Old School tech group members? McNammara, Brandt, Holtman, Muzi,Vecchio, Tomlinson...?

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:30:48 AM UTC-4, User Bp wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

It's been years since we've had a post about a stuck stem,



Well, since time is running out, I'd better ask now 8-)



The stem on my AA Cannondale is stuck. Tried to free it a couple

of years ago (WD-40) but was reluctant to apply large force since

the bike's rideable and I didn't want to break anything.



The fork is original steel, stem is aftermarket alloy, neither have

been disturbed for over twenty years. As I get older, I'd like to

raise the bars a little bit.....



Sidenote, the bike's always been somewhat squirrely; it'll headshake

on a smooth road with no hands and narrow tires fully inflated.

Nothing is discernibly bent. If a new fork might fix this issue I'd

be tempted to solve the problem with a hacksaw. In the meantime I'll

just keep riding it.



Thanks for reading,



bob prohaska

Sometimes, in addition to whatever solution you pour into the fork/stem to break up the crud,tapping the top of the stem with mallet with a piece of hardwood between the stem and mallet will help loosen the stem.

Goocd luck and cheers

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:06:07 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
... If a new fork might fix this issue I'd

be tempted to solve the problem with a hacksaw. In the meantime I'll

just keep riding it.



BTW, Bob, I have a couple of 1" threadless CF forks that I bought 10 yrs ago from chucksbikes.com and never used. One is a Martec M8 and very beefy - IIRC this was sold for tandem or cross use, and the other a Kinetick Kt01. Both are still in bubble-wrap.



The steel bikes I bought these for are long gone and I'm ready to stop hoarding them, so you are welcome to pick up one or both.



Actually, the way I remembered it, both were Martecs, and this page seems to indicate that the Kinetick is actually a Martec M2, FWIW:



http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ec-carbon-fork



Doug

Martec does a lot of OEM work for major manufacturers. Most of its manufacturing is now in China (PRC) as opposed to Taiwan. The old 1" steerer forks might have been produced in Taiwan, if it matters.

I changed out the forks on my old Cannondale because I wanted to lighten it up, get a better stem selection and simpler HS adjustment. Beating in a star nut is a small price to pay for such convenience. I'd hack off the old stem and drop in a new fork. I think Nashbar still has 1" stems or 1 1/8" sold with shims. Another benefit is the 2/4 bolt face plates so you don't have to strip down your bars if you want to experiment with stem length and rise (although you may run out of shift/brake cable length).

-- Jay Beattie.

I arrived before the Lance Era, before Utube. Posted this while Google was upset with posting AREA 51 in alt.politics.liberalism.

With the passing of Brandt, Lance, and Brown, ascendance of 'games' and Utube/internet bicycle et al information...and component reliability, design efficacy....print/reading/writing in black and white is no longer popular.

Other successful managed moderated online groups exist some for the financial or psychological benefit of the 'moderator.'

Brown really carried a baggage train of NE riders into RBT while Brandt served as a lightning rod for discussion.

We saw a Utuber show up asking for comments on his utube tutorials.

Other discussion groups show the same trends with an initial high end discussion level falling off after 3-4 years with the new worn off and nothing left to say.

The same trends are in force with commercial print media eg the New York Times and Sea Kayaker magazine recently folding after ? 14 years ?

As a returning adult rider, my specific experience was LBS practiced a guild formation where knowledge was withheld for potential profit. Brown/Brown's software wife/Harris in Wangville largely changed that for our benefit.
....................

Several posters do DIY.

Stuck stems showing a white filling tween moving parts are compounds brought from stem metals with added water and O2. NOT penetrant soluble. What happened was elements dissolved from stem components into the bearing space added the volume of O2 and H2O....a volume larger than the designed bearing area. This new 'grease' is bonded into both bearing surfaces ? the stuff is brittle, sandable, but not soluble in penetrant.

Heat and cold. Probabbbly to a degree where the stem components change characteristics.

And off course

http://goo.gl/2RU8sl

wrote:
Turn the bike upside down. Remove the wheel. pour penetrant in the
hole at the bottom of the stem (center of the fork) On some forks
you can put a punch through the hole, and drive it loose with the
punch. Obviously if yours has no hole, you are out of luck.
I have had some luck with this procedure when dissassembling old
bikes.
The fork crown does indeed have a hole, which I never noticed
until you mentioned it. Putting penetrating oil in there seems
much better than applying it to the upper joint.

The idea of using a punch through the hole is immensely appealing,
how would you gauge the odds of success, based on your experience?
It would be very awkward to wreck the wedge or bolt if the stem
can't be extracted.

Thanks to everybody for writing!

bob prohaska

Doug Landau wrote:

The steel bikes I bought these for are long gone and I'm ready to stop hoarding them, so you are welcome to pick up one or both.

Actually, the way I remembered it, both were Martecs, and this page seems to indicate that the Kinetick is actually a Martec M2, FWIW:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ec-carbon-fork

Much appreciated, but CF in my riding is roughly equivalent to
dressing a cockroach in ermine 8-)

What is a "threadless" fork?

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

The idea of using a punch through the hole is immensely appealing,
how would you gauge the odds of success, based on your experience?
It would be very awkward to wreck the wedge or bolt if the stem

Once again... 1 out of 1 times I tried it, coca-cola -did- work.
What have you got to lose?
1. Remove the bolt, goop up the threads with vaseline, thread it into the hole in the wedge from the bottom, or plug the hole with a wad of vaseline on the end of a chopstick or long qtip, or just tape shut the hole at the bottom of the fork crown, whatever.
2. Pour coke in the top and fill the inside of the stem
3. pour a bit on the outside of the stem and wipe off the headtube.
4. Let sit overnight

Here is someone using a sandwich bag and rubber band to hold the stuff in:
http://fat-bike.com/2012/01/how-to-u...tuck-seatpost/

On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 02:48:12 +0000 (UTC), User Bp
wrote:

wrote:
Turn the bike upside down. Remove the wheel. pour penetrant in the
hole at the bottom of the stem (center of the fork) On some forks
you can put a punch through the hole, and drive it loose with the
punch. Obviously if yours has no hole, you are out of luck.
I have had some luck with this procedure when dissassembling old
bikes.
The fork crown does indeed have a hole, which I never noticed
until you mentioned it. Putting penetrating oil in there seems
much better than applying it to the upper joint.

The idea of using a punch through the hole is immensely appealing,
how would you gauge the odds of success, based on your experience?
It would be very awkward to wreck the wedge or bolt if the stem
can't be extracted.

Thanks to everybody for writing!

bob prohaska
I've had better than 50% success with penetrant and punching from
below. The punch just has to shock the bond to help the penetrant in
to start it moving - then you can twist and pull from the top..
Sometimes you need to tap the stem bolt from the top too in order to
work it loose - back and forth, to and fro. When the penetrant drips
out the top of the headset you know you have a fighting chance. Kroil
would be ideal - I've never had it but have used "ed's red" - and
"mouse milk" works pretty good too. (from Aircraft Spruce). There was
a penetrant handled by the German chemical company -what's it called
--- Wurth that was fantastic - can't remember the name but it was an
ionic penetrant?. Stuff would eat the backside out of a dead skunk
from 50 paces, it was that strong. It's been over 20 years since I
last had any of it - we used it at the toyota dealeship and it got
cadmium plated bolts out of aluminum castings - and you know how nasty
that combination can get in salt country!!.

Turn the bike upside down. Remove the wheel. pour penetrant in the
hole at the bottom of the stem (center of the fork) On some forks
you can put a punch through the hole, and drive it loose with the
punch. Obviously if yours has no hole, you are out of luck.

this method, it seems to me, will attempt to drive both the wedge and the stem to move, since the wedge is already tight up against the bottom of the stem.

Suppose the one were to loosen the bolt until it move upwards a bit, and then tap it down from the top. Using the bolt as the punch. In this case you are trying to free the wedge only.

Furthermore, the wedge is steel, not aluminium, right? So it is not actually cold-welded to the head tube?

Still further, the wedge-to-stem interface is an angle, usually. So by driving the wedge upwards into the stem, it wants to go sideways, and apply the force to the wall of the headtube.

Finally, if you do succeed in moving the wedge downward, at all, then it cannot sit in the way of the coke or whatever and keep it away from the corrosion.

So... is the wedge stuck? If you back off the bolt a turn or two, can you then press it and move the wedge downward with your thumb?

On 3/24/2014 8:32 PM, wrote:

snip

I've had better than 50% success with penetrant and punching from
below. The punch just has to shock the bond to help the penetrant in
to start it moving - then you can twist and pull from the top..
Sometimes you need to tap the stem bolt from the top too in order to
work it loose - back and forth, to and fro. When the penetrant drips
out the top of the headset you know you have a fighting chance. Kroil
would be ideal - I've never had it but have used "ed's red" - and
"mouse milk" works pretty good too. (from Aircraft Spruce). There was
a penetrant handled by the German chemical company -what's it called
--- Wurth that was fantastic - can't remember the name but it was an
ionic penetrant?. Stuff would eat the backside out of a dead skunk
from 50 paces, it was that strong. It's been over 20 years since I
last had any of it - we used it at the toyota dealeship and it got
cadmium plated bolts out of aluminum castings - and you know how nasty
that combination can get in salt country!!.

Kroil is easily available in the U.S. but Wurth 2040 is not. Not sure if
one of the Wurth U.S.A. products is equivalent to Wurth 2040 from Europe.

As you said, the penetrant needs some way to start getting in and
hopefully punching will do it.

Doug Landau wrote:
The idea of using a punch through the hole is immensely appealing,
how would you gauge the odds of success, based on your experience?
It would be very awkward to wreck the wedge or bolt if the stem

Once again... 1 out of 1 times I tried it, coca-cola -did- work.
What have you got to lose?
1. Remove the bolt, goop up the threads with vaseline, thread it into the
hole in the wedge from the bottom, or plug the hole with a wad of
vaseline on the end of a chopstick or long qtip, or just tape shut the
hole at the bottom of the fork crown, whatever.
2. Pour coke in the top and fill the inside of the stem
3. pour a bit on the outside of the stem and wipe off the headtube.
4. Let sit overnight

Here is someone using a sandwich bag and rubber band to hold the stuff in:
http://fat-bike.com/2012/01/how-to-u...tuck-seatpost/

Fresca may work better. Working as a mech helper in a Coke plant as a kid
we used to use that to degrease the shop floors.
--
duane