#11
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tubeless or tubes
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:31:58 PM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 4/5/21 9:03 PM, sms wrote: On 4/4/2021 5:59 PM, Mark cleary wrote: I wonder what most regular cyclist are riding these days. I see so much on tubeless sets up and I have never given it a thought. I don't flat much so I just do not see the benefit at all and really so much easier just putting a tube in. I am I in the minority these days? Deacon Mark If you're a racer and you have a support vehicle following you with spare wheels then definitely go tubeless! Tubeless adoption has not happened except at the high end. It's a lot of trouble and expense to save just a small amount of weight. I'm losing this. We are talking tubeless and not tubular right? Correct. I think that I went through this about tubulars before. The advantage of tubulars is that they are glued onto the rims. If you get a flat you don't have the tire flipping off the the rim and crashing you. They also have the advantage that if you are a pro mechanic and you give a rider a change you can take the wheel into the car with you, pull on a pre-glued tire, fill it from a cartridge and lean out the window and place the repaired tire on the rack. Since everyone is presently using different wheels this means that you have to have your own wheels for your own riders and neutral support isn't very helpful anymore. There is absolutely NO reason to use tubulars on a crit. Tubeless have a lower rolling resistance. And they fit so tight that it is extremely unlikely that they would slip off of the rim like a clincher might. |
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#12
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 3:14 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Here's my guess: Unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles and Joerg, most bicyclists are concerned with rolling resistance, whether they know that or not. That means they would reject a super-thick tire even if it were more flat proof. And unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles, flat tires on bikes are pretty easy to repair on one's own, by the side of the road. So most bicyclists accept getting the occasional flat and just dealing with it. When they hear the benefits touted for bike tubeless, they doubt they're worth adopting a new system. And that's even before they hear about the detriments, like flats that still occur, general messiness, etc. Again, that's my guess. I suppose someone selling bikes could say more about customer viewpoints. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#13
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tubeless or tubes
On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 17:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote: I wonder what most regular cyclist are riding these days. I see so much on tubeless sets up and I have never given it a thought. I don't flat much so I just do not see the benefit at all and really so much easier just putting a tube in. I am I in the minority these days? Deacon Mark I don't ride much these days, but when I ride, it's with inner tubes. For my low end bicycles and minimal riding, I don't see slightly lower rolling resistance as a worthwhile benefit, especially if it requires a different rim. Besides the lower rolling resistance for tubeless, there are other benefits, detriments, and trade-offs: https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/tubed-vs-tubeless.html I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#14
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tubeless or tubes
Op maandag 5 april 2021 om 23:14:43 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/5/2021 3:14 PM, bob prohaska wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Here's my guess: Unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles and Joerg, most bicyclists are concerned with rolling resistance, whether they know that or not. That means they would reject a super-thick tire even if it were more flat proof. And unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles, flat tires on bikes are pretty easy to repair on one's own, by the side of the road. So most bicyclists accept getting the occasional flat and just dealing with it. When they hear the benefits touted for bike tubeless, they doubt they're worth adopting a new system. And that's even before they hear about the detriments, like flats that still occur, general messiness, etc. Again, that's my guess. I suppose someone selling bikes could say more about customer viewpoints. -- - Frank Krygowski Everyone using tubeless tyres with goop will tell you they are great sealing small leaks and they are. They change their opinion after the first big cut the goop can't seal. Lou |
#15
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tubeless or tubes
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/5/2021 3:14 PM, bob prohaska wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Here's my guess: Unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles and Joerg, most bicyclists are concerned with rolling resistance, whether they know that or not. That means they would reject a super-thick tire even if it were more flat proof. And unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles, flat tires on bikes are pretty easy to repair on one's own, by the side of the road. So most bicyclists accept getting the occasional flat and just dealing with it. When they hear the benefits touted for bike tubeless, they doubt they're worth adopting a new system. And that's even before they hear about the detriments, like flats that still occur, general messiness, etc. Again, that's my guess. I suppose someone selling bikes could say more about customer viewpoints. Tubeless is very popular with MTB and CX riders because it allows very low pressures without pinch flats, and with CX, it is still more convenient than tubulars. Specialized dumped road tubeless in two popular wheels in its OE Roval line because of end user difficulties (phrased somewhat differently in the article): https://cyclingtips.com/2020/06/rova...st-clx-wheels/ Whatever benefit there was with rolling resistance, it was far outweighed by issues inherent in the technology which requires more development -- or something. I regret owning tubeless ready rims (HED Belgiums) because the tire beads weld to the seats -- they have shallow rim beds and are difficult to mount and remove tires. Great wheels but mounting and removing tires is a battle.. -- Jay Beattie. |
#16
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:28:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/4/2021 8:59 PM, Mark cleary wrote: I wonder what most regular cyclist are riding these days. I see so much on tubeless sets up and I have never given it a thought. I don't flat much so I just do not see the benefit at all and really so much easier just putting a tube in. I am I in the minority these days? I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. The bike industry, including bike magazines, always have to hype _something_ new. Don't confuse hype with actual benefits or actual practice. But, but! It's NEW! It's gotta be better! -- Cheers, John B. |
#17
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. |
#18
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms
wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#19
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 2:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:14:21 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Thanks for reading, bob prohaska Bob, Tubeless tires are a real bear to get on and off these days. And they are messy and you have to change the sealant at the very least once a year. And they STILL get serious flats if not minor ones So you have to carry a regular repair kit with a tube etc. There is an advantage to Time Trialists since the tires are lighter and have less rolling resistance. But other than that I see no real advantage that isn't offset by a real disadvantage. Lighter? A Michelin road tube is 65 grams. Four ounces of latex (minimum dose)is nearly twice that, plus a heavier valve assembly and on some rims a heavier rim liner as well. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#20
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 4:49 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op maandag 5 april 2021 om 23:14:43 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski: On 4/5/2021 3:14 PM, bob prohaska wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Here's my guess: Unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles and Joerg, most bicyclists are concerned with rolling resistance, whether they know that or not. That means they would reject a super-thick tire even if it were more flat proof. And unlike cars, trucks and motorcycles, flat tires on bikes are pretty easy to repair on one's own, by the side of the road. So most bicyclists accept getting the occasional flat and just dealing with it. When they hear the benefits touted for bike tubeless, they doubt they're worth adopting a new system. And that's even before they hear about the detriments, like flats that still occur, general messiness, etc. Again, that's my guess. I suppose someone selling bikes could say more about customer viewpoints. -- - Frank Krygowski Everyone using tubeless tyres with goop will tell you they are great sealing small leaks and they are. They change their opinion after the first big cut the goop can't seal. Lou +1 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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