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US Marines execute Iraqi civilian on bicycle to the cheers of fellow Marines - caught on video



 
 
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Old June 2nd 06, 07:36 AM posted to aus.bicycle
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Default US Marines execute Iraqi civilian on bicycle to the cheers of fellow Marines - caught on video

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5365.htm

Take No Prisoners

Another proud moment in U.S. Military History.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi on bicycle to the cheers of fellow marines

-:WARNING:-

This video should only be viewed by a mature audience



More video he
http://www.ndrtv.de/cgi/pan_video/vi...20_schuesse.rm

Page Updated: 02/27/04/

Transcript:

CNN Presents: Fit To Kill

Aired October 26, 2003 - 20:00 ET

CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The
Marines kill him -- then cheer.

RIDDLE: Like, man, you guys are dead now, you know. But it was a good
feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah!

CROWLEY: When the battle is over and you are still standing, the adrenalin
rush is huge.

RIDDLE: I mean, afterwards you're like, hell, yeah, that was awesome. Let's
do it again.

CROWLEY: Inexplicable to some, but not to generations of veterans. Continued
Here


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. ENEMY PRISONER OF WAR (EPW) AND CIVILIAN INTERNEE (CI) OPERATIONS
INSTRUCTIONS

Basic U.S. policy underlying the treatment accorded EPW and all other enemy
personnel captured, interned, or otherwise held in U.S. Army custody during
the course of a conflict requires and directs that all such personnel be
accorded humanitarian care and treatment from the moment of custody until
final release or repatriation. The observance of this policy is fully and
equally binding upon U.S. personnel, whether capturing troops, custodial
personnel, or in whatever other capacity they may be serving. This policy is
equally applicable for the protection of all detained or interned personnel,
whether their status is that of prisoner of war, civilian internee, or any
other category. It is applicable whether they are known to have, or are
suspected of having, committed serious offenses which could be characterized
as a war crime. The punishment of such persons is administered by due
process of law and under the legally constituted authority. The
administration of inhumane treatment, even if committed under stress of
combat and with deep provocation, is a serious and punishable violation
under national law, international law, and the Uniform Code of Military
Justice.

Violations of this policy, and the laws and regulations may result in an
individual being prosecuted as a war criminal. Anyone observing a violation
of law, or suspecting one has happened, has a positive legal obligation to
report it to appropriate authorities. Failure to do so is a violation in
itself. Continued

Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick
in Armed Forces in the Field. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Comments from readers regarding this video.

Tom- I believe the way you present the 'shocking' video you have on your
website is very irresponsible and inflammatory. The very fact that it is
presented without amplifying remarks or background information, coupled with
how you use 'execute' to describe the situation, illustrates how naive you
are to military operations.

The current policy in Iraq is to SHOOT ON SIGHT ANYBODY emplacing
IEDs....yes, those nasty little roadside bombs that have killed almost 200
of our service personnel. But of course, given the very OBVIOUS leftist
slant of your website, it is apparent that you wouldn't see fit to report
all the facts, choosing instead to attempt to use such media
to advance your faltering liberal agenda, rather than condemn a terrorist
agenda. Where on your website do you report the assassinations by
terrorists who only hope to get their country back up and running, or the
indiscriminate bombings that kill innocent, non-combatant Iraqis?

Forget the fact that we have build hundreds of schools, enabled democracy,
re-energized the Iraqi economy, or that Saddam killed tens of thousands of
people (to name a few). According to your website, a day doesn't go by
when we aren't killing Afghani children or conspiring with the Israelis to
take over the world.

Too bad the economy is up, and the Dems best hopes lie w/ Howard Dean...Good
luck with that! Bush in 2004!

SEMPER FI!

Capt. James Kimber
United States Marine Corps
Training & Education Command
Reconnaissance & Special Skills Officer
COMM: (703)784-3041 DSN 278
FAX: (703)432-0608
EMAIL:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot believe you want us to believe that the video you show of the US
Marines killing that man is anything but a propaganda issue? Why didn't you
include the part where this character was laying in ambush for the Marine
patrol to wlak by? Why didn't you show the part where he is rigging an
improvised explosive device to go off the next convoy that drives by it?

What you have shown here is prue drivell. I am outraged that you have the
audactiy to put this on your site. I am further embarassed if someone
actually believes that "their" Marines would do such a thing to a person who
didn't deserve it. Don't give me "Well, thats for courts to decide."
argument. This is a battle zone and you have ZERO idea of what these 18-22
year oldss are having to deal with on a daily basis.

I am appalled and dismayed at your lack of support for our troops, my
brothers in arms, that are out there. You say "I support the troops, not
the mission." But when you show vulgarity like that on your site, you have
no support for them at all.

Obviously, your kids are not in the military.

CWO2 Bryan M Simon, USMC
Combat Cargo Officer USS Juneau
E-Mail:

Siprnet:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir;

I saw both the video on the front page and read the letters from the
Marines.

Disgusting.

I too, am recently returned from seven months in Iraq, with a Division
Cavalry unit. I see nothing to defend in that video and am glad that you
have archived it so that others can see it. As a scout with over twenty
years in the Army, mostly in combat units, I would say that what is captured
on the video appears to be murder and in violation of the Law
of Land Warfare.

This is not how warriors behave but how thugs operate. If the Iraqi man was
indeed laying in ambush or setting an IED, then it is entirely appropriate
to shoot him and to shoot him until he is no longer a threat. Once he ceased
combat operations however, it became the soldiers' job to treat him and give
him the same aid they would have one of our wounded soldiers receive.

That's how the Law of Land Warfare works.

To use him as a target and appear so joyful about it demonstrates that
murder occurred and not combat operations. That is not a reflection of how
callous all the soldiers are or what is encouraged or allowed in units. That
unit has a problem. Any commander that glosses over that incident is
neglecting his duty.

In the opening days of the war, our medics treated many Iraqi casualties,
sometimes heroically. That's what you do. Its the law. I have no love lost
for Iraqis, especially after watching the ones so happy to get a handout
dance so gleefully in soldier's blood.

Our troops killed plenty, engaging in combat actions. My instructions to
soldiers on missions almost always included the words - "if at anytime you
feel threatened, shoot, shoot first and shoot center mass." But at no time
were any of our soldiers instructed, allowed or countenanced to murder an
injured person, be he combatant or not. I took pride that my commander
insisted we "keep our mean faces on. We are not here to make
friends" but also insisted on the humane treatment, even recommending our PA
for an award solely for working heroically on an Iraqi casualty.

This man had attempted to engage our forces, was shot and shot bad and
eventually died. No one was happy that a human died. We understood that if
we are to expect to be treated a certain way upon injury or capture, then we
must treat the enemy the same way. That's what warriors do.

1SG Perry D. Jefferies
Copperas Cove, TX

www.jeffzed.org
....information wants to be free...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

Please forward all email from enlisted military personnel that believe this
was not an execution or was in any way justifiable to the senators on the
Senate Armed Services Committee. They need to be held accountable for this.

The most disturbing I read was Capt. James Kimber United States Marine Corps
Training & Education Command Reconnaissance & Special Skills Officer.

He should be court marshaled for the remarks he made here. Regardless of a
persons political affiliation and regardless of how Kimber seems to feel you
were unfair for not showing what led to this it was an execution by all
applicable laws of war.

His failure to recognize this as anything else means he supports executions
of what should have been a prisoner or war. Our soldiers deserve to be
honored when they are good soldiers and punished when they are not. We have
a volunteer Army. If you join you better understand the responsibility you
are taking and the laws that apply.

Sure there will be split second calls that a soldier wishes he could take
back and that has to be considered. But no matter how many times you watch
this video the only way you could justify this is if you support war crimes.
I hope James Kimber was just blowing off steam from political views and his
hatred of anyone who does not share his political affiliation and that this
is not representative of the way is actually is as a soldier.



As far as the letter from the other soldier that seemed to think you posted
vulgarity to be used for propaganda? If he views this video as vulgarity
then blame the soldiers involved. He may think that any war crimes need to
be swept under the rug and that there should not be any accountability. We
have an entire administration that seems to share his belief but there will
come a time of reckoning. If our country gets to the place that as a whole
we support what happened in that video then we have become a terrorist
nation. We need to impose punishment on those that have broke the laws or
expect at some point to have a pre-emptive strike against us. Would rather
root out the war criminals ourselves and show the rest of the world that we
have not became a terrorist nation.

Impeaching Bush for lying and misleading us into a war would be a great
start.

Mike Roberts:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember that we applied the Geneva Conventions of War to some Japanese
Generals and hung them for doing exactly the same thing, summarily executing
US POWs.

John Stone



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep trying, you will find a small group of people willing to carry your
torch. A very vocal minority that includes a Hollywood star or two will
sing your praises. Get a life and understand that those brave military
souls in Iraq and we law enforcement officers here defend you and your
constitutional rights on a daily basis.

We do not want or expect your gratification. We do not want you to thank
us. We do not want you to honor us. We do not want you to buy our family
dinners. We do not want you to even recognize our participation in the
struggle. We will defend you regardless of your political or idealogical
leanings. We want what you want. A country that is free from dictators
that squash the dreams of the meek. A society that is safe from the
predators who choose to prey on the weak or uninformed.

The USA is just such a place where these freedoms are realities.

What if.

What if you were in Iraq and you were criticizing the government on their
treatment of criminal and political prisoners?

You're welcome.
Elizabeth Mann


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps you should go to Iraq and instruct our soldier on the proper way to
fight a war? Oh wait you might get hurt doing that, so maybe you should
just stay right where you are in safety and let them do the fighting for
you. I bet if you went to a army camp and shared your ideas everybody would
appreciate that. Don't forget to vote Democrat down the line on election
day.

Good luck Commie
Bob Simms


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information is very important for everyone. War is no fun nor is it
glorious. These kind of incidents are more common place than people think.
Every generation has seen this but we are to traumatized to speak of it even
years afterwards. Those who spend time talking about it either were not
there or are not normal. Those in the latter category are few and far
between.

Thomas D, U....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just watched that video and I am shocked to say the least. I would first
like to direct my comment to the two "Marines" that decided to comment.
First of all, you are both rear area personnel. Neither of you are
frontline combatants, with possibly the exception of the combat controller,
but definately not the desk jockey captain. I was a combat engineer, and a
MSG. Do not sit back at your desk and defend those actions. The Army scout
that stated that those were in DIRECT violation of the Laws of War were
correct. This is somethign that was drilled into our heads in bootcamp,
MCT, and in School. The enemy was wounded and as stated by the Geneva
Convention we are bound to provide him help. That video proved that some of
our troops are no better than the ones they are killing. I GUARANTEE that
if video footage had been shown of Iraqi troops doing that, everyone would
have lost their minds. People lost their minds when they saw a U.S.
serviceman being dragged through the streets of Somalia. And he was dead
already. Imagine if they would have done that to your darling Jessica
Lynch. But no, the Iraqi doctors saved her. THEY SAVED HER LIFE. So,
don't sit there behind your desk and try to rationalize what those "Marines"
did. What's truly ironic, is that you would defend those "Marines" but any
Marine under your command would probably be prosecuted under the UCMJ if
they sent a dirty joke over email.

But let's look at it on a more tactical level. Should we have saved him, we
COULD HAVE


INTERROGATED HIM. Did you ever think of that? No, probably not. A live
POW provides more information than a dead one. We possibly could have found
out more about the cells, but this "kill them all mentality" is what is
stopping us. I know you have interpreter/interrogators there, try freaking
using them. With people like that blind-to-the-facts desk jockey Captain,
and that brainwashed Combat Controller running the show, it's no wonder that
the post war operations have been such a sham.

Tom, I would like to say that not all Marines are like that. In fact, most
probaably arent. I would like to think that there was a reason they did
what they did. I would like to know the background behind what led up to
that. Of course even then, I don't think that what they did was justified.
It was wrong, just plain wrong.

Rob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank god people like you were not around in the 1940's......but then again
you might have approved of Hitler & his tactics.....

Christopher Conklin
Average American.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You show only sympathy for our enemies. Why don't you put up a video of
Arabs celebrating when the Twin Towers fell? Why don't you put up video of
the innocent victims of Arab suicide bombers? Put up some pictures of the
innocent women and children that were murdered by the thousands by Saddam
and his Military? How about some pictures of the executed American POW's in
Iraq?

You feel sorry for an enemy solider that was trying to kill Americans, What
is wrong with you people have you forgotten what kind of enemy we are
dealing with? Are you sympathetic to their cause? Seems to me you want to
see dead American kids.

This quote is a joke "Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to
his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer."

No kidding he had a gun! Read it real close, He had a gun!

Marines kill their enemies that is their job! But of course a civilian would
know nothing of this. Before you pass judgment on our troops try walking in
their boots. Quit standing on our troops to get your warped political
message out to your misguided followers!

M Walsh

Cpl United States Marine Corps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

I viewed the video of the US MArines shooting the Iraqi on the ground. I
was appalled at the behaviour and attitude of the Marines involved. So the
man was armed and was involved in a shootout. He was also wounded,
disarmed, distraut and probably seeking help. What the Marines did was
sheer bloody murder, and if the US Government had any credibility they would
prosecute those involved as crimminal s and murderers. What also appalled
me was the attitude of those who carrie dout the crime. Stating how great
it felt and that (in the case of one Marine) he wanted to do it again. Have
we, or to be more precise the US now got a future mass murderer on ntheir
hands? Will these men be deprogrammed before being sent home to their
families? Will these people who now have a taste for killing and liking it
carry on later in life? God (if she or he exists) I hope not.

As to the comments from serving members of the USMC who replied to your
publishing the article. These two men, both leaders in the US Armed Forces
have sent a message that those leaders support murder. Lt William Caley did
in Vietnam, as did his Battalion and Brigade Commanders. Additionally I was
appalled by the political views expressed by one of the individuals. Such a
blatant expression of political views and bias is, in my opinion also
indefensible. Soldiers can have a political view, but they should not
publically express those views as a soldier. If Captain Kimber USMC and CWO
Simon wanted to criticise your handling of the article they should have done
so as Mr Kimber or Mr Simon. If these two men were sefing members of the
Australian Defence Forces they would have been in more trouble than Ned
Keley (an Australian Bushranger or outlaw hung for his crimes) and would
have been reprimanded by the Military Authorities.

If some Hawks in the US or elsewhere want to paint me as a left wing namby
pamby pacifist, get this. I am a Vietnam Veterna and proud of it. We
Australian Vets, as with the US, NZ, Thai, Taiwanese, Korean, Philippine etc
comrades, did a job that we were sent to do. It is irrrelevant now whether
that War was justified or not. I also served for 20.5 years in the
Australian Regular Army, including 10 years in the Australian Army
Intelligence Corps. I believe I can recognise an illegal act when I seee
one. What I saw in that Video was an illegal act. A man writhing in agony
on the ground, taken out of the fight, who could not protect himself,
probably in shock, was shot once and probably twice - IN THE BACK. I
thought it was the code of the great American West not to shoot a man in the
back. That was supposed to be the cowards way.

I conclude murder is murder. In addition that the US Armed Forces, the Bush
Administration, and the wider American community must wake up to the fact
that most of those killing Americans do so because they have seen their
country destroyed, invaded, and occupied by foreign powers. Just as the
French did between 1940 and 1945, the Poles did in the same period they are
patriots fighting for their country.

Regards

Charles Dearling



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't see the complete video footage of this, but the guy could of had a
grenade waiting for the Marines to come close to kill as many as he could. I
belive this was happening at the closing to the end of the last major
battle.

I didn't see the complete footage so I don't know if this is true or not but
if it is it ture it reenforces my first belief about the grenade or
explosive wich would be remote detonated.
"Why didn't you show the part where he is rigging an improvised explosive
device to go off the next convoy that drives by it?"

Just because you are wounded does not make you are prisoner of war, once
someone shoots at you, they are fair game and may kill them to eliminate the
threat.

-Matt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir,

Finding a link to your page
(http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5365.htm) on a military and
history board I frequently visit, I was (once
again) shocked by the savageness the US forces show in Iraq.

To introduce myself, I am a German student of history and English, I have
served in the German Forces and, as every patriot, I am proud of my country.

For me the United States always were a nation of great people. People who do
not hesitate to stand up for anything they believe in. Unfortunately however
it seems that certain lessons were not learned by your goverment. Especially
to mention the lession of deescalation and correct behaviour in an occupied
country. The fact that men like Capt. James Kimber and CWO2 Bryan M Simon
state your website and the presenting of the video as "devious" or
"outraging"
simply shows that they do not know the most basic rules of the "Haager
Landkriegsordnung" (laws of landwarfare, constituted at the beginning of the
20th
century) and the Conventions of Geneve. I am not aware how US recruits are
schooled in terms of international law, but I would expect them to meat
German
standards at least. Every German soldier, before even holding a rifle for
the
first time is schooled in international law, law of war and war ethics. As
the
US forces tend to be more likely involved in off country operations I would
consider it irresponsible to send young boys unschooled into war.

I am well aware that US soldiers receive less cultural education about the
countries they enter, a fact leading to deviant behaviour in the eyes of
many
Iraqis, but yet the problem of the US forces in Iraq is not behaviong
deviant, but simply contraproductive. If the USA would have learned as much
from
German Worldwar II experiences as they took our scientists, they could have
won
Vietnam (or propably would not have entered it at all), but surely they
would
not pay such a high bloodtoll in Iraq.

Entering hostile territory is never easy, but keeping occupied territory
quiet is even a harder task to manage. Looking back on German expierences
the
USA should have learned the following:
# You cannot win a partisan/guerilla war.
# Everytime your forces are ambushed and you do punishment raids, the
guerillas will do punishment raids as well. But they will be more succesful
than
you.
# Fighting guerillas is fighting people who got nothing to loose and are
willing to die for their cause, so killing them is like saying: Yes you are
right.
We experienced this on the Balkan, in Greece, Italy and of course Russia.

I do not know if these marines showen in the video were attacked in the
first place, but as you stated it was not an appropriate response to kill
the
man. After all he was lying on the ground, visibly unable to act and seizing
to
be a threat. Law imperates to help this man. I fully agree with 1SG Perry D.
Jefferies and am not able too add anything in this matter.

For the future I wish the very best for our Allies the United States of
America. Though I fear a political confrontation coming up between the EU
and the
USA I still have hopes for a century as bright as the past. I hope Mr Bush
will loose next years election and wish you all the best, Merry Christmas
and
Happy New Year. May their be peace in these strange times.

OG d. R. Christian U. Wohlthat

Einigkeit, Recht, Freiheit


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe someone should let the commanding officer of the USS Juneau
) Kevin O'Flaherty and the Commanding General
of the Marine Corp Training Command ) BG George
Flynn know what outstanding Marines they have in their command.
Marines like these who encourage through their words the violation of the
Geneva and Hague convention.
As a former Military police man who served with 3AD during Desert Storm
this video makes me ill. The man is obviously wounded and no longer a
combatant. These Marines are no longer soldiers in my eyes but cold
blooded killers.

Paul



--
"What we're talking about here, is late night, early morning, low
clouds." www.iamthewitness.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is Science and Reality still important or has it taken
a backseat to the fictional tales told by western politicians?
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html




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