Can you make it to the market on a bike?

Wayne Pein writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

Wayne Pein writes:

So, the idiot Wayne Pein thinks people are "sheep" for pointing out
that state laws that are (a) constitution, (b) passed by the
legislature, and (c) signed by the governor are legitimate laws!
Rather than admit the obvious, Pein goes for an infantile ad hominem
argument. How childish can you get?


Zauman,

You're a crybaby sheep bike lane apologist. You can't recognize an
illegitimate law, or have the courage to stand up to it. For you, if
it's written it must be legitimate. Signed by the Girlyman governor!

Did you pass your high school civics class? It wouldn't surprise me
if you didn't given that you are acting like a child. How old are
you, anyway?

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
...
Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
lane stripe is.

The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
out of the bike lane?"

Except it is not true - that is simply a bogus argument some people
have put out. Look up the California Driver's Handbook
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm and
specifically http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm#bike:

"Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and
responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the
right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share
the road with other drivers."

Also http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs22thru25.htm#bike_ln:

"A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either
side of the street, four or more feet from the curb. The white
line will usually be broken near the corner and the words
"BIKE LANE" will be painted in the lane. When you are making a
right turn and are within 200 feet of the corner or other
driveway entrance, you must enter the bike lane for the
turn. Do not drive in the bike lane at any other time."

You have to read this handbook to pass the California driver's test.
Drivers know what the rules are. If they harrass you anyway, it is
not because they weren't taught the rules. It's because they don't
care.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
...
Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
lane stripe is.

The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
out of the bike lane?"

Except it is not true - that is simply a bogus argument some people
have put out. Look up the California Driver's Handbook
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm and
specifically http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm#bike:

"Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and
responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the
right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share
the road with other drivers."

Also http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs22thru25.htm#bike_ln:

"A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either
side of the street, four or more feet from the curb. The white
line will usually be broken near the corner and the words
"BIKE LANE" will be painted in the lane. When you are making a
right turn and are within 200 feet of the corner or other
driveway entrance, you must enter the bike lane for the
turn. Do not drive in the bike lane at any other time."

You have to read this handbook to pass the California driver's test.
Drivers know what the rules are. If they harrass you anyway, it is
not because they weren't taught the rules. It's because they don't
care.

Bah. I don't believe it for a second. Most drivers learn enough of the
rules to pass the written test ONCE while in their teens. The average
driver has likely not been forced to learn the rules of the road in 25
years. Furthermore, most driver education classes do not even mention
bicycles (mine didn't).

If it were up to me, those without a basic understanding of
kinematics, dynamics, theoretical vehicle handling and a comprehensive
grasp of not only the traffic law but the fundamental principles and
historical basis of right-of-way would not be allow to operate motor
vehicles.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article .com,
donquijote1954 wrote:

On Jul 31, 7:53 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
wrote:

Big Billy also needs to be taught a lesson. Videotaping the behavior
would be a good start. Send the video to the local police, and if that
does not help, send it to all the local television stations. Complain
to the police commission, alderman, mayor, etc, and make yourself a
nuisance until someone does something.


I saw somewhere I video camera that attaches to your helmet. That
would come real handy, but it would turn you into a vigilante fighting
the bad guys on the road. And that would make you more crazy than
DonQuixote fighting the windmills as there too many reckless drivers
out there.

Nah. Here's how Don Quixote, equipped only with his trusty video camera
(we'll call it "Sancho") would operate:

1) obnoxious behaviour recorded
2) without confronting the driver, a copy of the incident is sent to the
police as an adjunct to a formal complaint.

There is no step 3,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
...

You have to read this handbook to pass the California driver's test.
Drivers know what the rules are. If they harrass you anyway, it is
not because they weren't taught the rules. It's because they don't
care.

Bah. I don't believe it for a second. Most drivers learn enough of the
rules to pass the written test ONCE while in their teens. The average
driver has likely not been forced to learn the rules of the road in 25
years. Furthermore, most driver education classes do not even mention
bicycles (mine didn't).

You have to take a written test more frequently than that in California.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#RENEW mentions that if you are
renewing, you may have to take a written exam. They don't require it
every time, but even with an excellent driving record, you may still
have to take it every so often.

The California DMV includes bicycle-related questions on all written
tests, so you better know the material.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

donquijote1954 wrote:

One basic reason YOU NEED BIKE LANES is that when you don't have them,
YOU ARE LEFT WITH NO LANES.

And as I know from mostly not having any bike lanes, that's not actually
a problem. I know that from real, empirical experience.

Here it comes again: we know bike lanes are not a Big Win, because their
real world track record shows us that they are typically more dangerous
than the roads. I know you don't want to hear that, but closing your
ears doesn't make it go away.

THE CARS THINK (AND ACT) LIKE THEY OWN THE
LANES, all of them.

You're greatly exaggerating.
For a start, many, many cyclists are drivers too, and they don't have
their minds magically morphed into a Jekyll/Hyde thing by getting into
their cars. IME (which is on Planet Earth) I get consideration from
drivers when I show it in return, and we co-exist very well for the most
part.

Yes, there are some idiots who'll sit behind you and honk at you, but
they won't run you down, because it might scratch the paintwork. If you
push people off into bike lanes as a rule they will be far more maligned
and looked down upon on the instances where they have no choice to use
the roads, if they're typically in a bike lane instead.

They don't help. We know they don't help as we can see them not
helping. *HAVE YOU GOT THAT YET?*

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

donquijote1954 wrote:
... I can ride leisurely my cruiser with huge baskets to the
supermaket through some quiet, safe streets, about 0.7 mile.

Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule....
... Great places are within biking
distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.....


The problem with this plan is that typically "the squeaky wheel gets the
grease". The only way that gov't would know that a bike lane was even
necessary was if there were lots of complaints of motorists being held
up by bicyclists.

Where I live the only roads prohibited for bicycles are interstate
highways; every other road is legal and free. Get a good rear-view
mirror, get out there, and get in the way. Every motorist that gets
****ed off at you for slowing them down is one more "advocate" for bike
lanes.
~

"DougC" wrote in message
...
donquijote1954 wrote:
... I can ride leisurely my cruiser with huge baskets to the
supermaket through some quiet, safe streets, about 0.7 mile.

Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule....
... Great places are within biking
distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.....


The problem with this plan is that typically "the squeaky wheel gets the
grease". The only way that gov't would know that a bike lane was even
necessary was if there were lots of complaints of motorists being held
up by bicyclists.

Based on the bicycle militants posting here, bicycles do not "hold up"
cars.

On Jul 31, 10:29 pm, (Bill Z.) wrote:
Wayne Pein writes:
Bill Z. wrote:

ROTFLMAO - classic projection just as I said! You are the guy
spewing all the venom! You are reduced to acting like a little
boy spouting insults. And over what? Bike lanes? Grow up.

Damn, you are fool. Get off the floor Zauman!

(Of course, being embarassed by his behavior, Pein snipped his
infantile insults before replying.)

Pein, why don't you get some professional help for your problem? You
might start with an anger-management class, although a psychiatrist
might be able to give you a more apropos suggestion.

If a psychiatrist can help a caveman, he should benefit from it. Bike
lanes are so easy even a caveman can do it!

On Jul 31, 10:39 pm, (Bill Z.) wrote:
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman writes:

Bill Zaumen wrote:
...
Pein has yet to explain why a bike lane stripe is worse than a
shoulder stripe place a foot or two to the right of where the bike
lane stripe is.

The bicycle lane leads motor vehicles operators (who are not cyclists)
to believe that cyclists should be confined to bike lanes, bike paths,
etc. This creates an especial difficulty when needing to make a left
turn [1], since the cagers wonder "what the hell is the cyclist doing
out of the bike lane?"

Except it is not true - that is simply a bogus argument some people
have put out. Look up the California Driver's Handbook
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc.htm and
specifically http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm#bike:

The cavemen driving out there are not THAT stupid. They just want to
use their vehicles as clubs.