Those
bikes aren't all that shabby and, no, it still doesn't come to $
40,000.

No, I don't ride 12,000 miles, but then I didn't say you didn't spend
$ 40,000; I said I didn't spend it. Unlike you, I didn't try to speak
to what someone else spends. I have a few friends that probaby spend
that much, but I'm not in buying a new Serotta or high-end Trek every
year.

I'm putting on about 3-4,000 miles a year now, FWIW. Enough for my
purposes.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 12:15:42 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:
:: And how much do you ride? I ride 12,000 miles per year on average.
:: I go through quite a few chains, cassettes, tires, saddles, lube,
:: etc.

How do you manage to put in that many miles per year? Just curious where
the time comes from....

There's loads of those people here. I can't figure it out, either.
--
Rick Onanian

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
. com...
snipped
If there is a particular type of customer that I go out of my way to try
and
take care of, it's the really quiet, nice person who never makes any
demands. The type of person who usually just blends into the scenery. It
might surprise you to know how much business one does with that sort of
customer, and they're the type that would probably feel funny about ever
complaining about anything, but just silently go away, without you ever
realizing it.

This kind of rambled, sorry 'bout that-

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

It has been said in retail "For every customer who complains there are nine
who don't."

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:10:12 -0400, Rick Onanian
wrote:


There's loads of those people here. I can't figure it out, either.
--
Rick Onanian

I actually put about 12,000 miles on my bike for two years, largely
thanks to a 20 mile each way commute. For whatever reason, I went
through one cassette and one extra chain a year and the Unica-Nitor
buffalo hide seat stayed pretty much intact. Did OK on tires, too, so
it only added about $ 60 to $ 100 a year back then (1982).

One of the years was bad for tires, though. Graduation Day beer bottle
throwing contests must not have gone well, because most of the bottles
didn't clear the side of the road. Went through both tubes and a patch
kit one day and rode home in a pickup truck full of migrant workers.
Interesting day...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
. com...
I probably make lots of big mistakes! But, if we do our job right, the
customer who spends a ton of money *is* treated better than others,
because
we already know about his/her bike when they enter the store, and know
what
they might need. We can quickly align appropriate resources because we
know
their interests. That customer feels "special" because he/she's well
taken
care of. BUT... not to the exclusion of everybody else.

How is this any different from the very point I was making?

Bob C.