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  #61  
Old April 12th 15, 12:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking



wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww_________

I see every edition of those, and save most on my hard drive. Show me
something pertinent that I haven't seen.


eyyeyahhahhahahha......

your honor we objecto !

Frank pleads in fiend ignorance.

Frank applies upright riding in Ohio to

commuting in California

riding hard in beach sand soils

touring in New England Fall Color season

living in Miamuh

......................

we object

he lies by omission

as a conversational toolus
Ads
  #62  
Old April 12th 15, 01:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 12:29:39 PM UTC-7, Phil W Lee wrote:
jbeattie considered Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:00:46
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:57:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 5:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 9:08:04 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 10:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:03:07 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
Like I said no one at the ER has ever asked me if I was
wearing a helmet.

In the US, the ED staff is working from a script -- an Epic charting system or home-grown electronic charting system that takes them through a list of questions for every MVA/bike incident. It will have a helmet question as a means of gathering information about helmet usage and screening for head injuries. It will also ask about alcohol use, smoking and a lot of other stuff that has appears to have nothing to do with road rash.

... which means, "Of course you should wear a helmet!" promotion is
leading to the collection of data to be used for helmet promotion. But
_only_ for people on two-wheelers* - i.e. bicycles and motorcycles.

Yes, Frank, it's all part of the giant conspiracy out to enslave your head. Listen carefully . . . you can hear them whispering inside the walls.

Huh. I thought those were mice.

But is there any reason you use to justify fear mongering for such a
safe activity?


If a person is in the emergency room with injuries from a bicycling-related accident, I think it is reasonable to ask about helmet use to (1) screen for head injury,


Well, that would be an epic fail, since foam hats don't do anything to
prevent it!
A few failed foam hats probably inflate the figures though, because
all the people who don't know how they are supposed to work (by
crushing, not cracking) will inevitably report something as being a
TBI if the foam was broken, just to cover themselves against any
potential claim for malpractice if anything turns up later that they
missed, and the broken helmet produced as proof to another bunch of
people who don't know anything about how foam is supposed to absorb
energy, but have the power to decide on the outcome of a claim.
And then we get another "helmet saved my life" story.

and (2) gather data on helmet use. Keep in mind that the person is already in an emergency room for what he or she considers to be a serious injury(s). Most people do not go to the ER for road rash, but maybe that is SOP in Canada -- who knows. Anyway, I don't think fear needs to be mongered to people who have already been injured. It's not like they are ordering at McDonalds and the counter-person asks if they wear a helmet when riding a bike.

Perhaps Epic could impose a requirement that physicians tell cyclists who have been involved in accidents that "cycling is safer than walking!" They could also have a requirement to tell people who tripped while walking that "walking is safer than driving!" And tell drivers that driving is safer than skiing . . . and tell skiers that skiing is safer than, well, bull fighting! Everyone should feel good about everything because we're all unique little snowflakes and winners in our own right!

Damn, this is a bummer. Bicycling is at the top of the list for sports-related TBIs. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6039a1.htm Epic is going to have to punt on that one.

Without any data on exposure rates, that is so completely meaningless
as to be downright dishonest.
If anything it just demonstrates the popularity of cycling compared to
other sport and leisure activities.


Phil, you can let the steam out of the outrage calliope. It was a joke. Who knows what the statistic means, although if I were an ER physician and saw a lot of kids with bicycling related TBIs, I'd probably tell them to wear helmets -- if only to avoid reinjury.

BTW, even in PDX, Bicycle Town USA, most kids spend more time on the soccer pitch than on road bikes -- at least that was the case with my son's cohort. He spent more time on skis. It is disappointing how few ride on this side of town. There is some danger-danger involved, but a lot of it has to do with terrain.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #63  
Old April 12th 15, 01:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On 11/04/15 06:16, Duane wrote:


It's just that in this forum road rash is intended by some to mean some
slight superficial injury. Most of us know that this is not always the
case.


Road rash to me means layers of skin off, bleeding, but nothing that
requires stitches or a cast or surgery or a sling.

My last road rash, a silly oops, resulted in some large areas of skin
off. Yes I would call this a superficial injury. Just sore, unpleasant
and uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

--
JS
  #64  
Old April 12th 15, 02:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 8:47:26 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 11/04/15 06:16, Duane wrote:


It's just that in this forum road rash is intended by some to mean some
slight superficial injury. Most of us know that this is not always the
case.


Road rash to me means layers of skin off, bleeding, but nothing that
requires stitches or a cast or surgery or a sling.

My last road rash, a silly oops, resulted in some large areas of skin
off. Yes I would call this a superficial injury. Just sore, unpleasant
and uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

--
JS


http://goo.gl/yXSArB
  #65  
Old April 12th 15, 03:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On 4/11/2015 8:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Phil, you can let the steam out of the outrage calliope. It was a joke.

Who knows what the statistic means, although if I were an ER physician and
saw a lot of kids with bicycling related TBIs, I'd probably tell them to
wear helmets -- if only to avoid reinjury.

And my point is, if the typical ER physician saw a lot of kids with
pedestrian-related TBIs or car-riding TBIs, he'd never mention helmets.
Helmets are only mentioned for bike crashes - TBI or not. It's just
part of the "biking is dangerous" meme.

This is a good time to remind you that ER physicians _don't_ see a lot
of bicycle-related TBIs. Neither do other medical personnel who
specialize in TBI rehabilitation. For a while, we had posting here a
psychologist who specialized in TBI recovery. He sang the usual song,
until forced to admit that he'd never had to deal with TBI cyclists.
And the TBI rehab worker who rode with our club for a while admitted
that in seven years of full-time work in that field, she'd dealt with
only one cyclist, "He was a racer" - which meant, he doubtlessly had
been wearing a helmet. Both of those folks made a full time living out
of motorists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and people just falling around
the home.

As it happens, we have an ER physician in the family. He works in a
state with a kids MHL law. He says he almost never sees bicycle TBI
(although he sees it from other causes); and he says as far as he can
tell, the imposition of the MHL made no detectable difference.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #66  
Old April 12th 15, 04:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
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Posts: 612
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On 4/11/2015 2:09 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
"T0m $herman" considered Fri, 10
Apr 2015 17:37:46 -0500 the perfect time to write:

On 4/10/2015 6:10 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 19:02:03 -0500, "T0m $herman"
wrote:

Knee, hip, back, elbow, and shoulder armor really does work, but it is
too hot, restrictive, and heavy for any type of non-gravity powered
bicycling.


During your absence there was a discussion about helmets and someone
commented that what he was looking for was light weight and cool. So
perhaps foam armor with ventilation holes is the answer.

I have an armored leather suit that is heavier than the minimum UCI
legal bicycle weight.


I've had several like that, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to cycle
in them unless the temperature were well below freezing!

Too restrictive to pedal in too - but I would be tempted by compression
shorts with hip armor if I was racing a low 'bent, since the hip and
elbow will be the places most likely to hit the ground first.

Mind you, the metal studded palms on one of the pairs of motorcycle
gloves would be handy to deal with close overtakers!

I have seen a few with palm sliders, but most have the hard armor over
the knuckles on the back side - even a light back-hand on a car side
window will get the attention of all but the most brain-dead cager.

--
T0m $herm@n
  #67  
Old April 12th 15, 06:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 606
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:25:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/11/2015 12:02 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 10:41:14 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/10/2015 4:16 PM, Duane wrote:
On 10/04/2015 3:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

It's not SOP in Canada or Ontario (a province in Canada) to go to the
ER for road rash. I went because the roasd rash was fairly extensive
and in areas I could not reach to get the grit out of. I wanted to be
sure I didn't get complications fron some weird infection so went to
have those areas well cleaned.

It's just that in this forum road rash is intended by some to mean some
slight superficial injury. Most of us know that this is not always the
case.

I guess I'm an outlier again. I've had road rash once that I recall,
which means, since turning 18 (about 50 years ago). It was a patch
about 2 cm diameter on my knee. I was more upset that I tore my nice
(non-cycling-specific) jacket.

I do try hard to keep the tires between me and the ground.

--
- Frank Krygowski


You do live a charmed life Frank. Most of us also like to and try to keep the tires on the surface of what we are riding. However sometimes **** beyond our control happens and we go down.


I am curious about how often other people crash, and what causes their
crashes.

I've had only two moving on-road crashes since getting an adult bike in
1972. One was a winter fall on a super-steep (now closed to traffic)
city street in the winter. Descending at walking speed, I turned to
avoid some glass and my front tire slid out on gravel. The other was
when the front forks suddenly broke off of our custom tandem at about 10
mph.

Playing around off-road on mountain bikes, etc. I've had some topples,
but no injuries. I'm _very_ careful about watching road surfaces, and
of course I ride roads as a legal vehicle operator.

So how do other people get in trouble?


I ducked my head thinking that the limb on the ornamental shrub on the
side of the road would just brush over my head. It didn't, I crashed.
Hit the road at about 30 KPH and broke my hip.

As an aside, the Emergency Room DID NOT ask me if I was wearing a
helmet :-(
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #68  
Old April 12th 15, 07:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On 4/10/2015 3:16 PM, Duane wrote:
On 10/04/2015 3:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie
wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:57:22 PM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 5:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 9:08:04 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 10:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:03:07 AM UTC-7, Duane
wrote:
Like I said no one at the ER has ever asked me if
I was
wearing a helmet.

In the US, the ED staff is working from a script --
an Epic charting system or home-grown electronic
charting system that takes them through a list of
questions for every MVA/bike incident. It will have
a helmet question as a means of gathering information
about helmet usage and screening for head injuries.
It will also ask about alcohol use, smoking and a lot
of other stuff that has appears to have nothing to do
with road rash.

... which means, "Of course you should wear a helmet!"
promotion is
leading to the collection of data to be used for
helmet promotion. But
_only_ for people on two-wheelers* - i.e. bicycles and
motorcycles.

Yes, Frank, it's all part of the giant conspiracy out
to enslave your head. Listen carefully . . . you can
hear them whispering inside the walls.

Huh. I thought those were mice.

But is there any reason you use to justify fear
mongering for such a
safe activity?

If a person is in the emergency room with injuries from a
bicycling-related accident, I think it is reasonable to
ask about helmet use to (1) screen for head injury, and
(2) gather data on helmet use. Keep in mind that the
person is already in an emergency room for what he or she
considers to be a serious injury(s). Most people do not
go to the ER for road rash, but maybe that is SOP in
Canada -- who knows. Anyway, I don't think fear needs to
be mongered to people who have already been injured. It's
not like they are ordering at McDonalds and the
counter-person asks if they wear a helmet when riding a
bike.

Perhaps Epic could impose a requirement that physicians
tell cyclists who have been involved in accidents that
"cycling is safer than walking!" They could also have a
requirement to tell people who tripped while walking that
"walking is safer than driving!" And tell drivers that
driving is safer than skiing . . . and tell skiers that
skiing is safer than, well, bull fighting! Everyone
should feel good about everything because we're all
unique little snowflakes and winners in our own right!

Damn, this is a bummer. Bicycling is at the top of the
list for sports-related TBIs.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6039a1.htm
Epic is going to have to punt on that one.

-- Jay Beattie.


It's not SOP in Canada or Ontario (a province in Canada)
to go to the ER for road rash. I went because the roasd
rash was fairly extensive and in areas I could not reach
to get the grit out of. I wanted to be sure I didn't get
complications fron some weird infection so went to have
those areas well cleaned.



It's just that in this forum road rash is intended by some
to mean some slight superficial injury. Most of us know
that this is not always the case.


Right, it's a minor skin abrasion on someone else's hip, but
when it's your own it's a couple of weeks of pain and suffering.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #69  
Old April 12th 15, 08:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 2:41:59 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/10/2015 3:16 PM, Duane wrote:
On 10/04/2015 3:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 3:00:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie
wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:57:22 PM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 5:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 9:08:04 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2015 10:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:03:07 AM UTC-7, Duane
wrote:
Like I said no one at the ER has ever asked me if
I was
wearing a helmet.

In the US, the ED staff is working from a script --
an Epic charting system or home-grown electronic
charting system that takes them through a list of
questions for every MVA/bike incident. It will have
a helmet question as a means of gathering information
about helmet usage and screening for head injuries.
It will also ask about alcohol use, smoking and a lot
of other stuff that has appears to have nothing to do
with road rash.

... which means, "Of course you should wear a helmet!"
promotion is
leading to the collection of data to be used for
helmet promotion. But
_only_ for people on two-wheelers* - i.e. bicycles and
motorcycles.

Yes, Frank, it's all part of the giant conspiracy out
to enslave your head. Listen carefully . . . you can
hear them whispering inside the walls.

Huh. I thought those were mice.

But is there any reason you use to justify fear
mongering for such a
safe activity?

If a person is in the emergency room with injuries from a
bicycling-related accident, I think it is reasonable to
ask about helmet use to (1) screen for head injury, and
(2) gather data on helmet use. Keep in mind that the
person is already in an emergency room for what he or she
considers to be a serious injury(s). Most people do not
go to the ER for road rash, but maybe that is SOP in
Canada -- who knows. Anyway, I don't think fear needs to
be mongered to people who have already been injured. It's
not like they are ordering at McDonalds and the
counter-person asks if they wear a helmet when riding a
bike.

Perhaps Epic could impose a requirement that physicians
tell cyclists who have been involved in accidents that
"cycling is safer than walking!" They could also have a
requirement to tell people who tripped while walking that
"walking is safer than driving!" And tell drivers that
driving is safer than skiing . . . and tell skiers that
skiing is safer than, well, bull fighting! Everyone
should feel good about everything because we're all
unique little snowflakes and winners in our own right!

Damn, this is a bummer. Bicycling is at the top of the
list for sports-related TBIs.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6039a1.htm
Epic is going to have to punt on that one.

-- Jay Beattie.

It's not SOP in Canada or Ontario (a province in Canada)
to go to the ER for road rash. I went because the roasd
rash was fairly extensive and in areas I could not reach
to get the grit out of. I wanted to be sure I didn't get
complications fron some weird infection so went to have
those areas well cleaned.



It's just that in this forum road rash is intended by some
to mean some slight superficial injury. Most of us know
that this is not always the case.


Right, it's a minor skin abrasion on someone else's hip, but
when it's your own it's a couple of weeks of pain and suffering.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Getting road rash from some surfaces such as some rail-trails can lead to a really nasty infection if the road rash isn't thoroughly cleaned out.


A few years ago a number of bicyclist in a group ride on Victoria Island (iirc) got very sick and had to go to hospital because they rode through some water that'd come from a farm. The spray onto their water bottles carried the bacteria (E-coli iirc) into their bodies when they drank the water. I don't know if ttheir mouth touched the bottle or not. You just don't know what nasty thigs are in the grit that gets into road rash.

Cheers
  #70  
Old April 12th 15, 10:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 206
Default Brandt on soldred/tied spoking


"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message ...

I am curious about how often other people crash, and what causes their
crashes.


So how do other people get in trouble?


Well Frank we had an exchange a few years ago on this topic and if you recall I said that on average I crash on average about once every 15000 miles or 2 years and that these are almost always loss of traction crashes that do not invlove anyone else.

In the whole of my cycling life time (50 years) I have had two crashes with motor vehicles which both led to serious injuries one of which I carry to this day and another in which I hit a child running out from between parked cars. None of these I would contend were my fault. The two car impacts were the result of cars turning into me with the usual excuse "Sorry I did not see you mate". Fortunately I had witnesses for one and benefitted financially from the resulting compensation.

Also on your favourite topic of helmets a number of these craches have resulted in damage to my helmets but none to my head or face. In one particular crash on a steep descent I slid along the ground with only my helmet keeping my forehead and right eye off the tarmac. The helmet point of contact was worn away by almost half an inch.

To answer your direct question as to how some of us get into trouble then it is because we train, we race, we push the envelope and when you do that as several other posters have said "**** happens". Do not get me wrong I have the greatest respect for all who ride a bike but I have the utmost contempt for the likes of you who continually deride those who do not conform to your view of what cycling is about.

Graham.

---
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http://www.avast.com

 




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