Merry Christmas* to y'all.

Merry Christmas* to y'all.

*Sheldon sez: Null where limited, illegal where permitted, no sales taxes, no returns, retractible where politically incorrect, offer not applicable with any other religion

WTH ?

On Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:43:00 PM UTC-5, datakoll wrote:
WTH ?

WTH WTH ? ITS XMASS TIME IN CALIFORNIA...

I wuz gonna get Brandt a 36 tooth aluminum cog but this is the gift

http://martinjetpack.com/

On Dec 23, 3:32*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Merry Christmas* to y'all.

*Sheldon sez: Null where limited, illegal where permitted, no sales taxes, no returns, retractible where politically incorrect, offer not applicable with any other religion

Thank you Andre. Tech content: I went for a three hour ride in the
rain with some friends -- one of whom had an arm on an FSA two-piece
crank come lose, which is now an easy fix with a pocket wrench. I
assume the bolts hadn't been adequately torqued, but who knows. My
best riding buddy was on his Volagi http://volagi.com/bikes/liscio%C2%B2-rival
A new take on the old sport bike, this time with discs. Neat bike with
fender clearance. His brakes were doing this oscillating two-tone
squeal just like a European ambulance siren. My discs were squealing,
too, and getting that slight ticking that indicates that it is already
time for new pads -- but our braking was a lot better than the two
other guys riding cantis. The most popular rain jacket was the
Showers Pass. Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc. Frame
materials were CF and aluminum. All of this hand wringing about there
being no sport bikes capable of accommodating reasonably fat tires and
fenders makes no sense to me. There is more variety now than ever.

These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically
buy whatever they want and often have odd products that never made it
in to full production -- usually for good reason.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Dec 23, 8:01*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
... My
best riding buddy was on his Volagihttp://volagi.com/bikes/liscio%C2%B2-rival
A new take on the old sport bike, this time with discs. Neat bike with
fender clearance. *His brakes were doing this oscillating two-tone
squeal just like a European ambulance siren. My discs were squealing,
too, and getting that slight ticking that indicates that it is already
time for new pads ...

Just curious: How soon did "already" come? How long have your pads
lasted?

-- but our braking was a lot better than the two
other guys riding cantis. *The most popular rain jacket was the
Showers Pass. Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc.

That's not surprising, for people who don't keep old bikes, and are
willing to have bikes dedicated to special shoes. Fine for those who
make those choices.

Frame
materials were CF and aluminum. *All of this hand wringing about there
being no sport bikes capable of accommodating reasonably fat tires and
fenders makes no sense to me. There is more variety now than ever.

I don't think anyone's been saying that it's impossible to buy bikes
with clearance for fat tires and fenders. However, I do think that
lots of people are being steered away from that choice, by never even
being told the choice exists, or that there may be value to that
choice.

There sure are a lot of bikes being sold where a 28mm tire barely
clears even with no fender. And why? What's the advantage?

These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically
buy whatever they want...

That used to happen around here, before Arni Nashbar sold out to his
competition and they closed the local facilities. :-(

Ah well. Merry Christmas!

- Frank Krygowski

On 24/12/12 10:32, Andre Jute wrote:
Merry Christmas* to y'all.

*Sheldon sez: Null where limited, illegal where permitted, no sales
taxes, no returns, retractible where politically incorrect, offer not
applicable with any other religion

Lucky you're not a follower of the Muslim faith...

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/no-merrine...222-2bsk2.html

What will they think of next?

Merry Christmas, and have a happy new year!

--
JS.

On 12/23/2012 7:01 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:32 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Merry Christmas* to y'all.

*Sheldon sez: Null where limited, illegal where permitted, no sales taxes, no returns, retractible where politically incorrect, offer not applicable with any other religion

Thank you Andre. Tech content: I went for a three hour ride in the
rain with some friends -- one of whom had an arm on an FSA two-piece
crank come lose, which is now an easy fix with a pocket wrench. I
assume the bolts hadn't been adequately torqued, but who knows. My
best riding buddy was on his Volagi http://volagi.com/bikes/liscio%C2%B2-rival
A new take on the old sport bike, this time with discs. Neat bike with
fender clearance. His brakes were doing this oscillating two-tone
squeal just like a European ambulance siren. My discs were squealing,
too, and getting that slight ticking that indicates that it is already
time for new pads -- but our braking was a lot better than the two
other guys riding cantis. The most popular rain jacket was the
Showers Pass. Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc. Frame
materials were CF and aluminum. All of this hand wringing about there
being no sport bikes capable of accommodating reasonably fat tires and
fenders makes no sense to me. There is more variety now than ever.

These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically
buy whatever they want and often have odd products that never made it
in to full production -- usually for good reason.


At dawn I dumped my bike while crossing a nearly-plowed
intersection to get the paper. Drat! Wheel no turn!I
despaired that I had finally wrecked my much-bashed rear
rim. But after I carried it the rest of the way to work,
there was merely a big ice chunk jammed between tire and
mudguard. phew! Espresso and the Trib is a better morning
than a new rim.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Dec 23, 5:31*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:01*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

... My
best riding buddy was on his Volagihttp://volagi.com/bikes/liscio%C2%B2-rival
A new take on the old sport bike, this time with discs. Neat bike with
fender clearance. *His brakes were doing this oscillating two-tone
squeal just like a European ambulance siren. My discs were squealing,
too, and getting that slight ticking that indicates that it is already
time for new pads ...

Just curious: *How soon did "already" come? *How long have your pads
lasted?

I have to check whether it was the front or rear -- if front, just a
couple of months. If rear, a lot longer. I don't know how long. Disc
pads do not last as long as rim brake pads, but the rims last a lot
longer -- like forever, or until smashed on a train track or what have
you.


-- but our braking was a lot better than the two
other guys riding cantis. *The most popular rain jacket was the
Showers Pass. Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc.

That's not surprising, for people who don't keep old bikes, and are
willing to have bikes dedicated to special shoes. *Fine for those who
make those choices.

It's the only reasonable choice for sport riding and racing,
particularly since clips beat up shoe covers and clips alone don't
really do the job when riding hard. The people I ride with are all
"serious" -- everyone races except me and one other, and the two of us
still have to keep up. The last thing I want to be doing is fiddling
around trying to get my shoes in a clip and then worrying about
pulling out. Every time I slam in to my SPDs, I think of the arguments
we have had here . . . and confirm for myself that a two sided SPD is
way faster to get in to that a one-sided, clipped pedal.


Frame
materials were CF and aluminum. *All of this hand wringing about there
being no sport bikes capable of accommodating reasonably fat tires and
fenders makes no sense to me. There is more variety now than ever.

I don't think anyone's been saying that it's impossible to buy bikes
with clearance for fat tires and fenders. *However, I do think that
lots of people are being steered away from that choice, by never even
being told the choice exists, or that there may be value to that
choice.

You live in a different world than I do. I don't know anyone who is
being steered away from an appropriate bike. We have shops that sell
everything from recumbents to 14lb racing bikes, and in my experience,
the sales people can tell who needs what.

There sure are a lot of bikes being sold where a 28mm tire barely
clears even with no fender. *And why? *What's the advantage?

None, if you don't want a racing bike. That's why every major
manufacturer sells a sport bike. See e.g.
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ossrip_elite/#


These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically
buy whatever they want...

That used to happen around here, before Arni Nashbar sold out to his
competition and they closed the local facilities. *:-(

We have dozens (and dozens) of bicycle shops in the tri-metropolitan
area. Walking distance form my office: Bicycle Gallery, Bike Hub,
West End, Bike Central, Western Bicycle Works, Performance, River City
(over the bridge, but still walkable), Portland Bike Shop,
Recyclery . . . probably some more. I don't know how they all stay in
business. Performance has four bricks and mortar stores in PDX and
'burbs. I buy consumables there, but most of my locally spent money
goes to Universal Cycles -- another internet seller with a bricks and
mortar store. http://www.universalcycles.com/

My friends, though, deal with the companies themselves and not shops,
or they deal with QBP if they don't have a connection to the
manufacturer.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:45:57 PM UTC-5, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 23, 5:31*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Just curious: *How soon did "already" come? *How long have your pads

lasted?



I have to check whether it was the front or rear -- if front, just a

couple of months. If rear, a lot longer.

OK. (Wow.)

Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc.



That's not surprising, for people who don't keep old bikes, and are

willing to have bikes dedicated to special shoes. *Fine for those who

make those choices.



It's the only reasonable choice for sport riding and racing,

Well, maybe for racing. "Sport riding" can have a pretty elastic definition. If I'm on a fast ride with friends and I'm the first one to the top of a one mile climb, is that sport riding? Is it sport riding even if I'm using clips and straps with flat-soled cycling shoes? I think so - even if that incident was five years ago.

Every time I slam in to my SPDs, I think of the arguments

we have had here . . . and confirm for myself that a two sided SPD is

way faster to get in to that a one-sided, clipped pedal.

Oh, I've done the same! On one club ride, I actually counted seconds as one guy absentmindedly tried to snap into his SPDs. Took him roughly 40 seconds, no kidding. Now he was standing and talking, not concentrating on getting that first foot clipped in, but it was interesting to watch. (No, I didn't let him know I was timing him. I haven't talked to anyone in my club about this discussion.)


I don't think anyone's been saying that it's impossible to buy bikes

with clearance for fat tires and fenders. *However, I do think that

lots of people are being steered away from that choice, by never even

being told the choice exists, or that there may be value to that

choice.



You live in a different world than I do.

Well, yes. Your Portland Oregon is known for its uniqueness.

I don't know anyone who is

being steered away from an appropriate bike. We have shops that sell

everything from recumbents to 14lb racing bikes, and in my experience,

the sales people can tell who needs what.

The way it goes in the rest of the world is this, at least a lot of the time: A guy goes into a bike shop. "What kind of bike are you interested in?"

"I want something light, I've got to keep up with my buddy..."

"We've got a special on this Raleigh. Shimano gears, carbon fork absorbs lots of road shock, and it looks like your size. Tell you what, I'll throw in a helmet..." And the bike is sold. Nobody even mentions tire size, fenders, bags beyond a tiny saddle bag.

And the guy shows up on a club ride with 1.5 mm space around his 23mm tire, and asks me if I'll carry his jacket. (OK, it was two different guys, but still...)

I don't doubt that there are some excellent shops that will point out the versatility advantages of wider clearance. But most bike shops seem to operate on pretty slim margins, and lean heavily toward selling what's in stock. And what's in stock is a judicious mix of fairly inexpensive bikes for the neighborhood cruisers / bike path riders, plus a selection of whatever's advertised in Buycycling magazine. And as a reality check, Jay, I doubt that even 3% of American bikes have fenders.


There sure are a lot of bikes being sold where a 28mm tire barely

clears even with no fender. *And why? *What's the advantage?



None, if you don't want a racing bike. That's why every major

manufacturer sells a sport bike. See e.g.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ossrip_elite/#

I'll admit, it seems to be getting a bit better. But most Americans don't know how to ask the right questions, the ones that would lead a dealer to order such a bike in. And the dealers generally don't coach the customers. The objective is to sell.

These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically

buy whatever they want...



That used to happen around here, before Arni Nashbar sold out to his

competition and they closed the local facilities. *:-(



We have dozens (and dozens) of bicycle shops in the tri-metropolitan

area. Walking distance form my office: Bicycle Gallery, Bike Hub,

West End, Bike Central, Western Bicycle Works, Performance, River City

(over the bridge, but still walkable), Portland Bike Shop,

Recyclery . . . probably some more.

And again, that's evidence of Portland's uniqueness. Trust me, that just doesn't happen elsewhere in the U.S. At least, not in the cities I've spent time in.

BTW, I still like CityBikes best in PDX. Maybe there's a touch of communist in me. ;-)

Hey, they sold me the replacement for the lost dust cap for my Lyotard 23 pedal!

- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 24, 3:45*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Dec 23, 5:31*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Dec 23, 8:01*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

... My
best riding buddy was on his Volagihttp://volagi.com/bikes/liscio%C2%B2-rival
A new take on the old sport bike, this time with discs. Neat bike with
fender clearance. *His brakes were doing this oscillating two-tone
squeal just like a European ambulance siren. My discs were squealing,
too, and getting that slight ticking that indicates that it is already
time for new pads ...

Just curious: *How soon did "already" come? *How long have your pads
lasted?

I have to check whether it was the front or rear -- if front, just a
couple of months. *If rear, a lot longer. *I don't know how long. Disc
pads do not last as long as rim brake pads, but the rims last a lot
longer -- like forever, or until smashed on a train track or what have
you.



-- but our braking was a lot better than the two
other guys riding cantis. *The most popular rain jacket was the
Showers Pass. Everybody had SPDs. No clips, friction, etc., etc.

That's not surprising, for people who don't keep old bikes, and are
willing to have bikes dedicated to special shoes. *Fine for those who
make those choices.

It's the only reasonable choice for sport riding and racing,
particularly since clips beat up shoe covers

Fallacy. Ive used nice chrome clips extensively, they have radiused
edges and show no marking on shoes which have been cleaned and
nourished (dubbin, shoe cream or polish).

and clips alone don't
really do the job when riding hard.

I've ridden at a fair crack (25mph) without pulling on the straps.
They are needed for exceptional anaerobic efforts only.

The people I ride with are all
"serious" -- everyone races except me and one other, and the two of us
still have to keep up. *The last thing I want to be doing is fiddling
around trying to get my shoes in a clip and then worrying about
pulling out. Every time I slam in to my SPDs, I think of the arguments
we have had here . . . and confirm for myself that a two sided SPD is
way faster to get in to that a one-sided, clipped pedal.

Nice shiny chrome :-)



Frame
materials were CF and aluminum. *All of this hand wringing about there
being no sport bikes capable of accommodating reasonably fat tires and
fenders makes no sense to me. There is more variety now than ever.

I don't think anyone's been saying that it's impossible to buy bikes
with clearance for fat tires and fenders. *However, I do think that
lots of people are being steered away from that choice, by never even
being told the choice exists, or that there may be value to that
choice.

You live in a different world than I do. *I don't know anyone who is
being steered away from an appropriate bike. We have shops that sell
everything from recumbents to 14lb racing bikes, and in my experience,
the sales people can tell who needs what.



There sure are a lot of bikes being sold where a 28mm tire barely
clears even with no fender. *And why? *What's the advantage?

None, if you don't want a racing bike. *That's why every major
manufacturer sells a sport bike. See e.g.http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...rip/crossrip_e...



These guys are in the industry, so they get pro deals and basically
buy whatever they want...

That used to happen around here, before Arni Nashbar sold out to his
competition and they closed the local facilities. *:-(

We have dozens (and dozens) of bicycle shops in the tri-metropolitan
area. *Walking distance form my office: *Bicycle Gallery, Bike Hub,
West End, Bike Central, Western Bicycle Works, Performance, River City
(over the bridge, but still walkable), Portland Bike Shop,
Recyclery . . . probably some more. I don't know how they all stay in
business. Performance has four bricks and mortar stores in PDX and
'burbs. *I buy consumables there, but most of my locally spent money
goes to Universal Cycles -- another internet seller with a bricks and
mortar store.http://www.universalcycles.com/

My friends, though, deal with the companies themselves and not shops,
or they deal with QBP if they don't have a connection to the
manufacturer.

-- Jay Beattie.