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Current recommend for a helmet?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 30th 20, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 11:48:23 AM UTC-8, N8N wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 10:28:40 AM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
N8N wrote:
Good afternoon all,

was just cleaning up when I picked up my bike helmet and one of the
plastic bits just cracked in my hand. Guess it's time for a new one;
especially when I look at it and see a 2008 manufacture date (do as I say
not as I do.) Pretty sure it's a Trek "Vapor".

What to buy? It's not like I can just run down to my LBS and start
trying them on, although if I knew what I wanted, I'm sure I could get it
from them to toss them a little bit of business, but it's all curbside
pickup and by appointment now.

Would like something well ventilated as I'm a damnyankee living south of
the Mason-Dixon, so most of the year it's warmer already than I'd prefer.
Affordable is a plus.

thanks for any advice.


First advice is “duck!”

Second is if the helmet that you had lasted 12 years and you can’t try new
ones, maybe the same model?

That was actually my first thought, but it looks like were I to buy one, it'd be NOS. Doesn't look like Trek even sells their own branded helmets anymore, they are all "Bontrager". Plus, I'm sure advances have been made in the last 10 years. Is there a go to for a relatively inexpensive roadie helmet with good ventilation?

The Q-cell helmet has better ventilation than most helmets these days. Rather than vents the padding is itself a vent.
Ads
  #12  
Old November 30th 20, 12:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 12:28:03 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 1:03 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 8:51:59 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Duane wrote:
N8N wrote:
Good afternoon all,

was just cleaning up when I picked up my bike helmet and
one of the
plastic bits just cracked in my hand. Guess it's time
for a new one;
especially when I look at it and see a 2008 manufacture
date (do as I say
not as I do.) Pretty sure it's a Trek "Vapor".

What to buy? It's not like I can just run down to my LBS
and start
trying them on, although if I knew what I wanted, I'm
sure I could get it
from them to toss them a little bit of business, but it's
all curbside
pickup and by appointment now.

Would like something well ventilated as I'm a damnyankee
living south of
the Mason-Dixon, so most of the year it's warmer already
than I'd prefer.
Affordable is a plus.

thanks for any advice.



First advice is “duck!â€

Second is if the helmet that you had lasted 12 years and
you can’t try new
ones, maybe the same model?

Vaguely related: When should you replace your helmet?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/really-re...110001066.html


It's interesting that the only bit of the article alluding
to relevant data says this:

"... you don’t necessarily need to replace a well cared
for helmet for safety reasons alone, according to Swart.
That recommendation is largely based on research conducted
by engineering firm MEA Forensic, which found in tests of
hundreds of helmets that age did not significantly affect
the performance of the protective foam in helmets up to 26
years old."

And yet the article gives much more ink to "every five years."

(P.S. My cycling caps are holding up very well for much
longer than that.)

I don't know anything about age degradation and impact
resistance in helmets.

But plastics to indeed outgas and also degrade under UV[1]
such that while the manufacturer's "3 to 5 year" life may be
overly cautious, ten years is about it for buckles, visors etc.

Compare to vintage machines (bicycles in particular but cars
& motorcycles too) which may look fine and have
smooth-feeling bearings but the lubricants are shot and will
self-destruct in short order. Bicycle hubs do that as well
as classic car rear gear sets when run, after 40, 50, 60
years, without sufficient lubrication.

[1] and, I assume, other factors besides


A friend has a Trek Madone that appeared to get water into the BB90 and impact the rollers. He never directly washed it with a hose and he never had it out in the rain. The seals appeared to be intact but the rust was over the entire bearing surfaces.

Changing temperatures can cause nearly-enclosed spaces like bottom
bracket to expel air, then inhale air; and with it, moisture. I wonder
if that could have been the mechanism at work in his case.


Well, he does keep the bike in his garage but it hasn't been very humid this year. I suppose this could have happened over a long period but that does say a whole lot for his attention to noises since the push in had become a fall-out.
  #13  
Old November 30th 20, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Current recommend for a helmet?


I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
  #14  
Old November 30th 20, 03:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On 11/29/2020 6:53 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.



Modern helmets use a nylon snap buckle because it can fail
at extreme load to prevent choking. Metal double D-rings
aren't used now for that reason.

Since you, as I, can sew I would imagine bypassing the
convoluted strap path in favor of simply passing the strap
through one buckle loop, then adding some velcro on one side
would do what you want.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old November 30th 20, 03:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On 11/29/2020 6:16 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 1:03 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 8:51:59 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Duane wrote:
N8N wrote:
Good afternoon all,

was just cleaning up when I picked up my bike helmet and
one of the
plastic bits just cracked in my hand. Guess it's time
for a new one;
especially when I look at it and see a 2008 manufacture
date (do as I say
not as I do.) Pretty sure it's a Trek "Vapor".

What to buy? It's not like I can just run down to my LBS
and start
trying them on, although if I knew what I wanted, I'm
sure I could get it
from them to toss them a little bit of business, but it's
all curbside
pickup and by appointment now.

Would like something well ventilated as I'm a damnyankee
living south of
the Mason-Dixon, so most of the year it's warmer already
than I'd prefer.
Affordable is a plus.

thanks for any advice.



First advice is “duck!â€

Second is if the helmet that you had lasted 12 years and
you can’t try new
ones, maybe the same model?

Vaguely related: When should you replace your helmet?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/really-re...110001066.html


It's interesting that the only bit of the article alluding
to relevant data says this:

"... you don’t necessarily need to replace a well cared
for helmet for safety reasons alone, according to Swart.
That recommendation is largely based on research conducted
by engineering firm MEA Forensic, which found in tests of
hundreds of helmets that age did not significantly affect
the performance of the protective foam in helmets up to 26
years old."

And yet the article gives much more ink to "every five years."

(P.S. My cycling caps are holding up very well for much
longer than that.)

I don't know anything about age degradation and impact
resistance in helmets.

But plastics to indeed outgas and also degrade under UV[1]
such that while the manufacturer's "3 to 5 year" life may be
overly cautious, ten years is about it for buckles, visors etc.

Compare to vintage machines (bicycles in particular but cars
& motorcycles too) which may look fine and have
smooth-feeling bearings but the lubricants are shot and will
self-destruct in short order. Bicycle hubs do that as well
as classic car rear gear sets when run, after 40, 50, 60
years, without sufficient lubrication.

[1] and, I assume, other factors besides

A friend has a Trek Madone that appeared to get water into the BB90
and impact the rollers. He never directly washed it with a hose and
he never had it out in the rain. The seals appeared to be intact but
the rust was over the entire bearing surfaces.


Changing temperatures can cause nearly-enclosed spaces like bottom
bracket to expel air, then inhale air; and with it, moisture. I wonder
if that could have been the mechanism at work in his case.


If the Madone is anything like my Domane, the BB is *far* from nearly
airtight.* The FD cable exits the frame under the BB, and there's plenty
of "breathing space" around it to avert any pressure differential.


When I said a nearly enclosed space, I didn't mean to imply it's almost
airtight. That isn't required for the problem to occur. All that's
really required is a suitable volume of air enclosed and a suitable
temperature difference. The presence of liquid water at a suitable inlet
hole helps a lot, but isn't absolutely necessary if temperatures, etc.
are right.

If the bike (or other air container) is warm, the air inside it will be
warm. When that inside air cools it contracts and sucks in outside air.
If there's a drop of water it can inhale, it will do that. Once inside,
it's hard for that water to evaporate.

Even without liquid water, under some conditions the contracting inside
air can inhale humid outside air. That humidity can condense on cool
inner surfaces. Again, that liquid can have a hard time evaporating and
leaving through a small hole.

When we added a balcony to our house, I designed and welded up the
ornamental steel rails. I forgot to leave weep holes in the 1" square
vertical corner posts. In a few years they had accumulated water several
inches deep, which froze and bulged the bottom of the posts. The caps on
those posts were not airtight, but they did overhang the top, so rain
didn't drip in. The water was inhaled.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old November 30th 20, 03:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On 11/29/2020 9:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 6:53 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.



Modern helmets use a nylon snap buckle because it can fail at extreme
load to prevent choking. Metal double D-rings aren't used now for that
reason.

Since you, as I, can sew I would imagine bypassing the convoluted strap
path in favor of simply passing the strap through one buckle loop, then
adding some velcro on one side would do what you want.


Bike helmet straps are amazingly cumbersome to adjust. As a result, few
riders have them properly adjusted "by the book," so to speak. Almost
none have them so tight that only one or two fingers can fit between the
straps and the jaw, as cyclists are told to do. Many have them tilted
back, Easter bonnet style, exposing the forehead.

But it doesn't matter. As long as it's perched somewhere on the head, it
can generate a "saved my life!!!" story. That story is what really matters.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old November 30th 20, 03:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On 11/29/2020 8:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 6:16 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 1:03 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 8:51:59 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/29/2020 10:28 AM, Duane wrote:
N8N wrote:
Good afternoon all,

was just cleaning up when I picked up my bike helmet
and
one of the
plastic bits just cracked in my hand. Guess it's time
for a new one;
especially when I look at it and see a 2008 manufacture
date (do as I say
not as I do.) Pretty sure it's a Trek "Vapor".

What to buy? It's not like I can just run down to my
LBS
and start
trying them on, although if I knew what I wanted, I'm
sure I could get it
from them to toss them a little bit of business, but
it's
all curbside
pickup and by appointment now.

Would like something well ventilated as I'm a
damnyankee
living south of
the Mason-Dixon, so most of the year it's warmer
already
than I'd prefer.
Affordable is a plus.

thanks for any advice.



First advice is “duck!â€

Second is if the helmet that you had lasted 12 years and
you can’t try new
ones, maybe the same model?

Vaguely related: When should you replace your helmet?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/really-re...110001066.html



It's interesting that the only bit of the article
alluding
to relevant data says this:

"... you don’t necessarily need to replace a
well cared
for helmet for safety reasons alone, according to Swart.
That recommendation is largely based on research
conducted
by engineering firm MEA Forensic, which found in tests of
hundreds of helmets that age did not significantly affect
the performance of the protective foam in helmets up
to 26
years old."

And yet the article gives much more ink to "every five
years."

(P.S. My cycling caps are holding up very well for much
longer than that.)

I don't know anything about age degradation and impact
resistance in helmets.

But plastics to indeed outgas and also degrade under UV[1]
such that while the manufacturer's "3 to 5 year" life
may be
overly cautious, ten years is about it for buckles,
visors etc.

Compare to vintage machines (bicycles in particular but
cars
& motorcycles too) which may look fine and have
smooth-feeling bearings but the lubricants are shot and
will
self-destruct in short order. Bicycle hubs do that as well
as classic car rear gear sets when run, after 40, 50, 60
years, without sufficient lubrication.

[1] and, I assume, other factors besides

A friend has a Trek Madone that appeared to get water
into the BB90 and impact the rollers. He never directly
washed it with a hose and he never had it out in the
rain. The seals appeared to be intact but the rust was
over the entire bearing surfaces.

Changing temperatures can cause nearly-enclosed spaces
like bottom bracket to expel air, then inhale air; and
with it, moisture. I wonder if that could have been the
mechanism at work in his case.


If the Madone is anything like my Domane, the BB is *far*
from nearly airtight. The FD cable exits the frame under
the BB, and there's plenty of "breathing space" around it
to avert any pressure differential.


When I said a nearly enclosed space, I didn't mean to imply
it's almost airtight. That isn't required for the problem to
occur. All that's really required is a suitable volume of
air enclosed and a suitable temperature difference. The
presence of liquid water at a suitable inlet hole helps a
lot, but isn't absolutely necessary if temperatures, etc.
are right.

If the bike (or other air container) is warm, the air inside
it will be warm. When that inside air cools it contracts and
sucks in outside air. If there's a drop of water it can
inhale, it will do that. Once inside, it's hard for that
water to evaporate.

Even without liquid water, under some conditions the
contracting inside air can inhale humid outside air. That
humidity can condense on cool inner surfaces. Again, that
liquid can have a hard time evaporating and leaving through
a small hole.

When we added a balcony to our house, I designed and welded
up the ornamental steel rails. I forgot to leave weep holes
in the 1" square vertical corner posts. In a few years they
had accumulated water several inches deep, which froze and
bulged the bottom of the posts. The caps on those posts were
not airtight, but they did overhang the top, so rain didn't
drip in. The water was inhaled.


Right, all that plus freeze expansion once filled with water:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/splitcd2.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old November 30th 20, 11:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:52:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 9:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 6:53 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.



Modern helmets use a nylon snap buckle because it can fail at extreme
load to prevent choking. Metal double D-rings aren't used now for that
reason.

Since you, as I, can sew I would imagine bypassing the convoluted strap
path in favor of simply passing the strap through one buckle loop, then
adding some velcro on one side would do what you want.


Bike helmet straps are amazingly cumbersome to adjust. As a result, few
riders have them properly adjusted "by the book," so to speak. Almost
none have them so tight that only one or two fingers can fit between the
straps and the jaw, as cyclists are told to do. Many have them tilted
back, Easter bonnet style, exposing the forehead.

But it doesn't matter. As long as it's perched somewhere on the head, it
can generate a "saved my life!!!" story. That story is what really matters.


Good Lord! Yet another skill required to properly use a bicycle.
Proper helmet strap adjustment!

I find it rather strange that having been around several "helmeted"
activities, motor racing, sky diving, horse racing, and so on, I never
heard this esoteric skill mentioned.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #19  
Old December 1st 20, 12:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On 11/30/2020 5:57 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:52:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 9:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 6:53 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.



Modern helmets use a nylon snap buckle because it can fail at extreme
load to prevent choking. Metal double D-rings aren't used now for that
reason.

Since you, as I, can sew I would imagine bypassing the convoluted strap
path in favor of simply passing the strap through one buckle loop, then
adding some velcro on one side would do what you want.


Bike helmet straps are amazingly cumbersome to adjust. As a result, few
riders have them properly adjusted "by the book," so to speak. Almost
none have them so tight that only one or two fingers can fit between the
straps and the jaw, as cyclists are told to do. Many have them tilted
back, Easter bonnet style, exposing the forehead.

But it doesn't matter. As long as it's perched somewhere on the head, it
can generate a "saved my life!!!" story. That story is what really matters.


Good Lord! Yet another skill required to properly use a bicycle.
Proper helmet strap adjustment!

I find it rather strange that having been around several "helmeted"
activities, motor racing, sky diving, horse racing, and so on, I never
heard this esoteric skill mentioned.


Oh, it's not easy! The government had to tell you exactly how to do it!

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...g-a-helmet.pdf


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old December 1st 20, 02:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Current recommend for a helmet?

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:27:13 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/30/2020 5:57 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:52:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 9:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2020 6:53 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

I want a helmet with a functioning chin strap -- that is, one I can
tighten or loosen while riding, and most thoroughly *NOT* one that I
have to take the helmet off to adjust, making the adjustment into a
series of wild guesses that may or may not converge.



Modern helmets use a nylon snap buckle because it can fail at extreme
load to prevent choking. Metal double D-rings aren't used now for that
reason.

Since you, as I, can sew I would imagine bypassing the convoluted strap
path in favor of simply passing the strap through one buckle loop, then
adding some velcro on one side would do what you want.

Bike helmet straps are amazingly cumbersome to adjust. As a result, few
riders have them properly adjusted "by the book," so to speak. Almost
none have them so tight that only one or two fingers can fit between the
straps and the jaw, as cyclists are told to do. Many have them tilted
back, Easter bonnet style, exposing the forehead.

But it doesn't matter. As long as it's perched somewhere on the head, it
can generate a "saved my life!!!" story. That story is what really matters.


Good Lord! Yet another skill required to properly use a bicycle.
Proper helmet strap adjustment!

I find it rather strange that having been around several "helmeted"
activities, motor racing, sky diving, horse racing, and so on, I never
heard this esoteric skill mentioned.


Oh, it's not easy! The government had to tell you exactly how to do it!

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...g-a-helmet.pdf


Having read that, I have a question, Teacher. Is it the fact that the
helmet is so difficult to manage or is it that the average wearer is
(well) too awkward to manage?
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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