Road Bike Review

On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 12:44:19 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 12/21/2020 11:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 12:20:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/20/2020 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Well, it is no surprise that I've had my Road Bike Review account
canceled again. Yet again some guy posted something that was perfectly
reasonable. He apparently had a steel bit that wasn't shifting
correctly, and his suspicion was that the rear derailleur hanger was
misaligned due to a crash.

Rather than taking it into a shop and having it aligned, he bought a
new Park Tool derailleur alignment tool. Well, I wouldn't have spend
$80 on a tool that I would be unlikely to use more than once and which
couldn't be used on aluminum or carbon fiber bikes but that was his choice.

I had the old style alignment tool (and probably still have it
somewhere) that this nothing more than a bar that has a proper thread
on one end. You thread this in and then using a tape measure you check
around the wheel circumference and use the bar to align the hanger.
The Park Tool is rather more complicated but achieves the same thing..

I said that you can do the same thing by eye using a Crescent wrench,
which I have done a million times over the years and which I've
watched shops do as well with no problems.

One of the posters who presents himself as a mechanic stated that you
could distort the threads in the hanger if you did that. Well I
certainly expect you could if you did it improperly but not done in the proper manner.

This gave the three sociopaths in the group (most of whom offer no
real help for those asking questions - often harassing people who ask
perfectly descent questions as inexperienced riders) and opening to
begin telling me things like you could use this tool to straighten
carbon fiber and aluminum hangers as well. Firstly, doing so can
fatigue damage an aluminum hanger (when a replacement hanger from the
dealer only costs $30 and from eBay probably 10% of that) secondly,
that is absolutely forbidden on carbon fiber bikes since it can damage
the entire drop-out and even the chain stay.

As usual, Road Bike Review not having any real technical experts
decides that I'm starting needless arguments and removed my account.
This is just one of the reasons that Road Bike Review has become a thing of the past.

I cannot even believe that they are making enough off of their printed
magazine to pay for their printing and distribution. And when the
largest number of posters on their site is a small group of sociopaths
(shown by the fact that the largest string of postings is from 13
years ago) it appears that they wouldn't be willing to have alternate
opinions from people that do not believe that helping people in a
technical column is something that shouldn't be responded to by not
making comedy responses such as

Q. I am installing a new rear derailleur, should I use grease or Locktite?
A. You should use two part epoxy glue and wait a day for it to harden.

A simple Campagnolo Type R tool is easy to use and as
accurate as anything. There's no reason not to use it (or a
modern pretty anodized version) on an aluminum or carbon end
_within the limits of those materials_. Steel ends can bend
severely, like 25~30 degrees, and bend right back[1].
Aluminum cannot. With carbon there are too many variables to
make any statement categorically.

A realigned aluminum end should be cleaned and observed in a
good light for striations indicating crystal slip=likely
failure. The issue is not the tool, it's bending beyond
reasonable elastic limits of the shape and material.

There's nothing inherently wrong with an adjustable wrench
but it would be quite tedious to bend, install changer,
observe, remove changer, bend again. Why? In the field or
for minor alignments one normally uses an allen key in the
top pivot which is sufficient for most minor biffs.
Intimating that a flat-faced adjustable wrench would damage
threads is reaching if not hyperbole.

[1] 'can' but not necessarily 'will'. Some break, as with
anything.

The specific care I was arguing with them about had the hanger bent 27..5
mm out of true in one direction and something like 5 mm out in the other
plane. This is what they were saying you could bend an aluminum hanger
back into place. I was the one being outrageous for telling them that if
they thought that was safe they were crazy. Especially when you could by
a new hanger in a shop for $30 or if you know the correct one, off of eBay for $3.



Uh, that's about 45 degrees:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/sisendb.jpg

I doubt many aluminum ends could bend that far in one piece
and certainly are unlikely to survive the bend back

Was it 27.5 mm out of true at the end of the dropout, or at the end of the
adjustment tool (eg, at the rim)? The second one might be doable?
It was at the end of the adjustment tool of course. That is still WAY beyond where the shifting would be affected. Particularly on the latest million speed bikes, the slightest misalignment causes them to jump around on the gears.

The front derailleurs are so sensitive that the perhaps 1 mm difference between the common braze-on adapter and the Shimano one completely changes the limit screws and the alignment. I had a very hard time believing it would make that much difference. I also spotted this on bikes with a braze-on built on. They were also too close to the seat tube in several instances easily detectable because the limit screw would be all the way out on one and the other all the way in and it being impossible to get the front derailleur to stop making noise when cross chained.

On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 12:07:13 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 10:19:16 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/21/2020 11:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 12:20:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/20/2020 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Well, it is no surprise that I've had my Road Bike Review account canceled again. Yet again some guy posted something that was perfectly reasonable. He apparently had a steel bit that wasn't shifting correctly, and his suspicion was that the rear derailleur hanger was misaligned due to a crash.

Rather than taking it into a shop and having it aligned, he bought a new Park Tool derailleur alignment tool. Well, I wouldn't have spend $80 on a tool that I would be unlikely to use more than once and which couldn't be used on aluminum or carbon fiber bikes but that was his choice.

I had the old style alignment tool (and probably still have it somewhere) that this nothing more than a bar that has a proper thread on one end. You thread this in and then using a tape measure you check around the wheel circumference and use the bar to align the hanger. The Park Tool is rather more complicated but achieves the same thing.

I said that you can do the same thing by eye using a Crescent wrench, which I have done a million times over the years and which I've watched shops do as well with no problems.

One of the posters who presents himself as a mechanic stated that you could distort the threads in the hanger if you did that. Well I certainly expect you could if you did it improperly but not done in the proper manner.

This gave the three sociopaths in the group (most of whom offer no real help for those asking questions - often harassing people who ask perfectly descent questions as inexperienced riders) and opening to begin telling me things like you could use this tool to straighten carbon fiber and aluminum hangers as well. Firstly, doing so can fatigue damage an aluminum hanger (when a replacement hanger from the dealer only costs $30 and from eBay probably 10% of that) secondly, that is absolutely forbidden on carbon fiber bikes since it can damage the entire drop-out and even the chain stay.

As usual, Road Bike Review not having any real technical experts decides that I'm starting needless arguments and removed my account. This is just one of the reasons that Road Bike Review has become a thing of the past.

I cannot even believe that they are making enough off of their printed magazine to pay for their printing and distribution. And when the largest number of posters on their site is a small group of sociopaths (shown by the fact that the largest string of postings is from 13 years ago) it appears that they wouldn't be willing to have alternate opinions from people that do not believe that helping people in a technical column is something that shouldn't be responded to by not making comedy responses such as

Q. I am installing a new rear derailleur, should I use grease or Locktite?
A. You should use two part epoxy glue and wait a day for it to harden.

A simple Campagnolo Type R tool is easy to use and as
accurate as anything. There's no reason not to use it (or a
modern pretty anodized version) on an aluminum or carbon end
_within the limits of those materials_. Steel ends can bend
severely, like 25~30 degrees, and bend right back[1].
Aluminum cannot. With carbon there are too many variables to
make any statement categorically.

A realigned aluminum end should be cleaned and observed in a
good light for striations indicating crystal slip=likely
failure. The issue is not the tool, it's bending beyond
reasonable elastic limits of the shape and material.

There's nothing inherently wrong with an adjustable wrench
but it would be quite tedious to bend, install changer,
observe, remove changer, bend again. Why? In the field or
for minor alignments one normally uses an allen key in the
top pivot which is sufficient for most minor biffs.
Intimating that a flat-faced adjustable wrench would damage
threads is reaching if not hyperbole.

[1] 'can' but not necessarily 'will'. Some break, as with
anything.

The specific care I was arguing with them about had the hanger bent 27.5 mm out of true in one direction and something like 5 mm out in the other plane. This is what they were saying you could bend an aluminum hanger back into place. I was the one being outrageous for telling them that if they thought that was safe they were crazy. Especially when you could by a new hanger in a shop for $30 or if you know the correct one, off of eBay for $3.

Uh, that's about 45 degrees:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/sisendb.jpg

I doubt many aluminum ends could bend that far in one piece
and certainly are unlikely to survive the bend back
Can you imagine what would occur to a carbon fiber frame if you put that sort of pressure on it? And yet this is what the low grade mechanics believed not only to be possible but a fix. I don't think that these sorts of people have ever worked on a bike except to pump up the tires making them mechanical geniuses.
By the way, depending on the design of the drop out, the frame may see little bending force. On my through-axle bikes, the bending force is seen mostly by the through axle and, of course, the dropout. https://tinyurl.com/ycvyd4cf The replaceable hangers are also pretty soft, for better or worse. They're nothing like steel hangers or the Cannondale plate aluminum of yore. But again, bending the replaceable hangers is just for fine tuning.

While replacing one of those, I discovered that there was a carbon fiber bump under the plate causing a major misalignment. I bought a new hanger before pulling it apart and discovering that and taking a file to it that fixed the misalignment.