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The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 13th 05, 07:53 AM
Blair P. Houghton
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

wrote:
Andrew Muzi writes:

I got my new wheels.


The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.


Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only 124 mm.
The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the brake mount, so
it doesn't flex much the way I need it to. No way am I bending
this frame, and I really don't want to have anyone else do it
either. So I'm kinda screwed at this point. I can't put this
wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.


Lay your frame without wheel flat on the ground. Put your foot on
the frame end. Lift the other one with both hands until it stays at
130mm. Go ride. Sometime when it's convenient, have the alignment
checked.


Let me add to that to place your foot at the brake bridge of the side
on the floor and pull up on the dropout that is upward with care,
noting when spacing has increased by about half the distance. Then
repeat on the other side. Overshoot isn't good.

At this point the dropouts are no longer parallel (if they ever were)
but the angle is smaller than you want to know about.


The mechanical theory is sound.

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.

I'd rather find the right axle or find out it's not
possible to find one, first.

In this case, repacking the bearings is much the
less-stressful solution.

--Blair
"Anyone want to buy a hub?"
Ads
  #22  
Old August 13th 05, 02:29 PM
Vee
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.


Others have been polite, but that hasn't worked, so he you're being
stupid about this. The best solution is to respace your Holdsworth.
You do not have "enough practice with mechanicals" to reasonably
approach this problem, or you would know this is not a risky or drastic
solution. Respace and stop poo-pooing.

-Vee

  #23  
Old August 13th 05, 02:52 PM
dan_s
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Hank Wirtz wrote:
"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:48:30 GMT, "mark" wrote:


Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what
I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper,


Ditto. '86 Marinoni came 126mm and I just put 130mm 8 speed hub in.
No problem.



I'll add to the dogpile. I had my '75 Peugeot PX-10 spread from 120 to 130.
I now have 9-speed ergopower on it and love the bike more than ever.

-HW


same here with an ancient st etienne steel frame. bend the thing already.
  #24  
Old August 13th 05, 09:47 PM
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Blair P. Houghton writes:

I got my new wheels.


The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.


Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only 124 mm.
The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the brake mount,
so it doesn't flex much the way I need it to. No way am I
bending this frame, and I really don't want to have anyone else
do it either. So I'm kinda screwed at this point. I can't put
this wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.


Lay your frame without wheel flat on the ground. Put your foot on
the frame end. Lift the other one with both hands until it stays
at 130mm. Go ride. Sometime when it's convenient, have the
alignment checked.


Let me add to that to place your foot at the brake bridge of the
side on the floor and pull up on the dropout that is upward with
care, noting when spacing has increased by about half the distance.
Then repeat on the other side. Overshoot isn't good.


At this point the dropouts are no longer parallel (if they ever
were) but the angle is smaller than you want to know about.


The mechanical theory is sound.


But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that theory
don't mean **** when you're standing there with a broken widget in
your hand.


Huh? What is it that you think will not work?

I'd rather find the right axle or find out it's not possible to find
one, first.


It's not the axle but the width of hub and freewheel that defines
frame spacing.

In this case, repacking the bearings is much the less-stressful
solution.


Or, rearrange the deck chairs as the ship sinks. What does this have
to do with the OP's frame width adjustment?

Jobst Brandt
  #25  
Old August 14th 05, 04:21 AM
Dennis P. Harris
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 06:53:01 GMT in rec.bicycles.tech, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.

it's steel. it's not going to break. if you want to be gentle,
use a long bolt, several large washers, and a couple of nuts and
spred it gently by increasing the distance between two nuts on
the inside of the dropouts until you have the width you need.

you keep obsessing about this frame. steel frams bend quite
easily, especially for the small distance that you're discussing,
6 to 8 mm. it's almost impossible to damage a steel frame by
gently spreading the rear dropouts.




  #26  
Old August 14th 05, 11:14 PM
Blair P. Houghton
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Vee wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.


Others have been polite, but that hasn't worked, so he you're being
stupid about this. The best solution is to respace your Holdsworth.


Others have been polite because there is more than one
solution, and I've told you I don't want to break my
Holdsworth.

So go shove your bad attitude back up your ass.

You do not have "enough practice with mechanicals" to reasonably
approach this problem, or you would know this is not a risky or drastic
solution. Respace and stop poo-pooing.


I've got plenty of experience with mechanicals. Enough to
know these two significant things: when you stress old
metal, it doesn't behave the way new metal does; you can't
bend two pieces of metal exactly the same, and the two sides
of the rear triangle are two pieces of metal that need to
be bent exactly the same.

There's also the fact that we're talking about one kind of
metal encased in another (the Campy lugs are hardened and
the surrounding material is not) and once the stays are
widened the lug area has to be realigned, which threatens
to split the join between these dissimilar metals.

You say it's easy, why don't you pony up and indemnify the
process against any sort of mechanical error for the $20k
or so this frame is really worth to me.

This ain't your ****ing Huffy.

--Blair
"You can't buy hand-fitted Holdsworths
with 20 years of road-testing in them
any more."
  #27  
Old August 14th 05, 11:19 PM
Blair P. Houghton
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Dennis P. Harris wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 06:53:01 GMT in rec.bicycles.tech, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.

it's steel. it's not going to break.


....said the designers of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

if you want to be gentle,
use a long bolt, several large washers, and a couple of nuts and
spred it gently by increasing the distance between two nuts on
the inside of the dropouts until you have the width you need.

you keep obsessing about this frame. steel frams bend quite
easily, especially for the small distance that you're discussing,
6 to 8 mm. it's almost impossible to damage a steel frame by
gently spreading the rear dropouts.


How do I guarantee that the lugs won't separate from the
frame at the welds under this non-designed stress; how do I
ensure that the two stays move outward the same distance;
and how do I know the bar on which the brake is mounted
won't break from one stay or the other?

--Blair
"I don't."
  #28  
Old August 14th 05, 11:53 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:14:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Vee wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:

But I've got enough practice with mechanicals to know that
theory don't mean **** when you're standing there with a
broken widget in your hand.


Others have been polite, but that hasn't worked, so he you're being
stupid about this. The best solution is to respace your Holdsworth.


Others have been polite because there is more than one
solution, and I've told you I don't want to break my
Holdsworth.


It's extremely unlikely to break, as the many examples presented have
shown. If you want to ignore them, fine, but it's irrational.

You've got a non-problem with your bike you want to make into a
problem. Too bad.

JT

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  #29  
Old August 14th 05, 11:54 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:19:01 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

How do I guarantee that the lugs won't separate from the
frame at the welds under this non-designed stress; how do I
ensure that the two stays move outward the same distance;
and how do I know the bar on which the brake is mounted
won't break from one stay or the other?


How can you guarantee you don't cut yourself, or get hit by lightning
or whatever. Lighten up. It's not that big a deal. Just stick the
wheel in and ride it.

JT


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  #30  
Old August 14th 05, 11:58 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:14:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:


I've got plenty of experience with mechanicals. Enough to
know these two significant things: when you stress old
metal, it doesn't behave the way new metal does;


If you genuinely believe that this old bike is so fragile that
putting a 5mm wider rear hub is a significant risk, I'd imagine you
should be concerned about the safety of even riding it...

JT

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