New Trek Pricing

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:36 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700,
wrote:

To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to
manufacture in the U.S.

True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial
capacity to foreign countries.

...as the standard of living increases in former counties
with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other
3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to
exploit.

Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly
import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's
volume).

Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended
their order to ship times by a few weeks:

dammit here's the actual link
https://waterfordbikes.com/

DOH! At first glance I read that address as 816 Bobke Ave and
thought WTF is he up to now!?

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
wrote:

DOH! At first glance I read that address as 816 Bobke Ave and
thought WTF is he up to now!?

I'll pretend to ignore the implications of that Freudian slip.

For those unfamiliar with Yiddish or Polish, bobke literally
translates to sheep or goat droppings. It's typically used as an
exclamation of disagreement in the same manner as nonsense, rubbish,
bull s**t, hog wash, etc.

https://waterfordbikes.com
I see the problem. You might suggest to the Waterford Precision
Cycles people to have their web designer change the font to something
that is less compressed and more readable, preferably one that has
some additional white space between the characters. Without my
glasses, the address was unreadable. With the glasses, only slightly
better.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:46:00 -0700,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
wrote:

DOH! At first glance I read that address as 816 Bobke Ave and
thought WTF is he up to now!?

I'll pretend to ignore the implications of that Freudian slip.

For those unfamiliar with Yiddish or Polish, bobke literally
translates to sheep or goat droppings. It's typically used as
an exclamation of disagreement in the same manner as nonsense,
rubbish, bull s**t, hog wash, etc.

That's hilarious! Did not know that, but am not surprised.


https://waterfordbikes.com
I see the problem. You might suggest to the Waterford
Precision Cycles people to have their web designer change the
font to something that is less compressed and more readable,
preferably one that has some additional white space between the
characters. Without my glasses, the address was unreadable.
With the glasses, only slightly better.

Yeah, it's not ideal. On the other hand, I don't care enough
about it to bother saying anything to them. Maybe Andrew does.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:04:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote:

To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture
in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can
make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are
a competent manager of the same quality.

True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity
to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products.
When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to
be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed
in Wisconsin" sticker.

For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm
told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about
US$9..60... a day.

As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are
unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases
in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply
find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to
exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay
scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point.






Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly
import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X
Italy's volume).

Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended
their order to ship times by a few weeks:
https://babe.net/2016/08/25/i-tried-...ar-online-4266

Why not dirty underwear? After all anyone that might buy a pet rock
($7.99 on Amazon) might like a pair of dirty underwear.... at least
one could enjoy the fragrance of the dirty underwear (if that is your
"thing") while a rock does absolutely nothing :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700,
wrote:

To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense
to manufacture
in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the
U.S. you can
make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper
and if you are
a competent manager of the same quality.

True. We have successfully exported most of our
industrial capacity
to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured
products.
When we export most of our research and design, the US
will cease to
be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the
"Designed
in Wisconsin" sticker.

For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the
$10/hour range I'm
told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about
US$9..60... a day.

As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay
imbalances are
unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of
living increases
in former counties with currently low labor rates, they
will simply
find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor
rates to
exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to
equalize the pay
scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point.






Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly
import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X
Italy's volume).

Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended
their order to ship times by a few weeks:

dammit here's the actual link
https://waterfordbikes.com/

I notice that site doesn't seem to include prices... is that to
prevent heart attacks amongst their potential customers?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 4/8/2019 6:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700,
wrote:

To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense
to manufacture
in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the
U.S. you can
make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper
and if you are
a competent manager of the same quality.

True. We have successfully exported most of our
industrial capacity
to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured
products.
When we export most of our research and design, the US
will cease to
be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the
"Designed
in Wisconsin" sticker.

For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the
$10/hour range I'm
told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about
US$9..60... a day.

As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay
imbalances are
unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of
living increases
in former counties with currently low labor rates, they
will simply
find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor
rates to
exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to
equalize the pay
scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point.






Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly
import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X
Italy's volume).

Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended
their order to ship times by a few weeks:

dammit here's the actual link
https://waterfordbikes.com/

I notice that site doesn't seem to include prices... is that to
prevent heart attacks amongst their potential customers?


The accepted wisdom of so-called web experts today is to
start with a popular and functional website and then change
it frenetically and mercilessly until whatever you seek is
hard to find:

https://waterfordbikes.com/pricing/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 5:58:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:09:22 +0700, wrote:

There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory
it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that
the majority was, or something of that nature.

"Complying with the Made in USA Standard"
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
Marketers and manufacturers that promote their products as
Made in USA must meet the "all or virtually all" standard.

Note that this document was scribbled in 1998 and is probably in need
of revision.

So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and
specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done
elsewhere.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
Example: A company designs a product in New York City and
sends the blueprint to a factory in Finland for manufacturing.
It labels the product "Designed in USA - Made in Finland."
Such a specific processing claim would not lead a reasonable
consumer to believe that the whole product was made in the
U.S. The Customs Service requires the product to be marked
"Made in," or "Product of" Finland since the product is of
Finnish origin and the claim refers to the U.S.

Actually this type of design - manufacture process is not uncommon.
Caterpillar, for example, manufacturers several types of their
equipment in Indonesia, Cummins makes several models of their diesel
engines in China, and so on. Both Cat and Cummins give exactly the
same guarantee for the Asian made equipment as they do for the U.S.
made.

I would think that Trek should have labeled their bicycles as
"Made in China - Designed in Wisconsin".

"Are Trek Bikes Made in the USA"?
https://allamericanreviews.com/trek/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Well, how do you suppose they measure that since at least the group set and the tires are made outside of the USA? The most common saddles and seat posts are made outside of America. The most common stems and handlebars are made outside o the USA? Trek probably uses Bontrager seat posts, saddles, stems and bars. I do not believe that they are made in the USA.

On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 7:44:00 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 17:58:09 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:09:22 +0700, wrote:

There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory
it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that
the majority was, or something of that nature.

"Complying with the Made in USA Standard"
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
Marketers and manufacturers that promote their products as
Made in USA must meet the "all or virtually all" standard.

Note that this document was scribbled in 1998 and is probably in need
of revision.

So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and
specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done
elsewhere.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
Example: A company designs a product in New York City and
sends the blueprint to a factory in Finland for manufacturing.
It labels the product "Designed in USA - Made in Finland."
Such a specific processing claim would not lead a reasonable
consumer to believe that the whole product was made in the
U.S. The Customs Service requires the product to be marked
"Made in," or "Product of" Finland since the product is of
Finnish origin and the claim refers to the U.S.

Actually this type of design - manufacture process is not uncommon.
Caterpillar, for example, manufacturers several types of their
equipment in Indonesia, Cummins makes several models of their diesel
engines in China, and so on. Both Cat and Cummins give exactly the
same guarantee for the Asian made equipment as they do for the U.S.
made.

I would think that Trek should have labeled their bicycles as
"Made in China - Designed in Wisconsin".

"Are Trek Bikes Made in the USA"?
https://allamericanreviews.com/trek/

To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture
in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can
make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are
a competent manager of the same quality.

For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm
told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about
US$9..60... a day.
--
cheers,

John B.

I don't think you understand just how much cheap automation America uses anymore. Cars for instance, are build with components that are engineered from the beginning to be molded and used for 10 years worth of vehicles. Each and every component is designed for the least possible part count. It is absolutely amazing to see an automobile assembly line that has 15 stations instead of the old 200.

On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 1:10:00 AM UTC-5, jOHN b. wrote:

When I was first married I used to give my
wife 500 baht (about US$ 25.00 at the time) a month to run the house,
pay the lights and water, etc. Now... I give her about US$775 for the
same purpose.

cheers,

John B.

You still have a wife? I'm guessing your wife is NOT American or western European or from any modern, civilized, democratic, rich type country. I ride with a bunch of dirty old men. All married. I'm guessing their wives would whip the hide off their arse if they tried anything like that.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 21:39:54 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:46:00 -0700,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
wrote:

DOH! At first glance I read that address as 816 Bobke Ave and
thought WTF is he up to now!?

I'll pretend to ignore the implications of that Freudian slip.

For those unfamiliar with Yiddish or Polish, bobke literally
translates to sheep or goat droppings. It's typically used as
an exclamation of disagreement in the same manner as nonsense,
rubbish, bull s**t, hog wash, etc.

That's hilarious! Did not know that, but am not surprised.

To be more accurate, the usual spelling is bubkes which is the plural
form of bobke.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bubkes

https://waterfordbikes.com
I see the problem. You might suggest to the Waterford
Precision Cycles people to have their web designer change the
font to something that is less compressed and more readable,
preferably one that has some additional white space between the
characters. Without my glasses, the address was unreadable.
With the glasses, only slightly better.

Yeah, it's not ideal. On the other hand, I don't care enough
about it to bother saying anything to them. Maybe Andrew does.

It's easy. Just use the form to send them an email:
https://waterfordbikes.com/contact-us/
Be sure to also mention that the light gray text makes some things
even more difficult to read. I have the gamma on my monitor set to
increase contrast and to be rather non-linear. That makes dark lines
darker, and dim lines lighter. With a white background, the light
gray text just fades into the background.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558