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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 1st 08, 07:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Posts: 1,228
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 11:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie wrote:

On Oct 1, 10:01*am, Roger Thorpe
wrote:
_ wrote:
It depends on the tape - but there is a neat, simple, cheap solution.


Put short sections of inner tube on the bars next the stem. *When wrapping,
you start at the end and wrap towards the stem. *At the stem, fold the tube
back towrds the stem, finish wrapping, and unfold the tube over the ends of
the wrap.


Well, I've spent a few years working in a bike shop, wrapped a few
handlebars and now work where my job is(supposed to be) to have good
ideas, but I've got to say..
"I wish that I'd thought of that."


Keep in mind that putting short sections of inner tube on the bars
near the stem means that you have to remove the brake levers and
untape the cables -- unless you have split-center bars (usually
considered a factory defect). I think a couple inches of black
electrical tape is more simple. -- Jay Beattie.


Yes it is - but the tube is neater, lasts better and is not sticky - and if
you are taking the tape off anyway it's five minute to pop the levers off
as well.
Ads
  #22  
Old October 1st 08, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
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Posts: 9,202
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

In article ,
wrote:

Michael Press wrote:

Some people say that when cotton twill bar tape is wrapped
from the stem to the bar ends the hands on the top bend
constantly abrade against the exposed edge of the bar
tape making it fray and degenerate more rapidly than if
the wrap job is done from the bar end to the stem. Have
any of you seen this kind of fraying?


Yes.


I have not.


For a while I wrapped from bar end to stem, but hated the
necessary sticky tape wrap at the stem because it was bulky and
not as pretty as a tucked bar tape start, so I went back to
wrapping from the stem out. I have never had the tape fray at the
edge. The tape eventually deteriorates but the edge remains fine.
The tape typically fails where it wraps over the underneath edge
as in these photographs.


It may depend on the tape itself. IIRC, the Velox or Tressostar
was pretty stiff, so the edges didn't "roll over."


Cateye, on the other hand, is thin and soft and flexible, and the
edges "roll up" when the hands put pressure on it. That is, you
grip the bars and pressure from your arms tends to make your hands
slide along the bar, e.g. from near the bar tops toward the brake
hoods. As your hands slide, the edges roll up and or abrade away.
So you want to make sure that any likely sliding of your hands
along the bar will lay the tape back down rather than roll it up.
Hence, bottom-to-top wrapping.


Is Tressostar or the like still in production? You can get old
rolls on Ebay, but I wonder if the adhesive is still functional.


I get new rolls of good cotton twill tape from the LBS. No label.
How about this? Wrapping stem to end puts the tape edges in a place
where they resist hand slippage?


That is similar to putting up a shingle roof starting at the top.
Years ago when all there was was Tressostar, it became apparent that
if the exposed edges of the tape are facing upward (against hand
motion) they would curl. The technique went so far as to tape from
the brake hoods to the to top as well as from there to the bar end
with the effect of hands on the hooks to slide forward.


http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093

Then you have seen it curl. It does not curl up under me, as you
see in the pictures. Why is that?


Because the tape is wrapped toward the stem from what is visible.
That is apparent from the part where there is a gap opening between
wraps.


No, it is most assuredly wrapped stem to end. And it did
not curl at the edge. That is why I went to considerable
trouble to take sharp, close, well lighted pictures. See
picture P1010403 for definitive evidence of the wrap direction.

I have found that the lower bar end is less sensitive to hand motion
while the upper part is, because it undergoes strong hand forces when
climbing. In any event, I believe from bar end, past the brake hoods
to the stem is the most stable configuration, noting that the wrap
should go in the direction that the rider's gripping thumb points.


I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. I just
outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the
other way.


If you read my first post for content, you would know that
I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a
problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have
seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped
stem to end.

--
Michael Press
  #23  
Old October 1st 08, 09:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,041
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

On Oct 1, 2:32*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,





wrote:
Michael Press wrote:


Some people say that when cotton twill bar tape is wrapped
from the stem to the bar ends the hands on the top bend
constantly abrade against the exposed edge of the bar
tape making it fray and degenerate more rapidly than if
the wrap job is done from the bar end to the stem. *Have
any of you seen this kind of fraying?


Yes.


I have not.


For a while I wrapped from bar end to stem, but hated the
necessary sticky tape wrap at the stem because it was bulky and
not as pretty as a tucked bar tape start, so I went back to
wrapping from the stem out. *I have never had the tape fray at the
edge. *The tape eventually deteriorates but the edge remains fine.
The tape typically fails where it wraps over the underneath edge
as in these photographs.


It may depend on the tape itself. *IIRC, the Velox or Tressostar
was pretty stiff, so the edges didn't "roll over."


Cateye, on the other hand, is thin and soft and flexible, and the
edges "roll up" when the hands put pressure on it. *That is, you
grip the bars and pressure from your arms tends to make your hands
slide along the bar, e.g. *from near the bar tops toward the brake
hoods. *As your hands slide, the edges roll up and or abrade away.
So you want to make sure that any likely sliding of your hands
along the bar will lay the tape back down rather than roll it up.
Hence, bottom-to-top wrapping.


Is Tressostar or the like still in production? *You can get old
rolls on Ebay, but I wonder if the adhesive is still functional.


I get new rolls of good cotton twill tape from the LBS. *No label..
How about this? Wrapping stem to end puts the tape edges in a place
where they resist hand slippage? *


That is similar to putting up a shingle roof starting at the top.
Years ago when all there was was Tressostar, it became apparent that
if the exposed edges of the tape are facing upward (against hand
motion) they would curl. *The technique went so far as to tape from
the brake hoods to the to top as well as from there to the bar end
with the effect of hands on the hooks to slide forward.


*http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093


Then you have seen it curl. *It does not curl up under me, as you
see in the pictures. *Why is that?


Because the tape is wrapped toward the stem from what is visible.
That is apparent from the part where there is a gap opening between
wraps.


No, it is most assuredly wrapped stem to end. And it did
not curl at the edge. That is why I went to considerable
trouble to take sharp, close, well lighted pictures. See
picture P1010403 for definitive evidence of the wrap direction.

I have found that the lower bar end is less sensitive to hand motion
while the upper part is, because it undergoes strong hand forces when
climbing. *In any event, I believe from bar end, past the brake hoods
to the stem is the most stable configuration, noting that the wrap
should go in the direction that the rider's gripping thumb points.


I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. *I just
outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the
other way.


If you read my first post for content, you would know that
I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a
problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have
seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped
stem to end.

--
Michael Press- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem
to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends
of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of
electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the
edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your
tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar
end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is
if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops
by the stem.
  #24  
Old October 1st 08, 09:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,202
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

In article
,
" wrote:

On Oct 1, 2:32*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,





wrote:
Michael Press wrote:


Some people say that when cotton twill bar tape is wrapped
from the stem to the bar ends the hands on the top bend
constantly abrade against the exposed edge of the bar
tape making it fray and degenerate more rapidly than if
the wrap job is done from the bar end to the stem. *Have
any of you seen this kind of fraying?


Yes.


I have not.


For a while I wrapped from bar end to stem, but hated the
necessary sticky tape wrap at the stem because it was bulky and
not as pretty as a tucked bar tape start, so I went back to
wrapping from the stem out. *I have never had the tape fray at the
edge. *The tape eventually deteriorates but the edge remains fine.
The tape typically fails where it wraps over the underneath edge
as in these photographs.


It may depend on the tape itself. *IIRC, the Velox or Tressostar
was pretty stiff, so the edges didn't "roll over."


Cateye, on the other hand, is thin and soft and flexible, and the
edges "roll up" when the hands put pressure on it. *That is, you
grip the bars and pressure from your arms tends to make your hands
slide along the bar, e.g. *from near the bar tops toward the brake
hoods. *As your hands slide, the edges roll up and or abrade away.
So you want to make sure that any likely sliding of your hands
along the bar will lay the tape back down rather than roll it up.
Hence, bottom-to-top wrapping.


Is Tressostar or the like still in production? *You can get old
rolls on Ebay, but I wonder if the adhesive is still functional.


I get new rolls of good cotton twill tape from the LBS. *No label.
How about this? Wrapping stem to end puts the tape edges in a place
where they resist hand slippage? *


That is similar to putting up a shingle roof starting at the top.
Years ago when all there was was Tressostar, it became apparent that
if the exposed edges of the tape are facing upward (against hand
motion) they would curl. *The technique went so far as to tape from
the brake hoods to the to top as well as from there to the bar end
with the effect of hands on the hooks to slide forward.


*http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093


Then you have seen it curl. *It does not curl up under me, as you
see in the pictures. *Why is that?


Because the tape is wrapped toward the stem from what is visible.
That is apparent from the part where there is a gap opening between
wraps.


No, it is most assuredly wrapped stem to end. And it did
not curl at the edge. That is why I went to considerable
trouble to take sharp, close, well lighted pictures. See
picture P1010403 for definitive evidence of the wrap direction.

I have found that the lower bar end is less sensitive to hand motion
while the upper part is, because it undergoes strong hand forces when
climbing. *In any event, I believe from bar end, past the brake hoods
to the stem is the most stable configuration, noting that the wrap
should go in the direction that the rider's gripping thumb points.


I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. *I just
outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the
other way.


If you read my first post for content, you would know that
I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a
problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have
seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped
stem to end.


Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem
to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends
of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of
electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the
edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your
tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar
end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is
if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops
by the stem.


Look at the pictures.
Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling.
The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached,
but the bike is kept indoors. I ride this bike
sans gloves, so you can see that the bends have
gotten some use.

--
Michael Press
  #25  
Old October 2nd 08, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,751
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

Michael Press wrote:

I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. ?I just
outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the
other way.


If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am
not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back
to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape
curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end.


Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from
stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into
the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the
use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up
along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to
believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it
from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not
curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it
with your hands on the tops by the stem.


Look at the pictures. Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling.
The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached, but the bike is kept
indoors. I ride this bike sans gloves, so you can see that the bends
have gotten some use.


http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093

I looked at the picture and noted that at the place where the metal
bar is exposed the tape has torn and is glossy smooth as though it
were coated with something. As is visible, the tape sticks to itself
better than to the bar, and therefore, creeps don the bar, tearing
itself where it is stuck to the next wrap. I think this would be less
this way wrapped the opposite way.

In addition, I believe wrapping in direction of hand twist on the bar
would also help. The reason for this should be apparent. Wrap in
the rotation of the way the user's thumb points when grasping the bar.

My cloth bar tape is dry and rough from riding alternately in hot
sweaty mode and in rain. I have not seen bar tape on any of the
bicycles of people with whom I ride with such a finish on cloth tape.
Even my Cinelli cork tape is matte and etched white from sweat and
water. Your tape, in contrast looks untouched by human hands.

So if you don't stress the tape, it should not curl. If you ride it
long enough, it will rot or oxidize and cause the failure you show.
Back to the future. What is it you are trying to determine?
Apparently you don't want to analyze the mode of failure by wrap
method. So where are we going.

Jobst Brandt
  #26  
Old October 2nd 08, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,202
Default Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.

In article ,
wrote:

Michael Press wrote:

I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. ?I just
outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the
other way.


If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am
not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back
to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape
curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end.


Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from
stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into
the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the
use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up
along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to
believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it
from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not
curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it
with your hands on the tops by the stem.


Look at the pictures. Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling.
The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached, but the bike is kept
indoors. I ride this bike sans gloves, so you can see that the bends
have gotten some use.


http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093

I looked at the picture and noted that at the place where the metal
bar is exposed the tape has torn and is glossy smooth as though it
were coated with something. As is visible, the tape sticks to itself
better than to the bar, and therefore, creeps don the bar, tearing
itself where it is stuck to the next wrap. I think this would be less
this way wrapped the opposite way.


I agree.


In addition, I believe wrapping in direction of hand twist on the bar
would also help. The reason for this should be apparent. Wrap in
the rotation of the way the user's thumb points when grasping the bar.


I will do that.

My cloth bar tape is dry and rough from riding alternately in hot
sweaty mode and in rain. I have not seen bar tape on any of the
bicycles of people with whom I ride with such a finish on cloth tape.
Even my Cinelli cork tape is matte and etched white from sweat and
water. Your tape, in contrast looks untouched by human hands.


Most of it is. Near the stem it is almost untouched.

So if you don't stress the tape, it should not curl. If you ride it
long enough, it will rot or oxidize and cause the failure you show.
Back to the future. What is it you are trying to determine?


As I said. Asking people if they see cotton twill bar tape
curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. I had heard about
it, but not seen it.

Apparently you don't want to analyze the mode of failure by wrap
method. So where are we going.


Yes. That should be obvious, since that is not what I set
out to do. Nevertheless, thanks for analyzing it. Useful.

--
Michael Press
 




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