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torque wrench issues



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 30th 17, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default torque wrench issues

On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.


Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.


Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.


Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit
on the way down. Don't try this at home.

https://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworl...vanized-steel/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #32  
Old April 30th 17, 10:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.


Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.


Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit on the way
down. Don't try this at home.


When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the bonfire to watch
them explode - no such effect was ever observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than a pretty big
sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf the amount of zinc vapourised
by a weld run.

  #33  
Old April 30th 17, 10:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default torque wrench issues

On 4/30/2017 4:10 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in
message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow
the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally
have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist
the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't
get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver
solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the
U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in
electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their
death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so
weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.


Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit
on the way down. Don't try this at home.


When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the
bonfire to watch them explode - no such effect was ever
observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than
a pretty big sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf
the amount of zinc vapourised by a weld run.


Well then, besides avoiding cad plate fasteners you ought to
go straighten out the welding textbook industry.

Having actually experienced the effect of burning zinc I
sure won't do that again. YMMV.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #34  
Old April 30th 17, 10:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default torque wrench issues



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 4:10 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in
message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow
the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally
have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist
the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't
get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver
solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the
U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in
electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their
death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so
weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit
on the way down. Don't try this at home.


When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the
bonfire to watch them explode - no such effect was ever
observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than
a pretty big sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf
the amount of zinc vapourised by a weld run.


Well then, besides avoiding cad plate fasteners you ought to go straighten
out the welding textbook industry.

Having actually experienced the effect of burning zinc I sure won't do
that again. YMMV.


The imagination is a wonderous thing.......................

  #35  
Old May 1st 17, 12:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andrew Chaplin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 206
Default torque wrench issues

"Ian Field" wrote in
:

When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the bonfire to
watch them explode - no such effect was ever observed.


Grant Imahara "This is why we can't have nice things. /Grant Imahara
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
  #36  
Old May 1st 17, 02:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default torque wrench issues

On 4/30/2017 5:27 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 4:10 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in
message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow
the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally
have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist
the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't
get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver
solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the
U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in
electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their
death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so
weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit
on the way down. Don't try this at home.

When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the
bonfire to watch them explode - no such effect was ever
observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than
a pretty big sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf
the amount of zinc vapourised by a weld run.


Well then, besides avoiding cad plate fasteners you ought to go
straighten out the welding textbook industry.

Having actually experienced the effect of burning zinc I sure won't do
that again. YMMV.


The imagination is a wonderous thing.......................


True. It can make some people imagine maladies from touching cadmium
plating.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #37  
Old May 1st 17, 03:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default torque wrench issues

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:01:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:vmfqfc17u3012cn5jrkkk4r335ol6r5s8a@4 ax.com...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application. Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have never run
across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that torqing with
"stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction equipment which
may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the threads out of
alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down so far that you
can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the engine case bolts
with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S. Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it) bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling anything plated
with
it!


from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are processed
and high temperatures are generated.


Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle cadmium plated
parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component leads to prevent
oxidation - they used more aggressive fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous - the cadmium is
vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling the sufferer - but
I've heard of a repair technician dropping dead after a couple of years from
fumes using low melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial effluent
containing cadmium into heavily fished costal waters. They even have a name
for the disease - itai itai byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in
their death throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.


I hate to disillusion you but the Japanese word "itai" can be
translated into English as "ouch" and is commonly used in everyday
conversation.

Secondly, the cadmium poisoning you are referring to was specific to
mining in Toyama Prefecture. Not to industry per si.

Thirdly, cadmium plated fasteners are in common use in the U.S. and
have been for generations. In fact AN standard cadmium plated
fasteners are perhaps the most commonly used in the aircraft industry.
  #38  
Old May 1st 17, 03:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default torque wrench issues

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 16:23:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/30/2017 4:10 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in
message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow
the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally
have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist
the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't
get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver
solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the
U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in
electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their
death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so
weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit
on the way down. Don't try this at home.


When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the
bonfire to watch them explode - no such effect was ever
observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than
a pretty big sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf
the amount of zinc vapourised by a weld run.


Well then, besides avoiding cad plate fasteners you ought to
go straighten out the welding textbook industry.

Having actually experienced the effect of burning zinc I
sure won't do that again. YMMV.



Perhaps it is your Italian heritage. The Welder that I carried to the
hospital was named Mineo (although not Sal :-)
  #39  
Old May 1st 17, 03:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default torque wrench issues

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.


Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and reactive metallic
organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes simplex and yet no
one welds galvanize steel a second time.


Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.


A strange statement as every welding course warns against welding or
brazing galvanized steel and every welder (except one) that I have
known over a long period has been aware of the danger.

The "one" I mentioned we carried to the hospital in the back of my
pickup truck.
  #40  
Old May 1st 17, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default torque wrench issues

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.


Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and reactive metallic
organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes simplex and yet no
one welds galvanize steel a second time.


Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.
 




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