Benefits of tubular tires?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 9:04:49 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:03:53 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:

People who prefer tubs ride tubs (I among them) and those



who prefer clinchers ride those. Since I can't quantify the



feel of tubs it must not exist, right?







Well, you certainly can't feel the difference in frame material, 'cuz
the vertical compliance of the diamond frame is nil for all three*







ducking for coverSorry, all, couldn't resist.







-dkl







*Four if you count bamboo.



I can feel the difference between tubulars and clinchers (or could when
I used both). Apart from weight, though, I really wonder if there is an
appreciable difference between a good tubular and modern top-quality
clincher at normal pressures. I'm sure the clincher would have a lower
RR (e.g. http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html), but I
don't know if it would feel as supple. It would probably be very close,
especially if the clincher were on a 23mm rim. The clincher would
certainly beat the living daylights out of the every-day tubulars I used
in the '70s, e.g. Clement Elvezia and crap tires from Mexico and the
old Soviet Union that looked like they were made out of rubber garden
hose and gauze bandages. Those were barely better than my Michelin 50 clinchers.



-- Jay Beattie.

I too can feel a difference when riding tubulars.

Something interesting I've noticed when reading about tubular tires and
their perceived benefits is that some writers say tubulars are great
because you can run them at higher pressure than clinchers but other
writers say tubulars are better because you can run tubulars at lower
pressure than clinchers and without the same risk of pinch flats.

Cheers

If you want to run with lower pressure you can get a 23mm rim.

It's been a long time since I've used tubulars but with today's tires I
don't see that the cost/benefit ratio makes sense.
--
duane

?

Je ne sais pas

no sabe

GooTrans INSTANTLY off corse which is immediately impressive gives je ne from no sabe AND allows a shifting back n forth for comparison in other languages.

where current riders in, well not with South Korean, will say 'tubulars ? no sabe'

a tubular is a picture in an online catalog under TIRES

completely irrelevant to a good ride on a good bike.

beyond comprehension.

market forces.

On 3/27/2014 8:21 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:


?

Je ne sais pas

no sabe

GooTrans INSTANTLY off corse which is immediately impressive gives je ne from no sabe AND allows a shifting back n forth for comparison in other languages.

where current riders in, well not with South Korean, will say 'tubulars ? no sabe'

a tubular is a picture in an online catalog under TIRES

completely irrelevant to a good ride on a good bike.

beyond comprehension.

market forces.





comprend pas du tout ce que tu dit.

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:27:08 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 3/27/2014 8:21 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:





?



Je ne sais pas



no sabe



GooTrans INSTANTLY off corse which is immediately impressive gives je ne from no sabe AND allows a shifting back n forth for comparison in other languages.



where current riders in, well not with South Korean, will say 'tubulars ? no sabe'



a tubular is a picture in an online catalog under TIRES



completely irrelevant to a good ride on a good bike.



beyond comprehension.



market forces.











comprend pas du tout ce que tu dit.



I'll email my Canon camera instructions book. Then you will know.


Let' see....tho' I'm an interested party....I read the available cycle oevre literature when reentering with a 'serious' bicycle...there is a time function.

Muzi is a repository of all information. Since April Fools day ( I hear the locals are removing his front window )

But I know from a time when tubulars do not exist or were not widely used.

So the tubular never fell in the woods.

discarded technology. obsolete.

hmmmm here's an interesting category

our general store keeper collected to hang on the wall.....the barrel bung remover was a favorite....in case you were late with the bill....

http://goo.gl/zyNWg3


http://goo.gl/zyNWg3

On 3/27/2014 9:37 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:27:08 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 3/27/2014 8:21 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:





?



Je ne sais pas



no sabe



GooTrans INSTANTLY off corse which is immediately impressive gives je ne from no sabe AND allows a shifting back n forth for comparison in other languages.



where current riders in, well not with South Korean, will say 'tubulars ? no sabe'



a tubular is a picture in an online catalog under TIRES



completely irrelevant to a good ride on a good bike.



beyond comprehension.



market forces.











comprend pas du tout ce que tu dit.



I'll email my Canon camera instructions book. Then you will know.


Let' see....tho' I'm an interested party....I read the available cycle oevre literature when reentering with a 'serious' bicycle...there is a time function.

Muzi is a repository of all information. Since April Fools day ( I hear the locals are removing his front window )

But I know from a time when tubulars do not exist or were not widely used.

So the tubular never fell in the woods.

discarded technology. obsolete.

hmmmm here's an interesting category

our general store keeper collected to hang on the wall.....the barrel bung remover was a favorite....in case you were late with the bill....

http://goo.gl/zyNWg3


http://goo.gl/zyNWg3


Ah. Like I said, it's been a very long time since I used tubulars. I
found them a pain to use. These days clinchers are fine for what I
need. Some people still like tubs but I find them overly expensive and
too much hassle.

Some people prefer them though. In Andrew's case I wonder if he gets a
slight discount g for them. At any rate, the OP wanted to know the
difference. I think a softer ride due to lower PSI and better cornering
are what most people would say. I get the same on 23mm rims with 23mm
tires.

Given the price of my wheels, I guess I can't really say that clinchers
are cheaper but I can say that they're less hassle.

tubs are SEWN ON ? awwww givemeahbreakwudja...

yach sure is enough BS


https://www.google.com/#q=tubular+bi...+bicycle+tires

... I think a softer ride due to lower PSI and better cornering
are what most people would say. I get the same on 23mm rims with 23mm
tires.

I don't understand. I am not a racer and have never ridden a tubular, unless perhaps for a few yards while test-riding a used bike. Anyway what I don't understand is that 23mm sounds hard and skinny to me; I usually buy 25s, and occasionally 23s if they are on sale or if 25s tend to rub the frame as they did on my kestrel.

I've always thot that 25s are for training or recreational riding, and 23 is what one would race on, and that they would require a few more PSI, and think I read here that they actually offer more rolling resistance - inflated to 120 or 125 - than 25s, inflated to 110 or 115. Cuz they're so hard.

Is it that the above is miscalibrated, that a Real(tm) racing tire is a 20, and you think of 23s as training tires, and by soft u mean in comparison to 20s?

Also, what is the significance of the 23mm rim with?

On 3/27/2014 4:30 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
... I think a softer ride due to lower PSI and better cornering
are what most people would say. I get the same on 23mm rims with 23mm
tires.

I don't understand. I am not a racer and have never ridden a tubular, unless perhaps for a few yards while test-riding a used bike. Anyway what I don't understand is that 23mm sounds hard and skinny to me; I usually buy 25s, and occasionally 23s if they are on sale or if 25s tend to rub the frame as they did on my kestrel.

I've always thot that 25s are for training or recreational riding, and 23 is what one would race on, and that they would require a few more PSI, and think I read here that they actually offer more rolling resistance - inflated to 120 or 125 - than 25s, inflated to 110 or 115. Cuz they're so hard.

Is it that the above is miscalibrated, that a Real(tm) racing tire is a 20, and you think of 23s as training tires, and by soft u mean in comparison to 20s?

Also, what is the significance of the 23mm rim with?





A current trend is wider 23mm rims with 23mm tires:

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/a23-622

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Doug Landau wrote:
... I think a softer ride due to lower PSI and better cornering
are what most people would say. I get the same on 23mm rims with 23mm
tires.

I don't understand. I am not a racer and have never ridden a tubular,
unless perhaps for a few yards while test-riding a used bike. Anyway
what I don't understand is that 23mm sounds hard and skinny to me; I
usually buy 25s, and occasionally 23s if they are on sale or if 25s tend
to rub the frame as they did on my kestrel.

I've always thot that 25s are for training or recreational riding, and 23
is what one would race on, and that they would require a few more PSI,
and think I read here that they actually offer more rolling resistance -
inflated to 120 or 125 - than 25s, inflated to 110 or 115. Cuz they're so hard.

Is it that the above is miscalibrated, that a Real(tm) racing tire is a
20, and you think of 23s as training tires, and by soft u mean in comparison to 20s?

Also, what is the significance of the 23mm rim with?

https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/...content=PLUSsl

--
duane

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:14:56 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Doug Landau wrote:

... I think a softer ride due to lower PSI and better cornering

are what most people would say. I get the same on 23mm rims with 23mm

tires.



I don't understand. I am not a racer and have never ridden a tubular,

unless perhaps for a few yards while test-riding a used bike. Anyway

what I don't understand is that 23mm sounds hard and skinny to me; I

usually buy 25s, and occasionally 23s if they are on sale or if 25s tend

to rub the frame as they did on my kestrel.



I've always thot that 25s are for training or recreational riding, and 23

is what one would race on, and that they would require a few more PSI,

and think I read here that they actually offer more rolling resistance -

inflated to 120 or 125 - than 25s, inflated to 110 or 115. Cuz they're so hard.



Is it that the above is miscalibrated, that a Real(tm) racing tire is a

20, and you think of 23s as training tires, and by soft u mean in comparison to 20s?



Also, what is the significance of the 23mm rim with?



https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/...content=PLUSsl



--

duane

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I doahn know what here but let me offer a mental exercise on the question.

The clincher supports the contact area with sidewalls fastened to the rim .Sidewalls are designed for support and grip. As the contact patch moves around the tread, the sidewall resists contact movement as it is supportive and hinged. Cornering increases the resistance with a sideways scrubbing vector.

The tubular in comparison supports itself neither hinged, grippy nor as resistant for the contact patch is allowed much greater freedom of movement thus less frictional qualities as the patch moves around the rim.

In cornering, esp clumsy cornering, one see the patch floating for road grip compared to the clincher in a more fixed position with more slide than float.

We would see the tubular in an auto racing tire category not a street category.

Here we smeel Pirelli, a very fast street tire giving the same probs as a tubular street tire.

Go ahead, like CF and rose joints on rougher roads, and play with it but accept the costs.