Brifters On A 9-Speed Deore Triple?

On 11/12/2020 20:46, Mark Hughes wrote:
I would like the wisdom of the great minds here to help me with a
project.

I'm putting together a 2019 Kona Sutra to use as a touring bike.
Originally, it was a Deore triple, 9-speed, with bar end shifters.
At the moment, it is in pieces. The goal is to put brifters on it.

Here's a link to the bike as it was originally sold. I have all the
components listed, except the wheels.

(I bought it from a fellow who tried to set the bike up with
Shimano's GRX components without realizing that the bottom bracket
shell is mountain bike-sized -- 73mm. A 28/38 SLX crankset came
along with everything else.)

I changed the wretched bar end shifters on my Dawes Galaxy with no
trouble at all. Drop in replacement using Tiagra levers, the front is a
triple. It works absolutely fine.

I think the levers are still available.

On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 12:35:56 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 4:22:52 PM UTC-6, Mark Hughes wrote:
If all I'd need (in addition to the brifters) were a 10-speed chain and cassette, maybe going to 10 speeds would be a good idea. I have a couple 10-speed chains, and it would (sort of) future proof the bike.

BUT the rear derailleur is a Shimano Deore SGS, RD-592, which the specs say is 9-speed. The front is an Shimano Alivio, which Shimano says is also 9-speed.
I have 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers with a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. I did a Google search on that rear derailleur and it is $43. I think it is the same RD-592 you already have. So your mountain rear derailleur will work perfectly with 10 speed road STI levers. No need for you to buy a new rear derailleur if you go with 10 speed STI. Your rear derailleur works perfectly. This is what I was talking about. With 9 and 10 STI road and rear derailleurs. STI road 10 works with 9 speed mountain rear derailleur. But 10 speed STI road does not work with 10 speed mountain rear derailleurs.

As for front derailleur, it does not matter. 9 or 10 front derailleurs work the same with all STI. Its best to match the front derailleur double or triple with the number of chainrings on the crank. And best to get a matching double or triple STI. But whether the front derailleur is 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 does not matter much at all.

So going to 10 speed is just buying a 10 speed STI and cassette. You said you already own the 10 speed chain. Amazon has a Shimano 10 speed cassette for $43.10 shipped and some SRAM cassettes for low $50s. I only own 9 and 10 speed bikes now. But if I was building/buying a new bike today, I would not go any lower than 10 speed.

IMO, depending on terrain and use (and fitness and number of chain rings), 9speed is a good choice just because it is so durable. I don't know about cassette/chain availability, but since a lot of ebikes ship with 9speed, I think it will be around for a while. I regret going to 11sp on my commuter, which I did because I wanted hydro-discs. I don't regret the brakes, but the drive train wears too quickly in the rain and muck, and for a relative beater bike, that makes it expensive to maintain. I would miss all the gears with the double compact, but I could live with it for commuting.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/12/2020 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 12:35:56 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 4:22:52 PM UTC-6, Mark Hughes wrote:
If all I'd need (in addition to the brifters) were a 10-speed chain and cassette, maybe going to 10 speeds would be a good idea. I have a couple 10-speed chains, and it would (sort of) future proof the bike.

BUT the rear derailleur is a Shimano Deore SGS, RD-592, which the specs say is 9-speed. The front is an Shimano Alivio, which Shimano says is also 9-speed.
I have 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers with a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. I did a Google search on that rear derailleur and it is $43. I think it is the same RD-592 you already have. So your mountain rear derailleur will work perfectly with 10 speed road STI levers. No need for you to buy a new rear derailleur if you go with 10 speed STI. Your rear derailleur works perfectly. This is what I was talking about. With 9 and 10 STI road and rear derailleurs. STI road 10 works with 9 speed mountain rear derailleur. But 10 speed STI road does not work with 10 speed mountain rear derailleurs.

As for front derailleur, it does not matter. 9 or 10 front derailleurs work the same with all STI. Its best to match the front derailleur double or triple with the number of chainrings on the crank. And best to get a matching double or triple STI. But whether the front derailleur is 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 does not matter much at all.

So going to 10 speed is just buying a 10 speed STI and cassette. You said you already own the 10 speed chain. Amazon has a Shimano 10 speed cassette for $43.10 shipped and some SRAM cassettes for low $50s. I only own 9 and 10 speed bikes now. But if I was building/buying a new bike today, I would not go any lower than 10 speed.

IMO, depending on terrain and use (and fitness and number of chain rings), 9speed is a good choice just because it is so durable. I don't know about cassette/chain availability, but since a lot of ebikes ship with 9speed, I think it will be around for a while. I regret going to 11sp on my commuter, which I did because I wanted hydro-discs. I don't regret the brakes, but the drive train wears too quickly in the rain and muck, and for a relative beater bike, that makes it expensive to maintain. I would miss all the gears with the double compact, but I could live with it for commuting.

About missing all the gears: Yesterday we rode to the grocery store and
back, as heavily laden as I'd ever been. (The Salvation Army ladies
asked "How are you going to fit all that on your bike??!!")

At one point I said to my wife, "You know, I've been riding this bike
for 44 years now!" (It's toured with camping loads in the southern U.S.,
in Great Britain, across Pennsylvania etc.) It's got prehistoric 5 rear
cogs and a half step plus granny chainring setup - so, 15 theoretical
speeds.

But on our way home, it occurred to me: I shift it like a 5 speed, with
only occasional fine adjustment by shifting the front half step. And I
never use the granny any more, because I never climb mountains with a
heavy load using that bike.

Some of us are pretty tolerant of gear ratios or cadence.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 1:35:56 AM UTC-7, wrote:

This is super helpful! Thanks. This seems like a good path forward, rather than investing in 9-speed levers when I'll eventually need to go to 10.

A couple questions.

I have 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers with a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. I did a Google search on that rear derailleur and it is $43. I think it is the same RD-592 you already have. So your mountain rear derailleur will work perfectly with 10 speed road STI levers. No need for you to buy a new rear derailleur if you go with 10 speed STI. Your rear derailleur works perfectly. This is what I was talking about. With 9 and 10 STI road and rear derailleurs. STI road 10 works with 9 speed mountain rear derailleur. But 10 speed STI road does not work with 10 speed mountain rear derailleurs.

I missed it the first time I read this . . . you are using a 9-speed rear derailleur BUT a 10-speed cassette, right? (The the spacing of the 10-speed cogs is tighter than a 9-speed which is why you later mention getting a 10-speed cassette.)

Just curious, do 11-speed STI work with 11-speed mountain rear derailleurs?

As for front derailleur, it does not matter. 9 or 10 front derailleurs work the same with all STI. Its best to match the front derailleur double or triple with the number of chainrings on the crank. And best to get a matching double or triple STI. But whether the front derailleur is 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 does not matter much at all.

Will the 10-speed chain work with the 9-speed chainrings?

So going to 10 speed is just buying a 10 speed STI and cassette. You said you already own the 10 speed chain. Amazon has a Shimano 10 speed cassette for $43.10 shipped and some SRAM cassettes for low $50s. I only own 9 and 10 speed bikes now. But if I was building/buying a new bike today, I would not go any lower than 10 speed.

On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 9:30:57 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

IMO, depending on terrain and use (and fitness and number of chain rings), 9speed is a good choice just because it is so durable. I don't know about cassette/chain availability, but since a lot of ebikes ship with 9speed, I think it will be around for a while. I regret going to 11sp on my commuter, which I did because I wanted hydro-discs. I don't regret the brakes, but the drive train wears too quickly in the rain and muck, and for a relative beater bike, that makes it expensive to maintain. I would miss all the gears with the double compact, but I could live with it for commuting.

-- Jay Beattie.

I hadn't considered this. I didn't think the reduced durability would be terribly apparent. I have an 11-speed bike, but it's only a year old.

On 12/12/2020 8:53 PM, Mark Hughes wrote:
On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 1:35:56 AM UTC-7, wrote:

This is super helpful! Thanks. This seems like a good path forward, rather than investing in 9-speed levers when I'll eventually need to go to 10.

A couple questions.

I have 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers with a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. I did a Google search on that rear derailleur and it is $43. I think it is the same RD-592 you already have. So your mountain rear derailleur will work perfectly with 10 speed road STI levers. No need for you to buy a new rear derailleur if you go with 10 speed STI. Your rear derailleur works perfectly. This is what I was talking about. With 9 and 10 STI road and rear derailleurs. STI road 10 works with 9 speed mountain rear derailleur. But 10 speed STI road does not work with 10 speed mountain rear derailleurs.

I missed it the first time I read this . . . you are using a 9-speed rear derailleur BUT a 10-speed cassette, right? (The the spacing of the 10-speed cogs is tighter than a 9-speed which is why you later mention getting a 10-speed cassette.)

Just curious, do 11-speed STI work with 11-speed mountain rear derailleurs?

As for front derailleur, it does not matter. 9 or 10 front derailleurs work the same with all STI. Its best to match the front derailleur double or triple with the number of chainrings on the crank. And best to get a matching double or triple STI. But whether the front derailleur is 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 does not matter much at all.

Will the 10-speed chain work with the 9-speed chainrings?

So going to 10 speed is just buying a 10 speed STI and cassette. You said you already own the 10 speed chain. Amazon has a Shimano 10 speed cassette for $43.10 shipped and some SRAM cassettes for low $50s. I only own 9 and 10 speed bikes now. But if I was building/buying a new bike today, I would not go any lower than 10 speed.




10 & 11 MTB rear changers have a different cable travel.
Yes Ten chain runs in a 9 system but of course wears faster.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 6:57:19 PM UTC-8, Mark Hughes wrote:
On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 9:30:57 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

IMO, depending on terrain and use (and fitness and number of chain rings), 9speed is a good choice just because it is so durable. I don't know about cassette/chain availability, but since a lot of ebikes ship with 9speed, I think it will be around for a while. I regret going to 11sp on my commuter, which I did because I wanted hydro-discs. I don't regret the brakes, but the drive train wears too quickly in the rain and muck, and for a relative beater bike, that makes it expensive to maintain. I would miss all the gears with the double compact, but I could live with it for commuting.

-- Jay Beattie.
I hadn't considered this. I didn't think the reduced durability would be terribly apparent. I have an 11-speed bike, but it's only a year old.
It's notable with Shimano chains, which is what I've been running. Wippermann or KMC may have a longer life, but the Shimano chains have been the sale table finds lately.
-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 8:53:38 PM UTC-6, Mark Hughes wrote:
On Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 1:35:56 AM UTC-7, wrote:

This is super helpful! Thanks. This seems like a good path forward, rather than investing in 9-speed levers when I'll eventually need to go to 10.

A couple questions.
I have 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers with a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. I did a Google search on that rear derailleur and it is $43. I think it is the same RD-592 you already have. So your mountain rear derailleur will work perfectly with 10 speed road STI levers. No need for you to buy a new rear derailleur if you go with 10 speed STI. Your rear derailleur works perfectly. This is what I was talking about. With 9 and 10 STI road and rear derailleurs. STI road 10 works with 9 speed mountain rear derailleur. But 10 speed STI road does not work with 10 speed mountain rear derailleurs.
I missed it the first time I read this . . . you are using a 9-speed rear derailleur BUT a 10-speed cassette, right? (The the spacing of the 10-speed cogs is tighter than a 9-speed which is why you later mention getting a 10-speed cassette.)


Yes 9 speed Shimano Deore mountain rear derailleur with a 10 speed cassette.. SRAM cassette, but it does not matter. The rear derailleur does not really control the amount of cogs or shifts. Not really but it does kind of matter somewhat. The levers are what control the number of clicks and the shifting. But 9 and 10 Shimano road and mountain rear derailleurs are different I think based on their angle of movement up and down the cassette. But how far the rear derailleur moves side to side is determined by the indexing in the shifter. So somehow it works out a Shimano 9 speed mountain rear derailleur and a Shimano 10 speed STI lever work perfectly to shift up and down a 10 speed Shimano/SRAM cassette. My cassette is 11-32 SRAM ten speed.

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever. Rear derailleurs today are controlled by how far the shift lever allows it to move side to side with each click.


Just curious, do 11-speed STI work with 11-speed mountain rear derailleurs?

Don't know. I only own 9 and 10 speed road bikes. No mountain bikes. No 11 speed. Maybe Andy answered this.


As for front derailleur, it does not matter. 9 or 10 front derailleurs work the same with all STI. Its best to match the front derailleur double or triple with the number of chainrings on the crank. And best to get a matching double or triple STI. But whether the front derailleur is 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 does not matter much at all.

Will the 10-speed chain work with the 9-speed chainrings?

Yes. You can use 10 speed chains on 9 speed chainrings.

So going to 10 speed is just buying a 10 speed STI and cassette. You said you already own the 10 speed chain. Amazon has a Shimano 10 speed cassette for $43.10 shipped and some SRAM cassettes for low $50s. I only own 9 and 10 speed bikes now. But if I was building/buying a new bike today, I would not go any lower than 10 speed.

On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.

THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.