Wife & Whether to Helmet or not to Helmet

On 28.04.06 19:40 wrote:

The only person I've known to die in a bicycle accident was
the uncle of a friend, who broke his neck on a bicycle path
while wearing his helmet, probably by landing in just the
wrong way after his front metal fender broke and grabbed his
front tire.

Not wanting to involve myself deeply in this discussion, I would just
like to throw in a couple of examples from my own country, demonstrating
that people do indeed die from bike accidents. And that the cause of
death may definitely be head trauma.

Of course, these single incidents are purely anecdotal, there is no
control group nor other forms of statistiscs and in one of the two
deaths, it is not clear wether or not the deceased was wearing a h****t.
This is thus not a contribution to the ongoing discussion about one
should wear a h****t or not.

May 06, 2003:
A 14 year old boy dies from massive head trauma after being hit by a car
while riding a bicycle.
http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/trondh...ticle63149.ece

Oct 13, 2004:
15 year old girl dies after being hit by a bus. Her friend riding on the
rear rack managed to jump off before the impact. The deceased did not
wear a h****t.
http://www.budstikka.no/sec_nyheter/article12043.ece

Nov 02, 2005:
15 year old girl suffers major head trauma after colliding with another
bicycle.
http://www3.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/...g/5199852.html

So, Carl, now you know about three deaths in bicycle accidents.

And, by the way, purely from my own observations, where I live, kids
generally use a h****t, teenagers and students generally do not wear a
h****t unless they are active cyclists, while the adult population is
divided roughly 50/50.

Cheers,
--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '01 Trek Fuel 90, '96 Trek 850

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)c2i(DOT)net
WWW http://home.c2i.net/storker_moe/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

On 1 May 2006 21:46:02 -0700, "Jay Beattie"
wrote:


wrote:
Richard B wrote:


I always wear a helmet...

I seriously doubt that.

... class 1 trail or not, accidents are accidents
and by definition are not foreseeable.

But only bicycle accidents deserve helmets, right?

Yawn. Really Frank, you need new material.

No, he is exactly on point -- even if bicycle helmets worked as well
as they are made out to, the stuff Richard B wrote is exactly the
logical flaw with the "always wear a helmet" crowd.

We were having the usual helmet nonsense debate in a discussion group
in my city, and the second day of the debate the news had an article
about a guy who died falling down the stairs. He was running, so of
course the "wise" pro-helmet" crowd said he shouldn't have been
running, and so there is no need to suggest a helmet for him. But
their comments show the fact that they treat cycling different than
other activities. Which is lame.

JT

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On Tue, 02 May 2006 05:51:15 -0000, Richard B
wrote:


I do _always_ wear a helmet.

There is almost no need to wear a helmet in bed. It's really safe
enough (unless you're sleeping in the street, I guess). I've never
heard of anyone ever getting hit or falling hard enough to crack their
skull while in bed.

Or at least in a normal bed -- I'm assuming you're in a normal bed
and not a loft bed or top of a bunk bed. I guess if you're in a loft
bed or bunk bed a helmet makes sense.

What kind of bed do you use?

JT

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On Tue, 02 May 2006 10:44:02 +0200, Størker Moe
wrote:

So, Carl, now you know about three deaths in bicycle accidents.

If I can pull out some pedestrian or car passenger accidents that
result in death from head trauma, will you urge people in cars or
walking to use helmets?

JT

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On 02.05.06 13:26 John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 10:44:02 +0200, Størker Moe
wrote:

So, Carl, now you know about three deaths in bicycle accidents.

If I can pull out some pedestrian or car passenger accidents that
result in death from head trauma, will you urge people in cars or
walking to use helmets?

*sigh*

You didn't listen, did you? OK, one. more. time.:

On 02.05.06 10:44 Størker Moe wrote:
On 28.04.06 19:40 wrote:

The only person I've known to die in a bicycle accident was
the uncle of a friend, who broke his neck on a bicycle path
while wearing his helmet, probably by landing in just the
wrong way after his front metal fender broke and grabbed his
front tire.

Not wanting to involve myself deeply in this discussion, I would just
like to throw in a couple of examples from my own country, demonstrating
that people do indeed die from bike accidents. And that the cause of
death may definitely be head trauma.

Of course, these single incidents are purely anecdotal, there is no
control group nor other forms of statistiscs and in one of the two
deaths, it is not clear wether or not the deceased was wearing a h****t.

_This_is_thus_not_a_contribution_to_the_ongoing_di scussion_about_[wether]_one_
_should_wear_a_h****t_or_not_.

My reply was to Carl's implication that hardly anyone dies in bike accidents. My point was that deadly bike accidents do happen, period.

Because bike accidents with resulting head trauma do happen, some of us chooses to wear a h****t. Maybe because it pleases us, maybe because we like to look like dorks, maybe because *we* are those suckers who are born every minute or maybe because we believe someone who claims that h****ts may make a difference in *some* instances.

Now, read my lips: I DID NOT *URGE* ANYONE TO WEAR A H****T, AND I DID NOT URGE ANYONE *NOT* TO WEAR ONE.

OK? Thanks.

Signing off to go troll hunting with my trusty big ol' troll rifle...

--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '01 Trek Fuel 90, '96 Trek 850

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)c2i(DOT)net
WWW http://home.c2i.net/storker_moe/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Jay Beattie wrote:
wrote:
Richard B wrote:


I always wear a helmet...

I seriously doubt that.

... class 1 trail or not, accidents are accidents
and by definition are not foreseeable.

But only bicycle accidents deserve helmets, right?

Yawn. Really Frank, you need new material.

Oh, I've got plenty in reserve. But as long as those promoting helmets
persist in the same trite propaganda, they'll get the same rebuttals.

Part of the problem is there's a steady stream of newbie helmet
missionaries. Each thinks he's using unique wit and unassailable
logic, but it's always the same mindless drivel we've heard before.

BTW, are you aware that there are helmet promotion web pages that
actually coach their readers to insult non-wearers with such drivel?

- Frank Krygowski

Richard B wrote:
wrote in
ups.com:


Richard B wrote:


I always wear a helmet...

I seriously doubt that.

I do _always_ wear a helmet.
I _always_ wear a seatbelt when I'm the car; passenger or driver.
When I rode a motorcycle I _always_ wore a Shoei full face helmet, boots
and gloves.

Stop and think, Rich. Are you wearing your helmet right now?

Were you wearing your helmet when you were in bed asleep last night?

If not, you do NOT always wear your helmet. You take it off when you
judge there's not much risk of head injury. (If that's not true, you
need some serious counseling.)

But to move beyond debates on mis-statements, how often do you really
wear your helmet when there _is_ some significant risk of head injury?

Try digging out some data on the sources of serious head injury. Keep
in mind that despite seat belts and air bags, motoring is still the
number one source of brain injury fatalities. Falls around the home
are the number two source. Yet I'll bet you don't wear a helmet in
those situations.

If you prefer to think in terms of serious or fatal brain injuries per
hour of activity, you'll still have trouble. From data I've seen,
walking near traffic is significantly worse by that measure than
bicycling. But I'll bet you walk city streets with no helmet.

In fact, my bet is you haven' t thought about this at all. You've just
jumped on the "Bicycling is dangerous!" bandwagon, and you've decided
that you must never, never _bicycle_ without a helmet. But other
equivalent head injury risks don't even phase you.

Now, slap that helmet on before you walk down stairs!

- Frank Krygowski

Størker Moe wrote:
On 28.04.06 19:40 wrote:

Not wanting to involve myself deeply in this discussion, I would just
like to throw in a couple of examples from my own country, demonstrating
that people do indeed die from bike accidents. And that the cause of
death may definitely be head trauma.

You don't state which country, but I'll note some points from America.

In this country, there are indeed people who die from bike accidents.
Roughly 700 per year, lately. Of these, helmet proponents are quick to
say "65% [or some such proportion] involve head injury."

Now that's always struck me as suspicious. If a cyclist dies with a
crushed chest and a scratch on the forehead, does that "involve" head
injury? I suspect it does. IOW, I suspect that a perfectly protected
head will not save 65% of the fatalities.

But still: are there not other sources of accidental head injury
death? Of course!

Do cyclists comprise a large proportion of head injury deaths?
Absolutely not. In fact, by any standard method of accounting,
cyclists are a negligible proportion of such deaths.

In America, odd as it seems, there is no definitive count of head
injury deaths. But I did find one serious research paper that
attempted to estimate the number. Briefly, the best estimate is
something like 60,000 such deaths per year. (Some estimates double
that.)

It's very clear that cyclists are less than 1% of the head injury
deaths in the US.

Could helmets prevent the _other_ head injury deaths, the 99% that are
not cyclists? Certainly, they could prevent _some_.

Why are we focusing on 1%, and ignoring the 99%?

Is it because we actually _intend_ to scare people away from riding
bicycles?

- Frank Krygowski

Last year I was struck by a car. I heard my helmet hit the hood of the
car and then the ground. Would it have killed me without the helmet, I
doubt it but did the helmet save me some pain I think so. It's a matter
of choice sort of like when I was single I used condoms.

Greg Nuspel wrote:
Last year I was struck by a car. I heard my helmet hit the hood of the
car and then the ground. Would it have killed me without the helmet, I
doubt it but did the helmet save me some pain I think so. It's a
matter of choice sort of like when I was single I used condoms.

Now if THAT ain't a thread ender...

Bill "no one can PROVE condoms prevent pregnancies, diseases, etc." S.

OFFICIAL STALEMATE DECLARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!