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Trailer hitches



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 4th 14, 03:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Trailer hitches

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Monday, March 3, 2014 12:02:31 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:


Any comments or insight into which of these methods would work best for
a fairly heavy duty application? I think #3 is out for physics reasons
and #4 is out for construction reasons. I suspect #1 is the easiest to
build, but that #2 might be a little stronger. Then again, #2 might
exert more torque on the bike frame. If you have real world experience
you can share, that might be even better. Thanks.


I have (significant) experience only with the left side rear axle hitch
scheme,
your #1. It seems to have become the most common for two wheel trailers. I
haven't used any 200 pound, self-powered trailer, but I've ridden a few
hundred
miles with luggage towed behind a Bike Friday. I've had no significant
problems.
Neither has my good friend who used that scheme to haul his large dog for
many,
many hundreds of miles.


Well, that's one good data point. I'm thinking of this as a way to
introduce my wife to bike touring, so I don't want to be wrestling with
the bike for hours on end. I recall when my daughter was still on her
Trail-a-bike, I would come back from rides with sore arms from
counteracting the torque from my daughter rocking back and forth on the
seat.

I don't think you'll have a problem due to the asymmetry of the hitch. Yes,
in
the top view, you'll see a counterclockwise torque when the trailer is being
towed, and a clockwise one when the powered trailer is pushing the bike. But
the moment arm is small, and the necessary resisting lateral force from the
front tire should be very small. I certainly never noticed any instability
when braking my bike+trailer on a steep downhill, and that situation is
similar to your "powered trailer" mode.


Asymmetry doesn't bother me a lot on #1 because you may as well offset
the tongue anyway so the force is applied inline with the center line of
the bike. My concerns with #1 are more that stresses are being applied
to only one chainstay. I suppose if the rear QR is tight enough, some
of the force should get transferred through the axle to the right-hand
chainstay.

Further thoughts on scheme #3, the seatpost mount: It requires a lot more
metal for the tongue, and for the weights you're describing, might give
an opportunity for some serious flexing. It will be a bigger trailer overall,
perhaps complicating storing and transporting.

There's a modified version of your #2 that's been used, essentially a
stretched
tetrahedron supporting a hitch point just behind the bottom of the rear
fender. Picture an extra pair of stays, roughly parallel to the chainstays
and extending from the rear dropouts to a dummy rear axle behind the fender.
Now run a pair of stays from the seatpost or seat cluster down to that dummy
rear axle, to keep it at the proper height. That's sketched in the
"Cycling with Love" chapter of _Effective Cycling_, towing a kid's bike.
With your trailer, the hitch could be a ball & socket. But I don't see any
great advantage over the left-side axle hitch.


I've got a design sketched up that uses an MTB front fork clamped into
the rear QR, plus some aircraft cable going up over the seatpost to
build your stretched tetrahedron. As long as the hitch point doesn't
flip upwards, it should be stable.

I've got a couple other books with trailer designs that I could describe.
But I think you're well beyond due diligence in examining prior art. By
this stage, the crusty old guy who taught me machine shop techniques would
be yelling "Just do it!"

(That was way before Nike said that, BTW. He should have copyrighted it.)


I tend to be of the "Measure twice, cut once, f#$k it up anyway" school,
so I try to design things a little more thoroughly before I start
building.

- Frank Krygowski

Ads
  #12  
Old March 4th 14, 03:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Trailer hitches

In article ,
James wrote:

On 03/03/14 16:02, Ralph Barone wrote:
I'm (still) working on the design for a "recumbent trailer trike",
essentially a delta trike with no front wheel, but a hitch which will
connect to my diamond frame bike. I've got a lot of the details worked
out, but I'm still agonizing over the hitch design. The trailer will
have brakes and a drive train, so it will be capable of both pushing and
pulling, and by the time we add the weight of the trailer, rider and
storage (this is for touring), we might be nearing 200 lbs being pulled
by the hitch (tongue load should be substantially lower if I get the
seat location right).

As I see it, there are 4 options in terms of hitch location.

1) Asymmetrical rear axle mount. Like most of the Burley trailers. A
small hitch is attached to the left side of the axle and the trailer
mounts there. The advantage is that forces are applied low and somewhat
forwards on the frame. The disadvantages are that force is only applied
to one chainstay, and the trailer hitch has to have a substantial bend
in it to prevent striking the rear tire during right hand turns.

2) Symmetrical rear axle mount. Like the Bob Yak. A subframe mounts to
both sides of the rear axle and the trailer mounts to the subframe at a
point in line with the center of the bike, but behind the rear tire.
The advantage is that the force is applied equally to both chainstays.
The disadvantage is that sideways force is applied behind the rear
wheel, which gives more torque on the frame. You also have to worry
about holding up the hitch point if the trailer needs to stay upright
when the front bike leans (which the Yak doesn't need to do).

3) Seatpost mount. Like most trail-a-bikes. A clamp goes onto the seat
tube. The seat tube should be fairly strong and is in line with the
center of the bike, but the attachment point is too high and excessive
force applied during braking could push the rear end off the ground.

4) Bottom bracket mount. Only ever seen on the defunct Chariot
Sidecarrier. From a pure physics point of view, this might be the best,
as external forces are applied quite low and in the center of the frame.
Unfortunately, the practical aspects of trying to connect that hitch to
a trailer are pure hell and it really only works when the trailer is
beside the bike (as in the Sidecarrier).

Any comments or insight into which of these methods would work best for
a fairly heavy duty application? I think #3 is out for physics reasons
and #4 is out for construction reasons. I suspect #1 is the easiest to
build, but that #2 might be a little stronger. Then again, #2 might
exert more torque on the bike frame. If you have real world experience
you can share, that might be even better. Thanks.


I have no real world experience, only gut feel after some thought. I
would like to build a single wheel trailer, like a Bob design. My gut
feel tells me this is the best approach. I have yet to construct or
test anything though. I think a slightly longer draw bar might be
beneficial, to put more weight over the trailer wheel and less on the
tow point.

Interested in how you go.


If you want more weight on the wheel without a long draw bar, consider
something like this http://www.extrawheel.com/
  #13  
Old March 4th 14, 03:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Trailer hitches

In article ,
wrote:

There's a Class 4 on muh truck's stern. When I begin thinking abt towing I am
lost even to the wording/nomenclature.

I would do the usual find significant words/phrases then search those terms

also...
http://goo.gl/0N3KGz

you see I get right off hand no further than 'joint' having nutting todo with
Colorado but general deconstruction.

as for pro's and con's...there in the search terms and related blogs....I'll
try 'towing for fun' next....wheeeeee....

often a 'no comment no discuss' zone arises from: nothing to say, no way to
say it either from energy, subject or no language skills. Where was Earth
before Sacko and Vanzotti did their NPR work ?

but could be at the cycle level there's not much difference to report.

Tho I would deafinitly go with the bent-rerod-in-hole design...on permanent
display at MOMA...and other select locations...the release when crashing has
merit with exception you then need to look for it !


Release when crashing may have less merit when your spouse is in the
trailer and it accidentally lets loose :-)

have yawl been down the hill ? I found that at the duhduh California 400 ???

YES !!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.google.com/#q=towing+funny+quotes

  #14  
Old March 4th 14, 05:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Trailer hitches

On Monday, March 3, 2014 10:24:54 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
I'm thinking of this as a way to
introduce my wife to bike touring...


Maybe you've already explained this, but: Is there a reason you don't just
use a tandem?

- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old March 4th 14, 02:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default Trailer hitches

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, March 3, 2014 10:24:54 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
I'm thinking of this as a way to
introduce my wife to bike touring...


Maybe you've already explained this, but: Is there a reason you don't just
use a tandem?

- Frank Krygowski


Pigheadedness, mostly. Plus, I think she would be more comfortable on a
bent (and I'm not ready to shell out the cash for a Hase Pino).
  #16  
Old March 4th 14, 06:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Trailer hitches

Mrs Barone ride this ?

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...DBRONCOvs3.jpg
  #17  
Old March 5th 14, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default Trailer hitches

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:24:54 -0800, Ralph Barone
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Monday, March 3, 2014 12:02:31 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:


Any comments or insight into which of these methods would work best for
a fairly heavy duty application? I think #3 is out for physics reasons
and #4 is out for construction reasons. I suspect #1 is the easiest to
build, but that #2 might be a little stronger. Then again, #2 might
exert more torque on the bike frame. If you have real world experience
you can share, that might be even better. Thanks.


I have (significant) experience only with the left side rear axle hitch
scheme,
your #1. It seems to have become the most common for two wheel trailers. I
haven't used any 200 pound, self-powered trailer, but I've ridden a few
hundred
miles with luggage towed behind a Bike Friday. I've had no significant
problems.
Neither has my good friend who used that scheme to haul his large dog for
many,
many hundreds of miles.


Well, that's one good data point. I'm thinking of this as a way to
introduce my wife to bike touring, so I don't want to be wrestling with
the bike for hours on end. I recall when my daughter was still on her
Trail-a-bike, I would come back from rides with sore arms from
counteracting the torque from my daughter rocking back and forth on the
seat.

I don't think you'll have a problem due to the asymmetry of the hitch. Yes,
in
the top view, you'll see a counterclockwise torque when the trailer is being
towed, and a clockwise one when the powered trailer is pushing the bike. But
the moment arm is small, and the necessary resisting lateral force from the
front tire should be very small. I certainly never noticed any instability
when braking my bike+trailer on a steep downhill, and that situation is
similar to your "powered trailer" mode.


Asymmetry doesn't bother me a lot on #1 because you may as well offset
the tongue anyway so the force is applied inline with the center line of
the bike. My concerns with #1 are more that stresses are being applied
to only one chainstay. I suppose if the rear QR is tight enough, some
of the force should get transferred through the axle to the right-hand
chainstay.

Further thoughts on scheme #3, the seatpost mount: It requires a lot more
metal for the tongue, and for the weights you're describing, might give
an opportunity for some serious flexing. It will be a bigger trailer overall,
perhaps complicating storing and transporting.

There's a modified version of your #2 that's been used, essentially a
stretched
tetrahedron supporting a hitch point just behind the bottom of the rear
fender. Picture an extra pair of stays, roughly parallel to the chainstays
and extending from the rear dropouts to a dummy rear axle behind the fender.
Now run a pair of stays from the seatpost or seat cluster down to that dummy
rear axle, to keep it at the proper height. That's sketched in the
"Cycling with Love" chapter of _Effective Cycling_, towing a kid's bike.
With your trailer, the hitch could be a ball & socket. But I don't see any
great advantage over the left-side axle hitch.


I've got a design sketched up that uses an MTB front fork clamped into
the rear QR, plus some aircraft cable going up over the seatpost to
build your stretched tetrahedron. As long as the hitch point doesn't
flip upwards, it should be stable.

I've got a couple other books with trailer designs that I could describe.
But I think you're well beyond due diligence in examining prior art. By
this stage, the crusty old guy who taught me machine shop techniques would
be yelling "Just do it!"

(That was way before Nike said that, BTW. He should have copyrighted it.)


I tend to be of the "Measure twice, cut once, f#$k it up anyway" school,
so I try to design things a little more thoroughly before I start
building.

- Frank Krygowski

I made a hitch using quick-connect air connector. The male end is on
a "universal joint" at the rear axle and the socket is on the trailer
hitch. I pull a converted Burley kid hauler with an aluminum box and 3
12 volt batteries behind my e-bike for long range.
  #18  
Old March 5th 14, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Trailer hitches

I made a hitch using quick-connect air connector. The male end is on

a "universal joint" at the rear axle and the socket is on the trailer

hitch. I pull a converted Burley kid hauler with an aluminum box and 3

12 volt batteries behind my e-bike for long range.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


photo ?




  #19  
Old March 5th 14, 02:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default Trailer hitches

wrote:
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:24:54 -0800, Ralph Barone
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Monday, March 3, 2014 12:02:31 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:


Any comments or insight into which of these methods would work best for
a fairly heavy duty application? I think #3 is out for physics reasons
and #4 is out for construction reasons. I suspect #1 is the easiest to
build, but that #2 might be a little stronger. Then again, #2 might
exert more torque on the bike frame. If you have real world experience
you can share, that might be even better. Thanks.

I have (significant) experience only with the left side rear axle hitch
scheme,
your #1. It seems to have become the most common for two wheel trailers. I
haven't used any 200 pound, self-powered trailer, but I've ridden a few
hundred
miles with luggage towed behind a Bike Friday. I've had no significant
problems.
Neither has my good friend who used that scheme to haul his large dog for
many,
many hundreds of miles.


Well, that's one good data point. I'm thinking of this as a way to
introduce my wife to bike touring, so I don't want to be wrestling with
the bike for hours on end. I recall when my daughter was still on her
Trail-a-bike, I would come back from rides with sore arms from
counteracting the torque from my daughter rocking back and forth on the
seat.

I don't think you'll have a problem due to the asymmetry of the hitch. Yes,
in
the top view, you'll see a counterclockwise torque when the trailer is being
towed, and a clockwise one when the powered trailer is pushing the bike. But
the moment arm is small, and the necessary resisting lateral force from the
front tire should be very small. I certainly never noticed any instability
when braking my bike+trailer on a steep downhill, and that situation is
similar to your "powered trailer" mode.


Asymmetry doesn't bother me a lot on #1 because you may as well offset
the tongue anyway so the force is applied inline with the center line of
the bike. My concerns with #1 are more that stresses are being applied
to only one chainstay. I suppose if the rear QR is tight enough, some
of the force should get transferred through the axle to the right-hand
chainstay.

Further thoughts on scheme #3, the seatpost mount: It requires a lot more
metal for the tongue, and for the weights you're describing, might give
an opportunity for some serious flexing. It will be a bigger trailer overall,
perhaps complicating storing and transporting.

There's a modified version of your #2 that's been used, essentially a
stretched
tetrahedron supporting a hitch point just behind the bottom of the rear
fender. Picture an extra pair of stays, roughly parallel to the chainstays
and extending from the rear dropouts to a dummy rear axle behind the fender.
Now run a pair of stays from the seatpost or seat cluster down to that dummy
rear axle, to keep it at the proper height. That's sketched in the
"Cycling with Love" chapter of _Effective Cycling_, towing a kid's bike.
With your trailer, the hitch could be a ball & socket. But I don't see any
great advantage over the left-side axle hitch.


I've got a design sketched up that uses an MTB front fork clamped into
the rear QR, plus some aircraft cable going up over the seatpost to
build your stretched tetrahedron. As long as the hitch point doesn't
flip upwards, it should be stable.

I've got a couple other books with trailer designs that I could describe.
But I think you're well beyond due diligence in examining prior art. By
this stage, the crusty old guy who taught me machine shop techniques would
be yelling "Just do it!"

(That was way before Nike said that, BTW. He should have copyrighted it.)


I tend to be of the "Measure twice, cut once, f#$k it up anyway" school,
so I try to design things a little more thoroughly before I start
building.

- Frank Krygowski

I made a hitch using quick-connect air connector. The male end is on
a "universal joint" at the rear axle and the socket is on the trailer
hitch. I pull a converted Burley kid hauler with an aluminum box and 3
12 volt batteries behind my e-bike for long range.


I've avoided considering those connectors because I wasn't sure that I
could find any engineering data for pullout strength. I'd be willing to
accept losing a trailer full of luggage, but not one holding my wife.
  #20  
Old March 5th 14, 02:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default Trailer hitches

wrote:
Mrs Barone ride this ?

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...DBRONCOvs3.jpg


Too much macho. Not enough comfy. :-)
 




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