Plastic coated cables

On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:11:30 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Tue, 10 May 2016 09:11:15
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 18:20:52 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Mon, 09 May 2016 09:12:17
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Sun, 8 May 2016 08:39:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/8/2016 1:41 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 10:18:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/7/2016 9:26 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:


:Aren't most cables stainless these days? I ride in the rain
ccasionally and my cables never get rusty.

Good ones are. Galvanized are available, and are cheaper. (but if
you're paying someone to do the work, the cost difference is swamped
by the price of labor).

Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.

If you are talking about soldering the end you are poking through the
casing I find that Magic Glue works well.

But I do remember changing the cables on my British Royal Enfield
motorcycle and having to solder the end fitting to the wire and after
you had the cable installed there was a little prayer that you said
just before you squeezed the lever the first time, "Please don't
break" :-)

I recall making a custom straddle cable for a rear center pull brake on
my wife's mixte, many years ago. I wanted to put the brake at the mixte
tubes and behind the seat tube, since that gives a perfect alignment for
the brake cable. It required a very long straddle cable that would pass
around the front of the seat tube. I cut the end buttons out of a steel
rod, drilled them, and soldered the cable with (IIRC) ordinary solder.
It worked fine, and the current owner still uses that setup.

I also recall fabricating a clutch cable for a motorcycle using the same
technique. One tip: The transverse hole through the button should be
countersunk on one end. The cable is inserted in the non-countersunk
end, and the cable wires get un-twisted and splayed out before
soldering, so they're spread out in the countersunk hole. It supposedly
increases the strength of the joint tremendously.

It surely does and by quite a bit.

(I've seen that technique used to anchor the ends of cables before
placing in a tension testing machine, for testing cables to failure.)

That is using a "wedge and sleeve" isn't it? A number of companies use
that approach for rigging wires ranging from yachts to bridges.

It's also used for anchoring replacement ligaments in place through
bones during reconstructive osteopathic surgery.

I thought they just stretched the broken ligament out, stuck it
through the hole that they drilled in the bone, and tied a knot in it.

I don't think they've been using that method for decades now.

Possibly not. I only have personal knowledge of one case where a
Biceps ligament snapped and the guy was in Hungary, maybe 15 years
ago, when it happened and was treated in a local hospital.


The main debate seems to have moved on to the best source of graftable
tissue, along with details of which particular routing to use for each
ligament for the best outcome.
I researched it up quite intensively when I was being evaluated for
PCL reconstruction (with the encouragement of Mr Edwards, my
consultant orthopedic surgeon). It turned out that due to the length
of time since the injury, I was an extremely poor candidate for
surgical reconstruction, with as much chance of a worse outcome as an
improved one (40% worse, 40% better, 20% no change, on the stats at
the time).
That was about 15 years ago, and even then knotting was only mentioned
in passing as an outdated technique. I can't find any reference to it
in current literature at all (although I don't have access to as much
now as I did then). Now all the discussion about anchoring methods I
can find seems to be about the relative merits of different wedge
devices versus bone wedges, with or without additional fixative pegs,
pins, or screws.
Of course, most of what I've read has been with particular reference
to the knee, but then that does seem to be about the most common
ligament reconstruction site. It may be that on less heavily loaded
ligaments, knotting is still used as it is strong enough on it's own.
It's too late for me now anyway - I've lost far too much leg function
for other reasons for it to be worth messing about with.
--
cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: : Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :
: :
: : Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
: :
: :
: :
: : You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also weird.
:
: :Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
: :solder them.
:
: :Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
: :by far.
:
: Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

:I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?

I used a silver solder flux from harris, and a a high silver solder.
(probably Safety-silver 45T, which is a cadmium free solder with a bit
of tin, and 45% silver.) worked fine. This wasn't for a bike, but
for a nutjob's custom throttle cables on a hot rod. Little crimp on
caps would have terribly gauche. 56% silver is easier to work with,
but costs more.


Silver solder is expensive, but you're using
a tiny amount, and an ounce will last a lieftime's worth of cables,
with enough for your grandchildren's.


--
sig 101

On 5/11/2016 8:44 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: : Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :
: :
: : Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
: :
: :
: :
: : You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also weird.
:
: :Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
: :solder them.
:
: :Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
: :by far.
:
: Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

:I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?

I used a silver solder flux from harris, and a a high silver solder.
(probably Safety-silver 45T, which is a cadmium free solder with a bit
of tin, and 45% silver.) worked fine. This wasn't for a bike, but
for a nutjob's custom throttle cables on a hot rod. Little crimp on
caps would have terribly gauche. 56% silver is easier to work with,
but costs more.


Silver solder is expensive, but you're using
a tiny amount, and an ounce will last a lieftime's worth of cables,
with enough for your grandchildren's.

I've actually got some silver solder stashed away somewhere. I'll try
to remember to give that a try next time this comes up.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 11 May 2016 21:13:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 8:44 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/7/2016 10:29 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 5/7/2016 1:54 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
: : Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :
: :
: : Galvanized seem way easier to solder before cutting. I do like that.
: :
: :
: :
: : You prefer galvanized cables because of that? Weird. Solder? Also weird.
:
: :Nope, didn't say I preferred galvanized. I said I like that I can
: :solder them.
:
: :Solder (before cutting) is AFAICT the best way of finishing a cable end,
: :by far.
:
: Silver solder the stainless ones, then.

:I haven't tried that. Has anyone else? Any tips?

I used a silver solder flux from harris, and a a high silver solder.
(probably Safety-silver 45T, which is a cadmium free solder with a bit
of tin, and 45% silver.) worked fine. This wasn't for a bike, but
for a nutjob's custom throttle cables on a hot rod. Little crimp on
caps would have terribly gauche. 56% silver is easier to work with,
but costs more.


Silver solder is expensive, but you're using
a tiny amount, and an ounce will last a lieftime's worth of cables,
with enough for your grandchildren's.

I've actually got some silver solder stashed away somewhere. I'll try
to remember to give that a try next time this comes up.

The flux used to silver braze stainless can cause difficulties. Harris
(one of the better suppliers) makes flux that can be used for almost
any material but other companies make a specific stainless flux.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 7:05:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
All of my bikes have plastic lined brake and shift cable housings
(casings?). I have seen plastic coated cables and wonder whether one
could use a plastic coated cable in a plastic lined cable housing with
the hope of reducing friction.

Generally a plain bearing, which in essence is what a bicycle cable
and housing are, is a hard surface moving on a softer surface and I am
wondering what the results of running a relatively soft plastic coated
cable in a relatively soft plastic lines housing would be.

Does it work? Is it better?

The best working cables are the stainless Shimano or Campy inners and outers.

The cables you're talking of are VERY often cheap steel and they will break apart from over-tightening or rusting. They do make some higher quality stuff but I've never been able to discern how to tell the difference until I had them in my hands.

Now Teflon against Teflon is not a problem but some of these cables have a thick layer of Teflon on them and although they feel OK when threading them they barely fit through the outer and I think that this might be a source of people saying their cables seem tight.

On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:15:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 7:05:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
All of my bikes have plastic lined brake and shift cable housings
(casings?). I have seen plastic coated cables and wonder whether one
could use a plastic coated cable in a plastic lined cable housing with
the hope of reducing friction.

Generally a plain bearing, which in essence is what a bicycle cable
and housing are, is a hard surface moving on a softer surface and I am
wondering what the results of running a relatively soft plastic coated
cable in a relatively soft plastic lines housing would be.

Does it work? Is it better?

The best working cables are the stainless Shimano or Campy inners and outers.

The cables you're talking of are VERY often cheap steel and they will break apart from over-tightening or rusting. They do make some higher quality stuff but I've never been able to discern how to tell the difference until I had them in my hands.

Well the cables I was talking about are Shimano outers and likely
inner's although I can't say for sure as I have changed inner's on
most of the bikes.

Now Teflon against Teflon is not a problem but some of these cables have a thick layer of Teflon on them and although they feel OK when threading them they barely fit through the outer and I think that this might be a source of people saying their cables seem tight.
--
cheers,

John B.