Continental Ultra Sport tires

On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 1:11:36 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 11:28:32 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 10:23:19 AM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:

Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the
tire up and away from the rim.

Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not?

There are tools for that:
https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg

but strong hands alone will seat most.

Thanks (and to sir) for the advice.

What all this sounds to me like is that you have "two-way" or
"tubeless" rims and Continental tires will not work properly
with those wheels. They are clincher tires. Continental is
presently working on tubeless tires and they are expected to be
released next spring.

Except the bike is about four years old, and the rims worked okay
with previous Continental clincher tires--just different models.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ted, I don't see where that would make any difference. IF the wheels have a center well over the spoke holes and higher "step" areas over the sides these would be "two-way" rims or tubeless rims. The way that they manufacture tubeless tires is carefully controlled as to the depth of the bead but on a standard clincher it is not.

I emailed Continental during an argument with some people about tubeless tires and Continental said that their present tires are not adequate to be used as tubeless and that they hope to have tubeless tires in the spring.

What you might want to try is to measure the depth of the bead from the bottom, to the line on the tire and then measure the depth of the rim bead and see how they compare.

Now my experience with clincher tires has been exactly opposite - the bead depth on regular clinchers is less than that on the rims. They almost flopped on. So all of your problems seem totally foreign to me.

And looking at all of the tire charts on Shelton's site doesn't show anything that could cause your problem such as getting some odd-ball size tire. Everything even CLOSE to 700C would work.

Nor could I think of any rim problems that could cause your problem.

On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:23:16 +0000 (UTC),
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:

...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm
from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim
in a place (or two?).

My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that
the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in
those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even
smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but
could not convince it to pop out into place.

So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic
problem is mismatch between tire and rim
diameter/circumference.

Could be.

Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as
car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded
similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can
often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount
tire.

Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a
satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move
anything.

I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up"
the tire. How is this done?

I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the
inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned
above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel
at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above
the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the
wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the
benchtop.

Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the
tire only partially inflated?


Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the
tire up and away from the rim.

Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not?


There are tools for that:
https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg

but strong hands alone will seat most.

Just to follow up, I took a pair of vice grips to the tire;
couldn't seem to get it seated, either fully inflated or
partiallly deflated. I went out and rode on it for a couple of
hours, and when I finished it was seated all the way around.

I'm thinking back now to how hard it is to get the tires
unmounted, in some spots it takes a great deal of force to push
the tube back out of the rim (with the tubes unpressurized, of
course). I'm wonndering if perhaps the bead is molded, and the
molds may have been worn--producing an oversized bead.

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 9:42:00 PM UTC-4, Theodore Heise wrote:
Snipped
At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

That's what I did when I had that hard to seat tire = I got rid of it and got a tire that I could easily remove on the road. It's bad enough to try and change a tube on the road but it's even worse if it's pouring rain, the wind is blowing and you're darn near freezing. You sure don't want a hard to mount or a hard to seat tire then.

Cheers

Cheers

On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:23:16 +0000 (UTC),
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:

...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm
from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim
in a place (or two?).

My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that
the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in
those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even
smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but
could not convince it to pop out into place.

So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic
problem is mismatch between tire and rim
diameter/circumference.

Could be.

Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as
car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded
similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can
often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount
tire.

Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a
satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move
anything.

I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up"
the tire. How is this done?

I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the
inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned
above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel
at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above
the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the
wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the
benchtop.

Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the
tire only partially inflated?


Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the
tire up and away from the rim.

Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not?


There are tools for that:
https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg

but strong hands alone will seat most.

Just to follow up, I took a pair of vice grips to the tire;
couldn't seem to get it seated, either fully inflated or
partiallly deflated. I went out and rode on it for a couple of
hours, and when I finished it was seated all the way around.

I'm thinking back now to how hard it is to get the tires
unmounted, in some spots it takes a great deal of force to push
the tube back out of the rim (with the tubes unpressurized, of
course). I'm wonndering if perhaps the bead is molded, and the
molds may have been worn--producing an oversized bead.

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.

On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will
stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.

Yes, I believe so, but after some months in use they haven't
gotten noticeably easier to mount. Maybe it takes longer.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 2:21:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped
Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.

Not all folding tires will stretch a lot over time or enough to make a hard to mount tire easier to mount. I had that problem with a pair of folding Michelin Pros that were so hard to mount and get off that one time on the road I broke two tire levers trying to get one off in order to change or patch the tube. That taught me that if a tire is overly hard to mount or seat at home to forgo it and get something that's easier to work with.

Cheers

On 10/2/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:23:16 +0000 (UTC),
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:

...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm
from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim
in a place (or two?).

My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that
the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in
those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even
smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but
could not convince it to pop out into place.

So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic
problem is mismatch between tire and rim
diameter/circumference.

Could be.

Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as
car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded
similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can
often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount
tire.

Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a
satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move
anything.

I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up"
the tire. How is this done?

I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the
inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned
above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel
at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above
the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the
wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the
benchtop.

Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the
tire only partially inflated?


Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the
tire up and away from the rim.

Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not?


There are tools for that:
https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg

but strong hands alone will seat most.

Just to follow up, I took a pair of vice grips to the tire;
couldn't seem to get it seated, either fully inflated or
partiallly deflated. I went out and rode on it for a couple of
hours, and when I finished it was seated all the way around.

I'm thinking back now to how hard it is to get the tires
unmounted, in some spots it takes a great deal of force to push
the tube back out of the rim (with the tubes unpressurized, of
course). I'm wonndering if perhaps the bead is molded, and the
molds may have been worn--producing an oversized bead.

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.


Although oft-repeated I have not found that to be true in
the real world.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 12:26:01 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will
stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.

Yes, I believe so, but after some months in use they haven't
gotten noticeably easier to mount. Maybe it takes longer.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

It shouldn't take more than one installation and perhaps a week on the bike for them to stretch out. I think that you in some manner got a bad batch.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 1:49:30 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2018 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:23:16 +0000 (UTC),
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:

...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm
from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim
in a place (or two?).

My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that
the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in
those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even
smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but
could not convince it to pop out into place.

So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic
problem is mismatch between tire and rim
diameter/circumference.

Could be.

Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as
car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded
similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can
often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount
tire.

Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a
satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move
anything.

I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up"
the tire. How is this done?

I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the
inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned
above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel
at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above
the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the
wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the
benchtop.

Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the
tire only partially inflated?


Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the
tire up and away from the rim.

Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not?


There are tools for that:
https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg

but strong hands alone will seat most.

Just to follow up, I took a pair of vice grips to the tire;
couldn't seem to get it seated, either fully inflated or
partiallly deflated. I went out and rode on it for a couple of
hours, and when I finished it was seated all the way around.

I'm thinking back now to how hard it is to get the tires
unmounted, in some spots it takes a great deal of force to push
the tube back out of the rim (with the tubes unpressurized, of
course). I'm wonndering if perhaps the bead is molded, and the
molds may have been worn--producing an oversized bead.

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.


Although oft-repeated I have not found that to be true in
the real world.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have and it was quite noticeable. But noticeable is not a lot of stretch. The rim cord is woven like a rope and that weaving tightens to its limit upon the initial inflation to full pressure.

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 12:59:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 12:26:01 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:

At any rate, I don't want tires that are sodamn hard to mount.
It's okay in the shop, but not while riding--when as often as not
there will be others waiting for me. So I'm going to order some
of a different kind. I have the Marathons that Jay mentioned on
my list, and the previous Continentals I've used with some success
seems to be ULTRARACE and GRANDSPORT RACE. So I'll look for these
as well as the GP 4000s.

Was this a synthetic cord? (folding tire) If so these will
stretch over time and will go on and off quite easily.

Yes, I believe so, but after some months in use they haven't
gotten noticeably easier to mount. Maybe it takes longer.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

It shouldn't take more than one installation and perhaps a week on the bike for them to stretch out. I think that you in some manner got a bad batch..

So, you're saying that everyone that gets a folding tire that doesn't stretch over time has got their tire from a bad batch? Inconceivable! I stated that I did not have my tire stretch over time and A. Muzi said he doesn't see folding tires stretching over time either.

Cheers