IQ-X vs Edelux II

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 6:26:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2019 7:49 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/10/2019 11:50 AM, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 9/4/19 1:55 am, jbeattie wrote:


It's not nutty at all. Cars have high beams which, of course, do not
have cut-off. Hard beam cut off is a bad thing in undulating terrain
with no ambient light sources, and reaching down to tilt up your
StVZO light and tilt it down doesn't make a lot of sense. There are
a lot of places I would like a high beam and a lot of places where
high beams should be outlawed, just like for motorists on the road.

Yes, there are times a high beam light would be handy, though not
perhaps essential. I can drive my car at night on unlit roads without
using high beam lights. I just drive slower. Sometimes I have to dip
my high beam lights on approach to corners and such where there are
highly reflective signs. I find the reflected light dazzles me.


One of my headlight assemblies had yellowed out so much that I wanted to
replace it. If I went to Ford I would have to buy both assemblies at
once and it would cost $400. I bought the driver's side for $68 and it
was made in China. What a pain in the ass!. First of all, there were a
couple of metal clips for holding the wiring assembly into a particular
position. These had to be broken to remove. Then the headlamp holding
assembly turned out to be different and they didn't tell you until I
noticed that there was an extra "nut" installed. Removing it I
discovered I had to pull the headlight off of the wiring plug in order
to remove the stock "nut" and then install the new one. Finally got that
to work. Then there is a large cone shaped mechanism that makes the
headlight a water-tight seal. That did not assemble correctly because it
appears that the depth of the hook is slightly different. Finally got
the damn thing figured out and test it and the headlight had been damaged on the r
emoval-reinstallation process. I suppose they age harden the glass around the filament.

I drove up to the auto parts store and got a new headlight. Got home and
installed it and now the turn signal didn't work - I had tested it when
I tested the headlight and it was fine. So BACK up to the auto parts
store and I bought a couple of new turn signal lights. These things,
like the headlights, come in dozens of different sizes. Since they are
all 12 VDC you'd think that they would have standardized them decades ago.

Back home, reassembled everything and since there were no more of those
little harness clips I just placed the harness in about the correct
position. All worked and it only took me 4 hours to do what a trained
mechanic could have done in 30 minutes with Ford Parts for only 5 times what I paid.



Which is better, Chinese car lamp lenses or Chinese carbon
wheels?

p.s. Everything in life is a choice. Mine are under $10,
change in two minutes:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wag-h5006/overview/


Those old 7" sealed beam headlights were ****. Bosch halogens (with the
asymmetrical beam pattern) blew those right out of the water.


You are correct.
Then again my minimum legal replacement is under $10 and not
remarkably different from Tom's.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Mine has about 10 procedures to remove or reinstall. Yours has two.

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 12:38:59 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 5:54:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 5:39:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
By golly, I AM the boss psychologist. On April 7th I wrote:
"**
Now watch the wretched Krygowski screech "Danger! Danger!" merely for wanting to see obstructions at night. There is no, repeat no, reason a bicyclist shouldn't wish for lamps at least the equivalent of those on a European (not American) motorcar. To argue contrarily, as Kreepy Krygo does, is to concede in advance that cyclist have less claim to the road -- and to safety -- than motorists.
***

And here the wretched Krygowski IS screeching "Danger! Danger!" This the same ******, the same Krygowski, who for each lamp Busch und Muller ever made claimed it was adequate for cyclists, and abused everyone who had their brains in gear and reported what their eyes could see, that the lamps were lethals. And here, below, and in other posts in this thread, the dumb cluck Krygowski does indeed concede that a cyclist doesn't have an innate right to cast the same light on the road as a motorist.

Just as i predicted.

Andre Jute
Thanks Franki-boy: you put a few bucks in my pocket from bets with my poker school, fellow professionals, that I can predict what you will say.


On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:48:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/8/2019 4:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by
any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter
of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I
built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these
many years ago.

snip

Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed
to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety.

The "Danger! Danger!" Safety Inflation contingent defines "most
effective in terms of illumination and safety" to be something like
this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RU...ture=youtu..be
Their standard is simple: As long as something brighter exists, nothing
else is safe enough.

"sms" AKA Scharf seems to fantasize that the German government enacted
design requirements in an effort to kill cyclists. But instead, the
StVZO requirements are intended to give cyclists adequate visibility and
road illumination without blinding others. Of course, those with either
"Danger! Danger!" paranoia or MFFY attitudes don't care about that.

Also, notice the very obvious "hot spot" directly in front of that
cyclist at about 0.33 in that video. That's what you get with headlights
with kindergarten optics, which means pretty much anything not
qualifying for StVZO. The hot spot tends to blind the cyclist using the
light. Your eyes adjust for the intense brightness of that spot, thus
are stopped down too far to see into the relatively darker areas beyond.

Properly designed road vehicle optics are very similar for bicycles,
cars, trucks or motorcycles. The portion of the beam pointing downward
should be dimmer since it illuminates the road very close to the
operator and has less distance to travel. Portions of the beam pointed
further forward should gradually increase in brightness, and the portion
pointing furthest down the road should be brightest. Above that should
be a cutoff, sending enough light to be seen by, but not so much as to
glare in others' eyes. The result of this is very uniform road
illumination, easiest on the eyes and best for showing road obstacles.

And ANY headlight beam that adequately illuminates the road is EASILY
visible to other road users. "I gotta blind people to be seen" is just
stupid.

The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries
such a mode would not be legal.

The main root cause for Cyo lacking a modulated mode is that only one
nutty California politician thinks it needs one.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I tried using those little very bright mini-flashlights with a handlebar mount. Well that was certainly a bad idea. I finally got a headlight that was much dimmer but had a wide enough focus that I could see the ground for several bike lengths. This allowed me to actually see where I was going on the dark streets.

I get that, Tom. I run BUMM Cyo lamps on all my bike, driven by hub dynamos. They're the best lamps you can currently buy short of going for expensive boutique lamps. (That doesn't mean they're good enough, though I suspect such subtlety is over Krygowski's head.) But I have resigned myself to cluttering up my bike with two lamps front and rear, one steady lamp from BUMM, plus another lamp for flashing duties. I used a short li-ion rechargeable torch with multiple modes on a fish mouth mount to the front, and to the back a Cateye TL-1100 which is the strongest rear flasher I know of, visible in daylight, but I use both blinkies only in daylight as my steady lamps are good enough for visibility and a flashing light, besides perhaps blinding a motorist with unfortunate side effects, at night has the psychological effect of causing people to turn towards it, especially if they are tired and inobservant.

My ideal blinkie would be a single high-power lamp showing red to one side and white to the other side, to be mounted on the seat tube facing downwards to the road, to light up the cyclist by reflection from the road, in other words not aimed at motorists at all.

Andre Jute
"If you have lamps on your bike at all, you're the enemy of cyclists because you confirm the misconception which keeps Joe Public from cycling: that cycling is a dangerous pastime." Now who said that?

I live in a housing area surrounded by trucking firms. When I had to go to the medical lab to **** in a bottle at 6:30 in the morning in the winter one nice thing about those really bright blinkies was that trucks would give you very wide berth. So they were very good for that. But the battery life was very short.

On 4/11/2019 8:49 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/10/2019 11:50 AM, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 9/4/19 1:55 am, jbeattie wrote:


It's not nutty at all. Cars have high beams which, of course, do not
have cut-off. Hard beam cut off is a bad thing in undulating terrain
with no ambient light sources, and reaching down to tilt up your
StVZO light and tilt it down doesn't make a lot of sense. There are
a lot of places I would like a high beam and a lot of places where
high beams should be outlawed, just like for motorists on the road.

Yes, there are times a high beam light would be handy, though not
perhaps essential. I can drive my car at night on unlit roads without
using high beam lights. I just drive slower. Sometimes I have to dip
my high beam lights on approach to corners and such where there are
highly reflective signs. I find the reflected light dazzles me.


One of my headlight assemblies had yellowed out so much that I wanted to
replace it. If I went to Ford I would have to buy both assemblies at
once and it would cost $400. I bought the driver's side for $68 and it
was made in China. What a pain in the ass!. First of all, there were a
couple of metal clips for holding the wiring assembly into a particular
position. These had to be broken to remove. Then the headlamp holding
assembly turned out to be different and they didn't tell you until I
noticed that there was an extra "nut" installed. Removing it I
discovered I had to pull the headlight off of the wiring plug in order
to remove the stock "nut" and then install the new one. Finally got that
to work. Then there is a large cone shaped mechanism that makes the
headlight a water-tight seal. That did not assemble correctly because it
appears that the depth of the hook is slightly different. Finally got
the damn thing figured out and test it and the headlight had been damaged on the r
emoval-reinstallation process. I suppose they age harden the glass around the filament.

I drove up to the auto parts store and got a new headlight. Got home and
installed it and now the turn signal didn't work - I had tested it when
I tested the headlight and it was fine. So BACK up to the auto parts
store and I bought a couple of new turn signal lights. These things,
like the headlights, come in dozens of different sizes. Since they are
all 12 VDC you'd think that they would have standardized them decades ago.

Back home, reassembled everything and since there were no more of those
little harness clips I just placed the harness in about the correct
position. All worked and it only took me 4 hours to do what a trained
mechanic could have done in 30 minutes with Ford Parts for only 5 times what I paid.



Which is better, Chinese car lamp lenses or Chinese carbon
wheels?

p.s. Everything in life is a choice. Mine are under $10,
change in two minutes:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wag-h5006/overview/


Those old 7" sealed beam headlights were ****. Bosch halogens (with the
asymmetrical beam pattern) blew those right out of the water.

And the main difference was the optics. The same difference that some
people here disparage in bike headlights.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 4:08:47 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 4:21:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 12:39:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/10/2019 3:15 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:16:18 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/8/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a
bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99
Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon
has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable
Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical
Adapter for a mere $122.95.

Dual, not duel.

One key thing to look for in bicycle lights is the optics. Many bicycle
lights lack proper optics because they're designed to meet StVZO
standards rather than being designed to properly illuminate the road
sufficiently far ahead, as well as things like street signs. You
definitely want some side and upward spill but not so much that it
blinds oncoming cyclists. It looks like the Nitecore did a very good job
of using proper optics for each beam.

And what is "sufficiently far ahead"? What I see is bicycles traveling
at about 20 - 25 kph, on the average. That is 12 - 15 MPH with
occasional chap whizzing by at 30 kph - 18 MPH.

I am aware that many folks can ride faster than that but can they
average a much higher for, say a 3 - 4 hour ride.

But lets call it 20 mph which is 29 FPS... ( That just happens to be
the length of my living room ) so how many living rooms do you need to
see ahead of you? Two or three? More, lets say 5 seconds, that is 146
feet, or 48 yards which is 4.9 living rooms. Good Lord! People can run
that distance in about 5 seconds and you on a 11 speed bicycle?

As I recently mentioned: During the evening ride I took about two or
three days ago, I noticed again that my B&M Eyc (StVZO) headlight
powered by my bottle dynamo was brightly lighting up stop signs, etc.
almost a quarter mile from me. (Google maps shows it as a bit over 0.2
miles.) That means my light rays traveled 0.4 miles from my headlight to
the sign and back to my eye and were _very_ noticeable. For a motorist
0.2 miles away, those light rays would be far more noticeable. I've
confirmed this with the help of friends and family.

Please note that the Eyc headlight is tiny, much smaller than a Cyo. The
Cyo does an even better job.

Scharf has promulgated this myth that StVZO lights are invisible, or
inadequate, or whatever. Maybe there are some bad ones, but certainly
not the ones I own.

As to John's question about seeing [the road] ahead of you: While it's
probably more subjective, this light has been fine for me at 25 mph
downhill. That's as fast as I ever ride at night. The concentration of
light into a bright band just below the cutoff sends that light way down
the road. Just as with your car's headlights.

Well, a quarter of a mile is 1320 ft. and 20 miles per hour is 29
ft5/sec so your quarter mile lights illuminate a length of road that
it will take you 3/4 of a minute to travel..... is this necessary to
safely ride at night?

Or might it be called over kill?
--
cheers,

John B.

I don't see any necessity for any vision further ahead than a couple of seconds at the maximum speed you intend to ride. But this can vary.

"Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed, deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake (remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more.. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds."

On the Tuesday ride there was a dark patch ahead of me and I could not make out what it was and so rode through it. It was the top layer of asphalt missing and a 2" deep pothole about 7' long. The hit at the far end sort of frightened me since I still don't have total confidence in my Chinese tubeless carbon rims. Though I am starting to relax in cross winds since the wheels only react like normal wheels. However THAT ignores that fact that even with shallow rims you have to be careful with speed in gusty winds.

You want to consider that cyclists, at least judging by RBT, are not spring chickens, and reflexes inevitably slow with age. On the other hand, most of the people here seem to be active athletes, regardless of age, and activity is one way to preserve reflexes to the maximum amount possible.

Also, if you have two seconds of visibility, or less, that's as good as riding in the dark because whatever you can see in that space doesn't leave enough time to react. So many people here claim to ride at 25mph that at least some of them probably do touch 25mph occasionally on the level. And of course there are always downhills: I routinely exceed 50kph downhill and want lamps that will leave me reaction time at that speed. In your two seconds at 50kph the cyclist is passing through 90ft. My reaction time is still between 3/4 and 1 second, most likely faster than anyone here unless we have some silent professional athletes under 40, so by the time one second has passed, I'll be 45 further on before I can react.

Of course, where I ride it will make no difference at all because there are very few straight stretches of road long enough. The speeds I can attain depends more on thorough knowledge of the road than on visibility. The time I sped around a curve on a tiny country lane in the hour before dawn and had a monster crash where I expected road and a tractor or big truck or harvester had crumbled the critical inch of tarmac straight into the ditch, and me after it, all the lamps in the world would not have saved me because visibility around the set of sharp corners was thirty or forty feet, and I was depending on my knowledge of the road on a run I had made hundreds, perhaps thousands of times, each time to within an inch of the (suddenly non-existent) edge of the road, not on my lamps.

Andre Jute
Balloon tyres can sometimes make up for what you can't see and react to

MAndre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 4:08:47 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 4:21:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 12:39:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/10/2019 3:15 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:16:18 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/8/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a
bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99
Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon
has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable
Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical
Adapter for a mere $122.95.

Dual, not duel.

One key thing to look for in bicycle lights is the optics. Many bicycle
lights lack proper optics because they're designed to meet StVZO
standards rather than being designed to properly illuminate the road
sufficiently far ahead, as well as things like street signs. You
definitely want some side and upward spill but not so much that it
blinds oncoming cyclists. It looks like the Nitecore did a very good job
of using proper optics for each beam.

And what is "sufficiently far ahead"? What I see is bicycles traveling
at about 20 - 25 kph, on the average. That is 12 - 15 MPH with
occasional chap whizzing by at 30 kph - 18 MPH.

I am aware that many folks can ride faster than that but can they
average a much higher for, say a 3 - 4 hour ride.

But lets call it 20 mph which is 29 FPS... ( That just happens to be
the length of my living room ) so how many living rooms do you need to
see ahead of you? Two or three? More, lets say 5 seconds, that is 146
feet, or 48 yards which is 4.9 living rooms. Good Lord! People can run
that distance in about 5 seconds and you on a 11 speed bicycle?

As I recently mentioned: During the evening ride I took about two or
three days ago, I noticed again that my B&M Eyc (StVZO) headlight
powered by my bottle dynamo was brightly lighting up stop signs, etc.
almost a quarter mile from me. (Google maps shows it as a bit over 0.2
miles.) That means my light rays traveled 0.4 miles from my headlight to
the sign and back to my eye and were _very_ noticeable. For a motorist
0.2 miles away, those light rays would be far more noticeable. I've
confirmed this with the help of friends and family.

Please note that the Eyc headlight is tiny, much smaller than a Cyo. The
Cyo does an even better job.

Scharf has promulgated this myth that StVZO lights are invisible, or
inadequate, or whatever. Maybe there are some bad ones, but certainly
not the ones I own.

As to John's question about seeing [the road] ahead of you: While it's
probably more subjective, this light has been fine for me at 25 mph
downhill. That's as fast as I ever ride at night. The concentration of
light into a bright band just below the cutoff sends that light way down
the road. Just as with your car's headlights.

Well, a quarter of a mile is 1320 ft. and 20 miles per hour is 29
ft5/sec so your quarter mile lights illuminate a length of road that
it will take you 3/4 of a minute to travel..... is this necessary to
safely ride at night?

Or might it be called over kill?
--
cheers,

John B.

I don't see any necessity for any vision further ahead than a couple of
seconds at the maximum speed you intend to ride. But this can vary.

"Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed,
deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake
(remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary
greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3
seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds."

On the Tuesday ride there was a dark patch ahead of me and I could not
make out what it was and so rode through it. It was the top layer of
asphalt missing and a 2" deep pothole about 7' long. The hit at the far
end sort of frightened me since I still don't have total confidence in
my Chinese tubeless carbon rims. Though I am starting to relax in cross
winds since the wheels only react like normal wheels. However THAT
ignores that fact that even with shallow rims you have to be careful
with speed in gusty winds.

You want to consider that cyclists, at least judging by RBT, are not
spring chickens, and reflexes inevitably slow with age. On the other
hand, most of the people here seem to be active athletes, regardless of
age, and activity is one way to preserve reflexes to the maximum amount possible.

Also, if you have two seconds of visibility, or less, that's as good as
riding in the dark because whatever you can see in that space doesn't
leave enough time to react. So many people here claim to ride at 25mph
that at least some of them probably do touch 25mph occasionally on the
level. And of course there are always downhills: I routinely exceed 50kph
downhill and want lamps that will leave me reaction time at that speed.
In your two seconds at 50kph the cyclist is passing through 90ft. My
reaction time is still between 3/4 and 1 second, most likely faster than
anyone here unless we have some silent professional athletes under 40, so
by the time one second has passed, I'll be 45 further on before I can react.

Of course, where I ride it will make no difference at all because there
are very few straight stretches of road long enough. The speeds I can
attain depends more on thorough knowledge of the road than on visibility.
The time I sped around a curve on a tiny country lane in the hour before
dawn and had a monster crash where I expected road and a tractor or big
truck or harvester had crumbled the critical inch of tarmac straight into
the ditch, and me after it, all the lamps in the world would not have
saved me because visibility around the set of sharp corners was thirty or
forty feet, and I was depending on my knowledge of the road on a run I
had made hundreds, perhaps thousands of times, each time to within an
inch of the (suddenly non-existent) edge of the road, not on my lamps.

Andre Jute
Balloon tyres can sometimes make up for what you can't see and react to


Most of my riding in the dark is commuting which is on the flat and a heavy
bike, speeds between 10-20mph even so having a light that can light up the
road a fair old way makes for much easier commuting, on the odd dark gravel
rides it’s ok up to about 30mph but your reaching its limit. Which makes
sense since at speed braking distance is claimed 75ft which on a good day
you might better, on a bad day less etc.

Roger Merriman

On 4/10/2019 12:20 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

I can't argue with your specialized needs, but how many folks are
riding around in the boonies in the dark?

"The boonies" can vary. I can be on an unlit multi-use path, that is
extremely dark, that is just a few hundred feet from a well lit freeway
but shielded by a tree canopy.

I think that to most riders, the key issue is that the light needs to
have the proper optics for the kind of riding that they do, and be of
sufficient brightness for the kind of riding that they do.

I know that some people disparage having proper bicycle light optics
because they are so invested in dynamo lights which necessarily have to
focus their very limited light output to the patch of road directly in
front of the bicycle. What they apparently don't comprehend is that
these dynamo optics are, necessarily, a big compromise.

However for those of us that use our bicycles for commuting, as
"transportational cyclists" having good lights with proper optics is an
absolute necessity. We need to see a good distance ahead. We need to be
able to see street signs and low-hanging tree limbs. We want to have a
flashing or modulation mode for daytime riding because we believe that
global warming is real, believe that Earth isn't flat, and believe the
studies that show DRLs have a measurable benefit.

All the lights on display at Sea Otter, and there must have been ten
different companies displaying high-end lights, are focused (no pun
intended) on optics as well as having sufficient lumens. There wasn't a
single dynamo light to be found except on a few of the bicycles on
display at the Brompton, Dahon, and Breezer booths. I think that they
all had SP dynamos.

I have a Dahon dynamo wheel on my Dahon Speed TR. The wheel has an SP
Dynamo. I have what is probably the second-best dynamo light on the
market in terms of optics, but I still have a backup battery powered
light a) for a flashing DRL, and b) for unlit MUP riding; it's a good
combination. Note that even Frank went out and bought one of Barry
Beam's lights https://www.barrybeams.com/ after realizing that he
needed more than just a dynamo light in order to ride safely at night.

Personally I prefer "all-in-one" battery powered lights, with the light,
battery, and switch all in one unit. What I look for is the following:

1. Optimized beam for cycling with sufficient top and side spill
2. Integrated battery and switch
3. 1500 lumens or more
4. Multi-LED
5. Extra mounts available so you can use the same light on multiple bicycles
6. = $100

The lights I've found that meet these criteria a
Lezyne Deca Drive 1500i: $85 from Probikekit.com
https://www.probikekit.com/11509380.html
Gaciron V9D-1600: $56 from AliExpress https://aliexpi.com/nKZd

I'm sure that there are more than just these two.

I can probably convince someone to spend $56 on a bicycle light, even if
they only ride at night occasionally. Convincing them to spend $400+ on
a high end dynamo light plus a new wheel with a high-end dynamo would be
very difficult. Yes, it's nice to not have to worry about charging
batteries. But people have become so used to charging their mobile
phone, their watch, their iPad, etc., that I think it's less of a big
deal than in the past.

On Friday, April 12, 2019 at 5:09:50 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
MAndre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 4:08:47 PM UTC+1, wrote:

I don't see any necessity for any vision further ahead than a couple of
seconds at the maximum speed you intend to ride. But this can vary.

"Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed,
deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake
(remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary
greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3
seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds."

On the Tuesday ride there was a dark patch ahead of me and I could not
make out what it was and so rode through it. It was the top layer of
asphalt missing and a 2" deep pothole about 7' long. The hit at the far
end sort of frightened me since I still don't have total confidence in
my Chinese tubeless carbon rims. Though I am starting to relax in cross
winds since the wheels only react like normal wheels. However THAT
ignores that fact that even with shallow rims you have to be careful
with speed in gusty winds.

You want to consider that cyclists, at least judging by RBT, are not
spring chickens, and reflexes inevitably slow with age. On the other
hand, most of the people here seem to be active athletes, regardless of
age, and activity is one way to preserve reflexes to the maximum amount possible.

Also, if you have two seconds of visibility, or less, that's as good as
riding in the dark because whatever you can see in that space doesn't
leave enough time to react. So many people here claim to ride at 25mph
that at least some of them probably do touch 25mph occasionally on the
level. And of course there are always downhills: I routinely exceed 50kph
downhill and want lamps that will leave me reaction time at that speed.
In your two seconds at 50kph the cyclist is passing through 90ft. My
reaction time is still between 3/4 and 1 second, most likely faster than
anyone here unless we have some silent professional athletes under 40, so
by the time one second has passed, I'll be 45 further on before I can react.

Of course, where I ride it will make no difference at all because there
are very few straight stretches of road long enough. The speeds I can
attain depends more on thorough knowledge of the road than on visibility.
The time I sped around a curve on a tiny country lane in the hour before
dawn and had a monster crash where I expected road and a tractor or big
truck or harvester had crumbled the critical inch of tarmac straight into
the ditch, and me after it, all the lamps in the world would not have
saved me because visibility around the set of sharp corners was thirty or
forty feet, and I was depending on my knowledge of the road on a run I
had made hundreds, perhaps thousands of times, each time to within an
inch of the (suddenly non-existent) edge of the road, not on my lamps.

Andre Jute
Balloon tyres can sometimes make up for what you can't see and react to


Most of my riding in the dark is commuting which is on the flat and a heavy
bike, speeds between 10-20mph even so having a light that can light up the
road a fair old way makes for much easier commuting, on the odd dark gravel
rides it’s ok up to about 30mph but your reaching its limit. Which makes
sense since at speed braking distance is claimed 75ft which on a good day
you might better, on a bad day less etc.

Roger Merriman

Exactly.

I've found in my lanes even at much more modest speeds, say up to 15kph, that being able to see new potholes within reaction time puts a lot less stress on the bike because you can post (lift your bum off the seat, go light over the pedals) as you ride through them. That wasn't a joke above about the balloon tyres: I routinely ride through potholes because all alternatives are worse. So the balloon tyres become part of a system which includes the lamps. And I strongly suspect that, even with today's LEDs and advanced optics, the lamps are still the weak link.

BTW, if a cyclist's reaction time is as slow as the 3s mentioned in Tom's quote. he'd better stay out of traffic, because he'll be a menace to himself and others.

Andre Jute
The thighbone is connected to the...

On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:21:34 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:
Let the games begin!!!

I ride the IQ-X as it was cheaper by a fair mark than the Edelux, and
it's by far and away the best of many dynamo lights I've used, if
eye-wateringly expensive.

Any Edelux users out there? Anybody tried both?

I've got the Edelux II on two bikes, the "reversed" version that hangs
under my front rack. They're excellent.

Photos of the beams of various lamps:

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.php

On 4/12/2019 7:30 PM, sms wrote:

I think that to most riders, the key issue is that the light needs to
have the proper optics for the kind of riding that they do, and be of
sufficient brightness for the kind of riding that they do.

That's perfectly reasonable. What's not reasonable are your incessant
claims that lights must be used in all conditions, day or night; that
lights that illuminate the roadway properly while not blinding others
are inadequate. Oh, and that it's unsafe to ride without a light
specifically designed to spotlight tree branches five feet above the road.

I know that some people disparage having proper bicycle light optics
because they are so invested in dynamo lights which necessarily have to
focus their very limited light output to the patch of road directly in
front of the bicycle.

Bull****. My dynamo light illuminates road signs nearly a quarter mile
in front of me.

What they apparently don't comprehend is that
these dynamo optics are, necessarily, a big compromise.

My best dynamo headlights produce the same sort of road illumination as
my car's headlights.

However for those of us that use our bicycles for commuting, as
"transportational cyclists" having good lights with proper optics is an
absolute necessity.

Good lights with proper optics are what I use.
See https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.php

We need to see a good distance ahead.

Yes. As I said, my B&M Eyc and Cyos illuminate road signs nearly a
quarter mile away.

We need to be
able to see street signs and low-hanging tree limbs.

Such a weird fixation on tree limbs! For me, it's not a jungle out there!

We want to have a
flashing or modulation mode for daytime riding because we believe that
global warming is real, believe that Earth isn't flat, and believe the
studies that show DRLs have a measurable benefit.

Your "study" has been torn apart here (and elsewhere) by multiple
posters and reviewers.

But you've never explained why you eschew the "measurable benefit" of
six-foot-tall bicycle warning flags.

Note that even Frank went out and bought one of Barry
Beam's lights https://www.barrybeams.com/ after realizing that he
needed more than just a dynamo light in order to ride safely at night.

Such a blatant lie!

I bought it to only review it, having been given a discount for that
purpose. I've used it only to test it, on a maximum of four rides. It's
been sitting in a drawer since then. On every night ride since then I've
used my normal LED dynamo lights.

The Oculus light's for sale if someone else wants to try it. I'll
re-post my review if anyone's curious.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 7:30 PM, sms wrote:
Snipped
Note that even Frank went out and bought one of Barry
Beam's lights https://www.barrybeams.com/ after realizing that he
needed more than just a dynamo light in order to ride safely at night.

Such a blatant lie!

I bought it to only review it, having been given a discount for that
purpose. I've used it only to test it, on a maximum of four rides. It's
been sitting in a drawer since then. On every night ride since then I've
used my normal LED dynamo lights.

The Oculus light's for sale if someone else wants to try it. I'll
re-post my review if anyone's curious.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, pleas repost that review.

Cheers