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Frame design influenced by riding positon?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 14, 01:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?

Cheers
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  #2  
Old March 30th 14, 01:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

are you practiced at pedaling while standing forward supported by bar ?

  #3  
Old March 30th 14, 04:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On 3/30/2014 8:14 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?


How do you mean, exactly? Obviously (for an extreme case) a recumbent's
frame design is very heavily influenced by the riding position.

Rivendell's bikes tout their longer, taller head tubes, as a way of
giving the rider a slightly more upright position, for comfort.

Classic three speed roadster bikes have slacker head & seat tube angles
to facilitate a very upright riding position.

What did you have in mind?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old March 30th 14, 05:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:14:03 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient
than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the
wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the
force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position.
That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced
much by the intended riding position?


Yes, depending on the riding speed. Wind resistance is proportional
to wind speed cubed. If the bicycle is not intended to be ridden at
high speeds, wind resistance, and therefore rider drag, are not an
important consideration. That comes into play with comfort and
commuter bicycles, which are not intended for racing. An aero frame
and aero components would be useless on such a bicycle. It wouldn't
matter much anyway because the least aerodynamic component on a
bicycle is the upright rider.

Are you perhaps talking about the load distribution? In the upright
riding position, almost all the riders weight is supported by the
saddle and pedals. In the bent over position, about 75% of the weight
is on the saddle and pedals, while about 25% is on the handlebars. If
one were designing for the bleeding edge of frame lightness (i.e.
carbon fiber) this would be a consideration. However, most bicycles
need to safely accommodate both riding positions, so for versatile
frame designs, it's probably not a major consideration.

I think it might help of you describe what you're trying to
accomplish. If you're thinking of trading the improved rider
efficiency offered by an upright riding position, for an increase in
wind resistance, then that won't work for racing, but is quite
effective for low speed bicycle travel. Besides being more efficient,
upright is also more comfortable.

Note the predominance of upright handlebars and riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M
(I did see one bicycle with drop bars near the beginning).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #5  
Old March 30th 14, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

JL - fat people/outofshape ride upright why ? good question....they cannuh bend over ?

vortex.

riding upright strains the abdomen/midsection

maybe a small amount of EX at lower speeds.

extreme positions give forward power frames a bad name. Easy positioning lower body for forward power while keeping head up, innards uncrushed avoiding a TdF extreme.

I doahno compact frames but ones I see on street are all straight up posture frames....

hard tellin until you ride one or more. Frame's position TRANSFERING into the off seat on bar power position could be there ?
  #6  
Old March 30th 14, 07:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:14:03 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?



Cheers


Addendum.

I was interested in bicycle design and the technical aspects of it when designing for drop bars, or upright riding positions. Things such as slacker angkles mentioned by anothr poster or if frames are longer etcetera.

Cheers
  #7  
Old March 30th 14, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:44:52 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:14:03 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?








Cheers




Addendum.



I was interested in bicycle design and the technical aspects of it when designing for drop bars, or upright riding positions. Things such as slacker angkles mentioned by anothr poster or if frames are longer etcetera.



Cheers


rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


good question....riding upright where place hands for linking abdomen to thighs n glutes ? APE HANGERS !
  #8  
Old March 31st 14, 02:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:14:03 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?

Cheers


Certainly "Triathlete" bikes and speed record bikes are different. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Obree for example.

The "tri" bikes have a more upright seat post to move the rider
forward so he fits the extended "tri-bars" better, and probably the
long distance people like the RAAM riders that do really long rides
and use the extended bars use something similar, as well as time
trials bikes.

Seat post and head tube angle is also usually different on track bikes
and stage racing bikes as well as road bikes and when you think about
it even "beach cruisers" have different geometry from a conventional
"road bike".

So, yes frame design does vary, in some degree, depending on the
intended bike use.
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #9  
Old March 31st 14, 03:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:47:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:14:03 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot

wrote:



Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?




Cheers




Certainly "Triathlete" bikes and speed record bikes are different. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Obree for example.



The "tri" bikes have a more upright seat post to move the rider

forward so he fits the extended "tri-bars" better, and probably the

long distance people like the RAAM riders that do really long rides

and use the extended bars use something similar, as well as time

trials bikes.



Seat post and head tube angle is also usually different on track bikes

and stage racing bikes as well as road bikes and when you think about

it even "beach cruisers" have different geometry from a conventional

"road bike".



So, yes frame design does vary, in some degree, depending on the

intended bike use.

--

Cheers,



John B.


I've read that triathalon bicycles are designed to make the transition from riding to running easier but they sacrifice comfort on really long rides to do so.

Cheers
  #10  
Old March 31st 14, 11:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:42:01 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:47:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:14:03 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot

wrote:



Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?




Cheers




Certainly "Triathlete" bikes and speed record bikes are different. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Obree for example.



The "tri" bikes have a more upright seat post to move the rider

forward so he fits the extended "tri-bars" better, and probably the

long distance people like the RAAM riders that do really long rides

and use the extended bars use something similar, as well as time

trials bikes.



Seat post and head tube angle is also usually different on track bikes

and stage racing bikes as well as road bikes and when you think about

it even "beach cruisers" have different geometry from a conventional

"road bike".



So, yes frame design does vary, in some degree, depending on the

intended bike use.

--

Cheers,



John B.


I've read that triathalon bicycles are designed to make the transition from riding to running easier but they sacrifice comfort on really long rides to do so.

Cheers


I'm not a triathlete by any means but I did run for many years and I
can't see any way to make transition from cycling to running easier,
other than perhaps using slip on shoe's, or something like that.

But I have read quite a bit about tri bikes though and the people who
ride them seem to think that the secret is the position with the
elbows at the stem and the hands forward. They don't talk much about
comfort but a lot about low wind resistance.

http://www.active.com/triathlon/arti...-specific-bike
http://www.onlinetriathlontraining.c...riathlon-bike/
--
Cheers,

John B.
 




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