Latest gear shift tech

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:46:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

If design simplicity were the goal rather than operational simplicity,
we would still be riding downtube shifters and riding 27 1/4" tires
with Shrader valves.

Operational simplicity is downtube shifters, 27" inch-and-a-quarter
tires, and Presta valves.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Op vrijdag 19 maart 2021 om 02:30:42 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:


More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about technology
changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't much interested?

Not interested, really? He was very interested. He spent a lot of time with his (personal) mechanic. In that time there was not much choice, but I'm sure if he raced in this era he would use wholeheartedly 11-12 speed electronic shifting.

Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need technological advances to win.

I think you are wrong again.

Lou

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:09:35 p.m. UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:21:14 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


Well, there is that famous Eddy quotation.

When presenting Merckx with a bike equipped with the very
new DuraAce SIS Six, Mr Shimano said, "You'll never miss a
shift!"

To which Himself replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I
was 12 years old."
Along those lines I remember an article comparing "modern" bikes with
"old Time" bicycles and some of the riders complaining how "dangerous
it was to take one hand off the handle bar to shift". I can't remember
the article (Frank probably can) but I do remember how strange I
thought it was as I had never owned a multi speed bike that didn't
shift on the down tube :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I can only imagine how dangerous they think it is to eat whilst riding or to remove or put on a bicycling jacket whilst riding.

I guess they use water bags and hose to drink from as it'd be too dangerous to reach for a water bottle and then drink from it whilst riding with just one hand.

Cheers

On 3/18/2021 9:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 6:30:42 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 9:05 PM, James wrote:
On 19/3/21 9:50 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/


When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely his range of
bicycles sold today would reflect that?

https://www.eddymerckx.com/
Well, since hairs always require splitting he

1) Perhaps Eddy _was_ a true believer in down tube shifters (compared to
what? Rod shifters? Bar end shifters?) but _now_ has a different opinion.

2) Or perhaps Eddy still personally prefers down tube shifters (there
are those who do) but realizes that he'd sell far fewer bikes if that
was the default on his bikes.

More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about technology
changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't much interested?
Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need technological advances to win.

A few decades before the Merckx era, races were won and lost based on who did or didn't have a derailleur. During the Merckx era, technology was drillium and maybe a Ti bit and tires. Merckx didn't have a lot of choices, although he apparently believed in the magic of frame builders, considering his allegiance to Ugo, unless he just likes the guy. As for the over-all effect of technology, TdF average speeds are 2-4 mph average over the early Merckx years. It could be better drugs. Who knows.

LeMond's belief in technology got him the win in 1989 -- or Fignon's disbelief cost him the race. Some technology makes a big difference for civilians -- and a lot not. I love STI. Electronic is not a game changer for me. It's kind of neat. Clincher technology is now great, having tried everything starting with the first Elans and Turbos. It probably wasn't until 20 years ago that they really caught up with tubulars. I like discs on my rain bike and commuter. Compact and lots of gears are mitigating my decrepitude and bad knees. I couldn't turn the gears I rode thirty years ago. Ebikes have my wife riding again -- along with a bunch of the old ladies in the neighborhood. It's like ebike old-lady gangs.

-- Jay Beattie.


You're old enough to remember when the advent of integrated
shifters changed race tactics forever. Not seeing a hand
reach down to shift allowed a split second advantage.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/18/2021 10:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

Would a dynamo powered shifting system be acceptable?
If not, trade in your dynamo powered headlight and go back to kerosene
or carbide lanterns.
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia

There is a place where things are less complexicated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2018/06/22/inside-the-u-s-s-national-radio-quiet-zone-where-theres-no-wifi-or-cellphone-service/
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/218976699/enter-the-quiet-zone-where-cell-service-wi-fi-are-banned
No cell phones, wi-fi, microwave ovens, ham radio, high power
broadcasting, cableTV(?), or wireless bicycle shifting systems.
Seems like a Luddites paradise.



Why would anyone fear electricity?

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other...ra/ar-BB1exDqU

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/18/2021 10:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:05:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

Would a dynamo powered shifting system be acceptable?
If not, trade in your dynamo powered headlight and go back to kerosene
or carbide lanterns.
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia

There is a place where things are less complexicated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2018/06/22/inside-the-u-s-s-national-radio-quiet-zone-where-theres-no-wifi-or-cellphone-service/
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/218976699/enter-the-quiet-zone-where-cell-service-wi-fi-are-banned
No cell phones, wi-fi, microwave ovens, ham radio, high power
broadcasting, cableTV(?), or wireless bicycle shifting systems.
Seems like a Luddites paradise.

Goodness! There really is life without a smart phone?


Works for me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/18/2021 10:42 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:46:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

[deleted ]

If design simplicity were the goal rather than operational simplicity,
we would still be riding downtube shifters and riding 27 1/4" tires
with Shrader valves.

Operational simplicity is downtube shifters, 27" inch-and-a-quarter
tires, and Presta valves.



Text quoted above is not mine.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:06:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op vrijdag 19 maart 2021 om 02:30:42 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:

More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about technology
changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't much interested?
Not interested, really? He was very interested. He spent a lot of time with his (personal) mechanic. In that time there was not much choice, but I'm sure if he raced in this era he would use wholeheartedly 11-12 speed electronic shifting.
Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need technological advances to win.
I think you are wrong again.

Lou


it is always curious that the people here believe the myths and rumors about Eddy rather than the man himself.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 6:54:47 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/18/2021 10:42 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:46:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

[deleted ]
If design simplicity were the goal rather than operational simplicity,
we would still be riding downtube shifters and riding 27 1/4" tires
with Shrader valves.

Operational simplicity is downtube shifters, 27" inch-and-a-quarter
tires, and Presta valves.


Text quoted above is not mine.

Indeed it was mine, but she doesn't remember that all of the floor pumps were fitted for using only Shrader valves and that you could fill your bicycle tires at any gas station for free in those days. Presta was this funny ferin standard that no one in the US was interested in.

On 3/19/2021 9:23 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:09:35 p.m. UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:21:14 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


Well, there is that famous Eddy quotation.

When presenting Merckx with a bike equipped with the very
new DuraAce SIS Six, Mr Shimano said, "You'll never miss a
shift!"

To which Himself replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I
was 12 years old."
Along those lines I remember an article comparing "modern" bikes with
"old Time" bicycles and some of the riders complaining how "dangerous
it was to take one hand off the handle bar to shift". I can't remember
the article (Frank probably can) but I do remember how strange I
thought it was as I had never owned a multi speed bike that didn't
shift on the down tube :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I can only imagine how dangerous they think it is to eat whilst riding or to remove or put on a bicycling jacket whilst riding.

I guess they use water bags and hose to drink from as it'd be too dangerous to reach for a water bottle and then drink from it whilst riding with just one hand.

I believe the article John refers to was the one in which several young
racers were asked to compare modern racing bikes with those from the
1980s. (They sang loud praises of more gears, more rigidity, better
aero, etc. but their climbing speeds correlated exactly with total
weight - a fact the author didn't understand.)

Regarding purported "danger" of moving one's hand: How many here have
taken off a jacket while riding? Or taken off a rain cape? Thrown rocks
at a chasing dog? Pushed another cyclist up a hill? "Ghost ridden" a
bike alongside the one you were riding? I've done all those and more.


--
- Frank Krygowski