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#71
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John Forester Speaks
On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:
snip Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going 35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH. Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in California. I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want, or will accept. It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons. There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins? Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables, sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards, etc. can all be used. |
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#72
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John Forester Speaks
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:10:05 -0700, sms
wrote: On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote: snip Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going 35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH. Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in California. I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want, or will accept. It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons. There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins? Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables, sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards, etc. can all be used. I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't be bothered to enforce it?" I ask as some states, New Hampshire comes to mind, some years ago, spent a number of years of the State Assembly's time in reviewing each and every state law and discarding those that were no longer applicable, or no longer enforced. -- cheers, John B. |
#73
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John Forester Speaks
Am 10.10.2019 um 16:10 schrieb sms:
On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote: snip Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going 35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH. Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in California. There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins? From my understanding, a deputy focussing on speeding violations collects significantly more in fines than the costs (and in Europe, speeding violations can also be enforced by mobile traffic cameras without permanent supervision). The financial challenge starts where the organization having to pay for the enforcement is not the organization receiving (parts of) the fines. This problem we have in Germany with tax collection: the states have to pay for the tax controllers but the rich states in the South have to give away a fair part of their surplus to poorer states, so they relax on tax collection as an inofficial "benefit to local businesses". |
#74
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John Forester Speaks
On 10/10/2019 3:11 PM, John B. wrote:
snip I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't be bothered to enforce it?" Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by it even if enforcement is sporadic or non-existent. But sometimes it takes a law to get people to understand why something is a good idea. |
#75
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John Forester Speaks
On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 7:10:12 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote: snip Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going 35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH. Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in California. I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want, or will accept. It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons. There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins? Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables, sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards, etc. can all be used. I went on a ride yesterday and the high winds caused PG&E to shut off the power. There was at least one cop at every single major intersection over a 40 miles ride. Strange that they didn't seem to have any shortage of cops. |
#76
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John Forester Speaks
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:53:10 -0700, sms
wrote: On 10/10/2019 3:11 PM, John B. wrote: snip I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't be bothered to enforce it?" Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by it even if enforcement is sporadic or non-existent. But sometimes it takes a law to get people to understand why something is a good idea. I believe that you are rationalizing the question. You say, for example "Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by it even if enforcement is sporadic or non-existent" yet you have laws against drug use, for example, that people ignore even when enforced and certainly not using something that will harm you makes sense. -- cheers, John B. |
#77
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John Forester Speaks
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512 sms wrote: On 10/8/2019 11:51 PM, Lars Lehtonen wrote: Creekside trails scare the **** out of me, as here in California there are people living on them 24/7, and they are a police-free-zone. 1. The police do patrol them. They don't. Even if there is a place where they do, they're not patrolling outside of daylight hours. Notably, people need to ride in the dark to commute home for half the year. 2. Once a trail is open to the public the encampments tend to disappear. This is exactly opposite to reality. Here is what Orange County looked like last year: https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/01/see-before-and-after-photos-of-the-santa-ana-river-trail-with-homeless-people-gone-and-trash-cleaned-up/ https://tinyurl.com/y2xg2l2q LA River today: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/multimedia/homeless-Los-Angeles-bike-path-streets-of-shame-la-river-511603552.html https://tinyurl.com/y67kt63u - --- Lars Lehtonen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEvvKqsf7DSishcEgngTfUdOvLBPIFAl2lrH YACgkQgTfUdOvL BPKpigf+MPGpnT/n85Vua1sYZG3ESHhM8pH+3mNsxauXXIJ5pWxOe6IQsmHKmWhx VeHVOB6NZfNa0YowTIy+0JrTvWpVCnTr75mqhHV6sMTNdIbrIc EKDpH+36LTQh+k EQAKVZ+YDZm3tW1huuFkGp8jvLtt5sbPkNCirjAcTQv3tdahml mNJGR7C1wd7VfJ ngaSNH0Qf3h6bMjDaT0vsdXpWrTYMhYWbEi8CRSxIUKEgK4N5+ iCBf/nZQpnhibj N6ypMl0F7M3HuAk2eg+ii5hwtmTjV5j0rolcFgQSHO1Vetn5aQ D3L3NGRjXoQb8v 8eo/S3IEpJbVI5LAJ5oNhJZzP1WFPA== =9sMt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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