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#21
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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 11:14:50 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie wrote:
On Oct 1, 10:01*am, Roger Thorpe wrote: _ wrote: It depends on the tape - but there is a neat, simple, cheap solution. Put short sections of inner tube on the bars next the stem. *When wrapping, you start at the end and wrap towards the stem. *At the stem, fold the tube back towrds the stem, finish wrapping, and unfold the tube over the ends of the wrap. Well, I've spent a few years working in a bike shop, wrapped a few handlebars and now work where my job is(supposed to be) to have good ideas, but I've got to say.. "I wish that I'd thought of that." Keep in mind that putting short sections of inner tube on the bars near the stem means that you have to remove the brake levers and untape the cables -- unless you have split-center bars (usually considered a factory defect). I think a couple inches of black electrical tape is more simple. -- Jay Beattie. Yes it is - but the tube is neater, lasts better and is not sticky - and if you are taking the tape off anyway it's five minute to pop the levers off as well. |
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#23
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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.
On Oct 1, 2:32*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article , wrote: Michael Press wrote: Some people say that when cotton twill bar tape is wrapped from the stem to the bar ends the hands on the top bend constantly abrade against the exposed edge of the bar tape making it fray and degenerate more rapidly than if the wrap job is done from the bar end to the stem. *Have any of you seen this kind of fraying? Yes. I have not. For a while I wrapped from bar end to stem, but hated the necessary sticky tape wrap at the stem because it was bulky and not as pretty as a tucked bar tape start, so I went back to wrapping from the stem out. *I have never had the tape fray at the edge. *The tape eventually deteriorates but the edge remains fine. The tape typically fails where it wraps over the underneath edge as in these photographs. It may depend on the tape itself. *IIRC, the Velox or Tressostar was pretty stiff, so the edges didn't "roll over." Cateye, on the other hand, is thin and soft and flexible, and the edges "roll up" when the hands put pressure on it. *That is, you grip the bars and pressure from your arms tends to make your hands slide along the bar, e.g. *from near the bar tops toward the brake hoods. *As your hands slide, the edges roll up and or abrade away. So you want to make sure that any likely sliding of your hands along the bar will lay the tape back down rather than roll it up. Hence, bottom-to-top wrapping. Is Tressostar or the like still in production? *You can get old rolls on Ebay, but I wonder if the adhesive is still functional. I get new rolls of good cotton twill tape from the LBS. *No label.. How about this? Wrapping stem to end puts the tape edges in a place where they resist hand slippage? * That is similar to putting up a shingle roof starting at the top. Years ago when all there was was Tressostar, it became apparent that if the exposed edges of the tape are facing upward (against hand motion) they would curl. *The technique went so far as to tape from the brake hoods to the to top as well as from there to the bar end with the effect of hands on the hooks to slide forward. *http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093 Then you have seen it curl. *It does not curl up under me, as you see in the pictures. *Why is that? Because the tape is wrapped toward the stem from what is visible. That is apparent from the part where there is a gap opening between wraps. No, it is most assuredly wrapped stem to end. And it did not curl at the edge. That is why I went to considerable trouble to take sharp, close, well lighted pictures. See picture P1010403 for definitive evidence of the wrap direction. I have found that the lower bar end is less sensitive to hand motion while the upper part is, because it undergoes strong hand forces when climbing. *In any event, I believe from bar end, past the brake hoods to the stem is the most stable configuration, noting that the wrap should go in the direction that the rider's gripping thumb points. I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. *I just outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the other way. If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. -- Michael Press- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops by the stem. |
#24
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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.
In article
, " wrote: On Oct 1, 2:32*pm, Michael Press wrote: In article , wrote: Michael Press wrote: Some people say that when cotton twill bar tape is wrapped from the stem to the bar ends the hands on the top bend constantly abrade against the exposed edge of the bar tape making it fray and degenerate more rapidly than if the wrap job is done from the bar end to the stem. *Have any of you seen this kind of fraying? Yes. I have not. For a while I wrapped from bar end to stem, but hated the necessary sticky tape wrap at the stem because it was bulky and not as pretty as a tucked bar tape start, so I went back to wrapping from the stem out. *I have never had the tape fray at the edge. *The tape eventually deteriorates but the edge remains fine. The tape typically fails where it wraps over the underneath edge as in these photographs. It may depend on the tape itself. *IIRC, the Velox or Tressostar was pretty stiff, so the edges didn't "roll over." Cateye, on the other hand, is thin and soft and flexible, and the edges "roll up" when the hands put pressure on it. *That is, you grip the bars and pressure from your arms tends to make your hands slide along the bar, e.g. *from near the bar tops toward the brake hoods. *As your hands slide, the edges roll up and or abrade away. So you want to make sure that any likely sliding of your hands along the bar will lay the tape back down rather than roll it up. Hence, bottom-to-top wrapping. Is Tressostar or the like still in production? *You can get old rolls on Ebay, but I wonder if the adhesive is still functional. I get new rolls of good cotton twill tape from the LBS. *No label. How about this? Wrapping stem to end puts the tape edges in a place where they resist hand slippage? * That is similar to putting up a shingle roof starting at the top. Years ago when all there was was Tressostar, it became apparent that if the exposed edges of the tape are facing upward (against hand motion) they would curl. *The technique went so far as to tape from the brake hoods to the to top as well as from there to the bar end with the effect of hands on the hooks to slide forward. *http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093 Then you have seen it curl. *It does not curl up under me, as you see in the pictures. *Why is that? Because the tape is wrapped toward the stem from what is visible. That is apparent from the part where there is a gap opening between wraps. No, it is most assuredly wrapped stem to end. And it did not curl at the edge. That is why I went to considerable trouble to take sharp, close, well lighted pictures. See picture P1010403 for definitive evidence of the wrap direction. I have found that the lower bar end is less sensitive to hand motion while the upper part is, because it undergoes strong hand forces when climbing. *In any event, I believe from bar end, past the brake hoods to the stem is the most stable configuration, noting that the wrap should go in the direction that the rider's gripping thumb points. I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. *I just outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the other way. If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops by the stem. Look at the pictures. Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling. The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached, but the bike is kept indoors. I ride this bike sans gloves, so you can see that the bends have gotten some use. -- Michael Press |
#25
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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.
Michael Press wrote:
I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. ?I just outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the other way. If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops by the stem. Look at the pictures. Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling. The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached, but the bike is kept indoors. I ride this bike sans gloves, so you can see that the bends have gotten some use. http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093 I looked at the picture and noted that at the place where the metal bar is exposed the tape has torn and is glossy smooth as though it were coated with something. As is visible, the tape sticks to itself better than to the bar, and therefore, creeps don the bar, tearing itself where it is stuck to the next wrap. I think this would be less this way wrapped the opposite way. In addition, I believe wrapping in direction of hand twist on the bar would also help. The reason for this should be apparent. Wrap in the rotation of the way the user's thumb points when grasping the bar. My cloth bar tape is dry and rough from riding alternately in hot sweaty mode and in rain. I have not seen bar tape on any of the bicycles of people with whom I ride with such a finish on cloth tape. Even my Cinelli cork tape is matte and etched white from sweat and water. Your tape, in contrast looks untouched by human hands. So if you don't stress the tape, it should not curl. If you ride it long enough, it will rot or oxidize and cause the failure you show. Back to the future. What is it you are trying to determine? Apparently you don't want to analyze the mode of failure by wrap method. So where are we going. Jobst Brandt |
#26
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Wrapping cotton twill bar tape.
In article ,
wrote: Michael Press wrote: I don't know what the problem is you are trying to solve. ?I just outlined the reasons for taping in one direction over taping the other way. If you read my first post for content, you would know that I am not addressing a problem, nor have I identified a problem. Go back to where I asked people if they have seen cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. Long ago, early 1980s, when I used cotton tape I wrapped it from stem to bar end so I could tuck the ends of the cotton tape into the ends of the bar and secure with the bar end plug and avoid the use of electrical tape near the stem. The tape always curled up along the edges as the hands pushed downward. I find it hard to believe your tape does not curl up along the edges if you wrap it from stem to bar end. About the only way on earth it would not curl along its edges is if you never rode the bike or only rode it with your hands on the tops by the stem. Look at the pictures. Wrapped stem to end, heavy use, no curling. The tape near the stem is heavily sun bleached, but the bike is kept indoors. I ride this bike sans gloves, so you can see that the bends have gotten some use. http://gallery.me.com/spress#100093 I looked at the picture and noted that at the place where the metal bar is exposed the tape has torn and is glossy smooth as though it were coated with something. As is visible, the tape sticks to itself better than to the bar, and therefore, creeps don the bar, tearing itself where it is stuck to the next wrap. I think this would be less this way wrapped the opposite way. I agree. In addition, I believe wrapping in direction of hand twist on the bar would also help. The reason for this should be apparent. Wrap in the rotation of the way the user's thumb points when grasping the bar. I will do that. My cloth bar tape is dry and rough from riding alternately in hot sweaty mode and in rain. I have not seen bar tape on any of the bicycles of people with whom I ride with such a finish on cloth tape. Even my Cinelli cork tape is matte and etched white from sweat and water. Your tape, in contrast looks untouched by human hands. Most of it is. Near the stem it is almost untouched. So if you don't stress the tape, it should not curl. If you ride it long enough, it will rot or oxidize and cause the failure you show. Back to the future. What is it you are trying to determine? As I said. Asking people if they see cotton twill bar tape curl at the edge when wrapped stem to end. I had heard about it, but not seen it. Apparently you don't want to analyze the mode of failure by wrap method. So where are we going. Yes. That should be obvious, since that is not what I set out to do. Nevertheless, thanks for analyzing it. Useful. -- Michael Press |
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