What cycling needs is more rules

On 2/6/2021 2:33 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 4:40:45 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2021 5:34 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 3:01:53 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2021 2:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 12:43:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/5/2021 2:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Arbitrary and capricious, randomly applied, are best!

https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rou...olutely-tucked
I share your indignation! And when I used to play soccer, they wouldn't
let me use my hands! What's up with that?? Talk about random rules!!

Actually, this is the position I wonder about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz7ZMALaCY
It certainly looks more aero, unlike the supertuck. Is it legal?

Andrew, what do you suppose would happen if you're in a "supertuck" passing riders in the peloton and one of the riders pulls out of line to rotate to the back of a string? What becomes of that guy in the supertuck if he is taken down? This isn't a needless rule. It is a safety regulation to protect the rider from potential extreme physical damage. The same with this belly on the saddle position. As he went down the line it was time for the front guy to rotate off so he must have been talking to those people. It would not be legal to use any position that does not allow you full control of the bike under normal conditions. I prefer my racers alive.

Where's the line on that?

"You're out of the saddle over your bars illegally being all
aero and such!"

"No, I'm not. I'm just standing for a moment to change my
back position."

When I started racing, you could be DQ'd for not wearing white socks. What's the deal? Were red socks too fast? Centerline violation! https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...v1/1000x-1.jpg Try baseball: https://www.mlb.com/cut4/c40850544

-- Jay Beattie.


And the ABL officials measured riders' bike shorts length.
Did that make our world better in any way? Which way?

Andrew, we could always cite really stupid rules, but it isn't as if banning the "supertuck" is a bad idea when these people are endangering others in the peloton because they simple cannot have sufficient control to avoid dangerous situations that always arise when you have a peloton riding in close proximity.


If that's the reasoning it would be self regulating at any
rate. Crashed riders don't get to the podium.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 1:06:55 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/6/2021 2:33 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 4:40:45 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2021 5:34 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 3:01:53 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2021 2:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 12:43:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/5/2021 2:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Arbitrary and capricious, randomly applied, are best!

https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rou...olutely-tucked
I share your indignation! And when I used to play soccer, they wouldn't
let me use my hands! What's up with that?? Talk about random rules!!

Actually, this is the position I wonder about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz7ZMALaCY
It certainly looks more aero, unlike the supertuck. Is it legal?

Andrew, what do you suppose would happen if you're in a "supertuck" passing riders in the peloton and one of the riders pulls out of line to rotate to the back of a string? What becomes of that guy in the supertuck if he is taken down? This isn't a needless rule. It is a safety regulation to protect the rider from potential extreme physical damage. The same with this belly on the saddle position. As he went down the line it was time for the front guy to rotate off so he must have been talking to those people. It would not be legal to use any position that does not allow you full control of the bike under normal conditions. I prefer my racers alive.

Where's the line on that?

"You're out of the saddle over your bars illegally being all
aero and such!"

"No, I'm not. I'm just standing for a moment to change my
back position."

When I started racing, you could be DQ'd for not wearing white socks. What's the deal? Were red socks too fast? Centerline violation! https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...v1/1000x-1.jpg Try baseball: https://www.mlb.com/cut4/c40850544

-- Jay Beattie.


And the ABL officials measured riders' bike shorts length.
Did that make our world better in any way? Which way?

Andrew, we could always cite really stupid rules, but it isn't as if banning the "supertuck" is a bad idea when these people are endangering others in the peloton because they simple cannot have sufficient control to avoid dangerous situations that always arise when you have a peloton riding in close proximity.

If that's the reasoning it would be self regulating at any
rate. Crashed riders don't get to the podium.

The guys who got crashed out by them also don't get on the podium, which was Tom's point. Other people's choices can become your problem -- it's like dopes riding on aero bars in a pack.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 4:18:54 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

If that's the reasoning it would be self regulating at any
rate. Crashed riders don't get to the podium.
The guys who got crashed out by them also don't get on the podium, which was Tom's point. Other people's choices can become your problem -- it's like dopes riding on aero bars in a pack.

-- Jay Beattie.

Riders do stupid **** in the peloton all time, and it rarely has anything to do with their position. A well-known no-no is pedaling through a corner. I've been racing since 1987. I can't tell you how many criteriums I've ridden where some knucklehead leans too far while pedaling, takes out his own rear wheel and anyone on his outside. Is there a ban on pedaling through corners? I have scar tissue on both shoulders, both elbows, both hips, and both knees from other guys that couldn't handle their bikes (and yes, a few were my own mis-judgements).

I get the safety aspect, and I suspect it has more to do with the inexperienced copycats in amateur races. If that's the case, i think it's up to national sanctioning bodies to make such rules, rather than the UCI. Personally, I don't see how the top-tube-tuck dramatically affects the ability to handle the bike. What could be problematic is that there is inherently less stability because the center of gravity is shifted so far forward that what might normally be a recoverable incident results in a high-speed crash. This is bike racing, that's a risk you take.

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 4:01:07 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 2:29:54 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 4:18:54 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

If that's the reasoning it would be self regulating at any
rate. Crashed riders don't get to the podium.
The guys who got crashed out by them also don't get on the podium, which was Tom's point. Other people's choices can become your problem -- it's like dopes riding on aero bars in a pack.

-- Jay Beattie.
Riders do stupid **** in the peloton all time, and it rarely has anything to do with their position. A well-known no-no is pedaling through a corner. I've been racing since 1987. I can't tell you how many criteriums I've ridden where some knucklehead leans too far while pedaling, takes out his own rear wheel and anyone on his outside. Is there a ban on pedaling through corners? I have scar tissue on both shoulders, both elbows, both hips, and both knees from other guys that couldn't handle their bikes (and yes, a few were my own mis-judgements).

I get the safety aspect, and I suspect it has more to do with the inexperienced copycats in amateur races. If that's the case, i think it's up to national sanctioning bodies to make such rules, rather than the UCI. Personally, I don't see how the top-tube-tuck dramatically affects the ability to handle the bike. What could be problematic is that there is inherently less stability because the center of gravity is shifted so far forward that what might normally be a recoverable incident results in a high-speed crash. This is bike racing, that's a risk you take.
It's experienced copycats doing it in the pack anytime "the road pitches downward enough to roll a marble." https://www.wsj.com/articles/cycling...ck-11563699600 I don't see a problem super-tucking when soloing off the front, but it is really sketchy in tight quarters. It's a plausible problem, unlike the USCF rule requiring white socks or the other weird rules. People got busted for all sorts of weird rule violations back in the good old days. And then we had our heads enslaved by the helmet rule! And then it became USAC, which sounds nasty!

As for non-racers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzv...l=CyclingToday They're only a threat to the maintenance workers who have to spray them off the tarmac after being run over by a truck with a zillion wheels.


-- Jay Beattie.
The sheer idiocy of that guy pretty nearly got him killed. Since they didn't point the camera back I can only hope he had a case of road rash and not truck smash.

On 07/02/2021 16:35, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 4:01:07 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 2:29:54 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 4:18:54 PM UTC-5, jbeattie
wrote:

If that's the reasoning it would be self regulating at any
rate. Crashed riders don't get to the podium.
The guys who got crashed out by them also don't get on the
podium, which was Tom's point. Other people's choices can
become your problem -- it's like dopes riding on aero bars in a
pack.

-- Jay Beattie.
Riders do stupid **** in the peloton all time, and it rarely has
anything to do with their position. A well-known no-no is
pedaling through a corner. I've been racing since 1987. I can't
tell you how many criteriums I've ridden where some knucklehead
leans too far while pedaling, takes out his own rear wheel and
anyone on his outside. Is there a ban on pedaling through
corners? I have scar tissue on both shoulders, both elbows, both
hips, and both knees from other guys that couldn't handle their
bikes (and yes, a few were my own mis-judgements).

I get the safety aspect, and I suspect it has more to do with the
inexperienced copycats in amateur races. If that's the case, i
think it's up to national sanctioning bodies to make such rules,
rather than the UCI. Personally, I don't see how the
top-tube-tuck dramatically affects the ability to handle the
bike. What could be problematic is that there is inherently less
stability because the center of gravity is shifted so far forward
that what might normally be a recoverable incident results in a
high-speed crash. This is bike racing, that's a risk you take.
It's experienced copycats doing it in the pack anytime "the road
pitches downward enough to roll a marble."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cycling...ck-11563699600
I don't see a problem super-tucking when soloing off the front, but
it is really sketchy in tight quarters. It's a plausible problem,
unlike the USCF rule requiring white socks or the other weird
rules. People got busted for all sorts of weird rule violations
back in the good old days. And then we had our heads enslaved by
the helmet rule! And then it became USAC, which sounds nasty!

As for non-racers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzv...l=CyclingToday
They're only a threat to the maintenance workers who have to spray
them off the tarmac after being run over by a truck with a zillion
wheels.


-- Jay Beattie.
The sheer idiocy of that guy pretty nearly got him killed. Since they
didn't point the camera back I can only hope he had a case of road
rash and not truck smash.

Well since he got up and had a chat with his friends he is either )
Jesus or b) the truck missed him.

That tuck driver had *everything* locked up in the wrong lane. That
must have concentrated the mind. The coach driver probably needed new
pants as well.