Everybody is Out

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 15:22:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Oh, yes. Chemicals!
Like COOH and H2O and the dread O2, right? Killers all

COOH as in a carboxyl ion? Methinks you might mean CO2 as in carbon
dioxide, the dreaded gas that produces global warming and soda water
bubbles. Also, CO2 and O2 are both gases, not chemicals. I guess you
could call H20 (dihydrogen monoxide) a chemical, but it seem a little
odd:
https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 3/23/2020 3:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 16:22:22 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/23/2020 2:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 15:47:39 UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:59:17 -0700, sms
wrote:

Remember to think outside the box when buying stuff like bleach and
alcohol. Stores may be out of bleach but there is no shortage of pool
chlorine which is the same thing, just more highly concentrated. I
bought some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol at an electronics store, and it's
better to use the higher concentration because you can use more aloe
vera and it's less watery.

NO, NO, NO! Pool chlorine is HCl (Hydrochrloric Acid) and is not the
same as bleach NaClO (Sodium hypochlorite). These are very different
chemicals. If you wash your countertops or furniture with even dilute
HCl, you're going to wreck the finish, your hands, or both. Neither
of these is a suitable substitute for alcohol or ethenol in
electronics. I don't know where you found this wrong and dangerous
information, but I suggest you go back to the source and tell them its
wrong before someone gets hurt..

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

https://www.pooldone.com/bleach-vs-c...ts-difference/

"Both chlorine and bleach contain calcium hypochlorite chlorine , which are disinfecting materials. There is about 5.25% chlorine content in bleach, while the remaining percentage is water and salt to keep the bleach in a liquid state.

Whereas for chlorine, it contains calcium hypochlorite chlorine at around a 65% strength, made of solid instead of any other matter. Chlorine also contains more inert ingredients to add power into disinfecting pools."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/07...ning-products/

"Sodium hypochlorite is a solid white powder, but is more commonly used dissolved in water. Solutions of sodium hypochlorite are commonly referred to as bleach, although household bleach also contains small amounts of several other compounds, including sodium hydroxide and calcium hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite generally makes up 3-8% of the volume; dissolved in water, it has a strongly alkaline pH, which can irritate the skin. The idea of strong acids causing burns is common knowledge, but in fact, strong alkalis can be just as dangerous, and concentrated bleach is at a high enough pH to cause burns to the skin on contact.

Sodium hypochlorite dissolved in water also forms hypochlorous acid, HOCl, a weak acid but strong oxidising agent which is responsible for bleach’s bleaching effect. Hypochlorous acid can react with dyes in clothes, breaking bonds and preventing the molecule from absorbing visible light. It also has antimicrobial activity, as it can react with proteins and DNA of bacteria, as well as breaking down their cell membranes. A very low concentration of hypochlorous acid is required to achieve this effect.

You’re probably aware that it’s common advice not to mix household cleaning products, due to the potentially dangerous reactions that can take place. As an example, some toilet cleaners may contain hydrochloric acid. If these are mixed with bleach, it can react with sodium hypochlorite, and form toxic chlorine gas. Even mixing small amounts of these cleaners can result in the production of a volume of chlorine gas, a lung irritant, above safe levels. Ammonia containing cleaning products can also react with bleach to produce toxic chloroamines."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be very careful using chemicals.

Oh, yes. Chemicals!
Like COOH and H2O and the dread O2, right? Killers all


HAH, HAH!

Actually, under the right conditions it can take very little H2o to kill a person. LOL

In USA, 3500+ drown not involving boats, another 300+ in (or
maybe not actually in!) boats:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Fra...dourdoigne.htm

The occasional dead hyponatremic athlete gets all the
headlines but water, a dangerous chemical, kills every day.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/23/2020 3:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 15:22:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Oh, yes. Chemicals!
Like COOH and H2O and the dread O2, right? Killers all

COOH as in a carboxyl ion? Methinks you might mean CO2 as in carbon
dioxide, the dreaded gas that produces global warming and soda water
bubbles. Also, CO2 and O2 are both gases, not chemicals. I guess you
could call H20 (dihydrogen monoxide) a chemical, but it seem a little
odd:
https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Thank you; I was wrong.

Ethanol : CH3CH2OH

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:53:35 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:16:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:12:18 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:19:05 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

Watch for fever. The advice I've seen is that if you see COVID
symptoms, you should curtail vigorous exercise which might push it
deeper into your lungs, though I grant that's mostly speculative.
Mark J.

Also, watch out for loss of sense of smell and taste:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html
It's only in about 30% of confirmed cases, but it might be a useful
indicator.

Man's DNA makes everyone unique and generally symptoms very quite a bit from individual to individual.

Very true. Here's a good video on the initial symptoms and some
numbers:

"What Coronavirus Symptoms Look Like, Day By Day"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOJqHPfG7pA

I had two PEs following a DVT resulting from an ankle surgery (fractured skiing), the second PE following early termination of anticoagulants after the first. I can say based on personal knowledge that not being able to breathe sucks. It is exactly the way I don't want to go out. My second PE was a giant saddle embolus with a really high mortality rate, and I chalk-up my survival to cycling and otherwise good lung function -- and heparin. Drugs and cycling will keep you alive -- ask any TdF rider.

BTW, getting a contrast chest CT is an experience with the whirring apparatus, and the dual cylinders pushing contrast in your veins which, for some reason, concludes with the sensation of having a hot poker in your ass. You want to avoid that, or pay extra for it (depending on who you are). At least I didn't get a ventilator or ECMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

On my next ride, I'm wearing my Corona jersey. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cNgAA...gj~/s-l300.jpg One of my few Eurotrash jerseys.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/23/2020 4:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/23/2020 3:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 16:22:22 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/23/2020 2:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 15:47:39 UTC-4, Jeff
Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:59:17 -0700, sms

wrote:

Remember to think outside the box when buying stuff
like bleach and
alcohol. Stores may be out of bleach but there is no
shortage of pool
chlorine which is the same thing, just more highly
concentrated. I
bought some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol at an electronics
store, and it's
better to use the higher concentration because you can
use more aloe
vera and it's less watery.

NO, NO, NO! Pool chlorine is HCl (Hydrochrloric Acid)
and is not the
same as bleach NaClO (Sodium hypochlorite). These are
very different
chemicals. If you wash your countertops or furniture
with even dilute
HCl, you're going to wreck the finish, your hands, or
both. Neither
of these is a suitable substitute for alcohol or
ethenol in
electronics. I don't know where you found this wrong
and dangerous
information, but I suggest you go back to the source
and tell them its
wrong before someone gets hurt..

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

https://www.pooldone.com/bleach-vs-c...ts-difference/


"Both chlorine and bleach contain calcium hypochlorite
chlorine , which are disinfecting materials. There is
about 5.25% chlorine content in bleach, while the
remaining percentage is water and salt to keep the
bleach in a liquid state.

Whereas for chlorine, it contains calcium hypochlorite
chlorine at around a 65% strength, made of solid instead
of any other matter. Chlorine also contains more inert
ingredients to add power into disinfecting pools."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/07...ning-products/


"Sodium hypochlorite is a solid white powder, but is
more commonly used dissolved in water. Solutions of
sodium hypochlorite are commonly referred to as bleach,
although household bleach also contains small amounts of
several other compounds, including sodium hydroxide and
calcium hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite generally
makes up 3-8% of the volume; dissolved in water, it has
a strongly alkaline pH, which can irritate the skin. The
idea of strong acids causing burns is common knowledge,
but in fact, strong alkalis can be just as dangerous,
and concentrated bleach is at a high enough pH to cause
burns to the skin on contact.

Sodium hypochlorite dissolved in water also forms
hypochlorous acid, HOCl, a weak acid but strong
oxidising agent which is responsible for bleach’s
bleaching effect. Hypochlorous acid can react with dyes
in clothes, breaking bonds and preventing the molecule
from absorbing visible light. It also has antimicrobial
activity, as it can react with proteins and DNA of
bacteria, as well as breaking down their cell membranes.
A very low concentration of hypochlorous acid is
required to achieve this effect.

You’re probably aware that it’s common
advice not to mix household cleaning products, due to
the potentially dangerous reactions that can take place.
As an example, some toilet cleaners may contain
hydrochloric acid. If these are mixed with bleach, it
can react with sodium hypochlorite, and form toxic
chlorine gas. Even mixing small amounts of these
cleaners can result in the production of a volume of
chlorine gas, a lung irritant, above safe levels.
Ammonia containing cleaning products can also react with
bleach to produce toxic chloroamines."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Be very careful using chemicals.

Oh, yes. Chemicals!
Like COOH and H2O and the dread O2, right? Killers all


HAH, HAH!

Actually, under the right conditions it can take very
little H2o to kill a person. LOL

In USA, 3500+ drown not involving boats, another 300+ in (or
maybe not actually in!) boats:

http://www.all_f**ked_up.com


The occasional dead hyponatremic athlete gets all the
headlines but water, a dangerous chemical, kills every day.


drat. Pasted link from a different conversation.
Should have been:

https://www.colinshope.org/water-saf...ng-statistics/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:25:33 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/23/2020 4:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/23/2020 3:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 16:22:22 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/23/2020 2:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 23 March 2020 15:47:39 UTC-4, Jeff
Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:59:17 -0700, sms

wrote:

Remember to think outside the box when buying stuff
like bleach and
alcohol. Stores may be out of bleach but there is no
shortage of pool
chlorine which is the same thing, just more highly
concentrated. I
bought some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol at an electronics
store, and it's
better to use the higher concentration because you can
use more aloe
vera and it's less watery.

NO, NO, NO! Pool chlorine is HCl (Hydrochrloric Acid)
and is not the
same as bleach NaClO (Sodium hypochlorite). These are
very different
chemicals. If you wash your countertops or furniture
with even dilute
HCl, you're going to wreck the finish, your hands, or
both. Neither
of these is a suitable substitute for alcohol or
ethenol in
electronics. I don't know where you found this wrong
and dangerous
information, but I suggest you go back to the source
and tell them its
wrong before someone gets hurt..

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

https://www.pooldone.com/bleach-vs-c...ts-difference/


"Both chlorine and bleach contain calcium hypochlorite
chlorine , which are disinfecting materials. There is
about 5.25% chlorine content in bleach, while the
remaining percentage is water and salt to keep the
bleach in a liquid state.

Whereas for chlorine, it contains calcium hypochlorite
chlorine at around a 65% strength, made of solid instead
of any other matter. Chlorine also contains more inert
ingredients to add power into disinfecting pools."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/07...ning-products/


"Sodium hypochlorite is a solid white powder, but is
more commonly used dissolved in water. Solutions of
sodium hypochlorite are commonly referred to as bleach,
although household bleach also contains small amounts of
several other compounds, including sodium hydroxide and
calcium hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite generally
makes up 3-8% of the volume; dissolved in water, it has
a strongly alkaline pH, which can irritate the skin. The
idea of strong acids causing burns is common knowledge,
but in fact, strong alkalis can be just as dangerous,
and concentrated bleach is at a high enough pH to cause
burns to the skin on contact.

Sodium hypochlorite dissolved in water also forms
hypochlorous acid, HOCl, a weak acid but strong
oxidising agent which is responsible for bleach’s
bleaching effect. Hypochlorous acid can react with dyes
in clothes, breaking bonds and preventing the molecule
from absorbing visible light. It also has antimicrobial
activity, as it can react with proteins and DNA of
bacteria, as well as breaking down their cell membranes.
A very low concentration of hypochlorous acid is
required to achieve this effect.

You’re probably aware that it’s common
advice not to mix household cleaning products, due to
the potentially dangerous reactions that can take place.
As an example, some toilet cleaners may contain
hydrochloric acid. If these are mixed with bleach, it
can react with sodium hypochlorite, and form toxic
chlorine gas. Even mixing small amounts of these
cleaners can result in the production of a volume of
chlorine gas, a lung irritant, above safe levels.
Ammonia containing cleaning products can also react with
bleach to produce toxic chloroamines."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Be very careful using chemicals.

Oh, yes. Chemicals!
Like COOH and H2O and the dread O2, right? Killers all


HAH, HAH!

Actually, under the right conditions it can take very
little H2o to kill a person. LOL

In USA, 3500+ drown not involving boats, another 300+ in (or
maybe not actually in!) boats:

http://www.all_f**ked_up.com


The occasional dead hyponatremic athlete gets all the
headlines but water, a dangerous chemical, kills every day.


drat. Pasted link from a different conversation.
Should have been:

https://www.colinshope.org/water-saf...ng-statistics/

https://dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html
Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills
uncounted thousands of people every year.

Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but
the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged
exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of
DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and
possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte
imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means
certain death.

Dihydrogen monoxide is also known as hydric acid, and is the major
component of acid rain, contributes to the Greenhouse Effect,
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape, accelerates
corrosion and rusting of many metals, may cause electrical failures
and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes, has been found in
excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:20:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Hydrochloric Acid Use in Home Pools
https://sensorex.com/blog/2019/09/17/hydrochloric-acid-home-pools/
Both bleach and hydrochloric acid are commonly referred to as "pool
chlorine".

Thanks for clearing that up, otherwise, since we do not have a pool, i'd
have to break the demanded social isolation requirements here and visit
either of the neighbours who do have a pool.

I'm not sure if bleach is a good replacement for alchohol in
hand sanitizer,

It is. The medical advice here on hand sanitation was;
best is 20 seconds of washing with soap(destroys lipid bonds in virus),
second is bleach, contain odium hypochorite,
and 66% ethanlhand sanitiser wll worrk as well.

The only reason for hand sanitizer really is convenience as it self dries.

but I'm very sure that hydrochloric acid is a really bad
idea for hand sanitizer.

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:24:08 -0700, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Monday, 23 March 2020 13:19:06 UTC-4, Mark J. wrote:

Watch for fever. The advice I've seen is that if you see COVID
symptoms, you should curtail vigorous exercise which might push it
deeper into your lungs, though I grant that's mostly speculative.

Mark J.

Apparently some people have caught this virus and NEVER had the fever.

Well, it is a flu, and like the common flus, the effect on many people
can vary.
BTW, it was said last night(medical doctor),that 85% of the elderly that
get covid-19 do recover, but the real problem is those that get it may
require medical intervention, which could be in short supply.

The other thing I've noticed is that the recovery figures are slow and it
is taking a long time for people to be counted as recovered.

It seems that for some people,of any age, this can be an extremely bad
flu event. Recovery in 9 days seems to be optimistic.


There are so many conflicting reports even from the health experts that
i's hard to know what's really going on.

So much of the news has really turned to opinion where the hands and
mouth just gabble to fill the pages. contenthas become one factoid and
rest waffle.

Take care people and cheers

snip?

Very true. Here's a good video on the initial symptoms and some
numbers:

"What Coronavirus Symptoms Look Like, Day By Day"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOJqHPfG7pA

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks for this link, Jeff.
As I like them...fairly short, to the point.
pH

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:16:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
It's the last beautiful day before we go into a streak of rain, and its nuts cutting through MUPs or parks. People seem to be outside a lot more during the COVID apocalypse -- so much so that the Governor has instructed people not to crowd into the parks.
snip

Lots of people out and about in Santa Cruz/Aptos as well. I think I saw another Rohloff hub in the wild....drool, drool. I was driving, but don't think it was a hub motor. Saw no evidence of a battery bank anywhere.

I'm seeing a *lot* of battery assist bikes around here, now. Pure or not, I think it's a good thing that people are out there on bikes.
Families out recreating together is a good thing. Hopefully that too will not soon become verboten. (I'm uneasy how quickly we all acquiesce to believing doing as we're told by our benevolent leaders. Makes it easy to see how past evils happened, doesn't it.)

the only ebike/kit I would consider would have to have the throttle-only option. I don't like being "told" I have to pedal to have motor assist. I want it whenever I feel like it if I want it at all. (Curmudgeon alert.)

pH in Aptos


-- Jay Beattie.